The alt right - Mod Warning in OP

AnGaelach wrote: »

Racism exists. Racism doesn't exist as any kind of a major factor in Ireland. I've already cleared up what I was discussing, so instead of being a smart ass, perhaps you could provide some sort of proof?

I didn't say it was a major factor; that's a straw man that you introduced.

Of course not, racism isn't the first topic that comes to mind when I see a black person.

Not to your mind, certainly. And I guess that's the important thing.

AnGaelach

oscarBravo wrote: »

I didn't say it was a major factor; that's a straw man that you introduced.

You said I was privileged in that I didn't encounter racism. Privilege is having a special advantage.

So, by extension of your assertion, you believe racism to be of significant enough impact on their lives to have given me an advantage. I've asked you to justify that claim with evidence, which you still haven't done.

oscarBravo wrote: »

Not to your mind, certainly. And I guess that's the important thing.

You might think of racism when you see a black person, but I don't, and I daresay most people don't.

Now, would you kindly provide some kind of evidence that racism is a factor here, or will you instead stop calling me privileged for being white?

oscarBravo wrote: »

Have you ever had a conversation with a black person about racism in Ireland?

AnGaelach wrote: »

You might think of racism when you see a black person...

The straw men are piling up thick and fast.

You don't believe racism is a problem in Ireland. You have never had a conversation about racism in Ireland with the very people who actually encounter racism, but that's OK, because - since racism isn't a problem for you, a white person, racism isn't a problem.

Now, would you kindly provide some kind of evidence that racism is a factor here, or will you instead stop calling me privileged for being white?

Given that you don't consider domestic violence a problem (I'm guessing you've never been a victim of domestic violence), I doubt that you'd consider racism a problem before you saw a black man hanging from a tree. There's none so blind as them that will not see.

AnGaelach

oscarBravo wrote: »

You don't believe racism is a problem in Ireland. You have never had a conversation about racism in Ireland with the very people who actually encounter racism, but that's OK, because - since racism isn't a problem for you, a white person, racism isn't a problem.

Except when an Old Englishman is throwing a pint at me and hurling abuse at me for being Irish. Or was that not racist?

oscarBravo wrote: »

Given that you don't consider domestic violence a problem (I'm guessing you've never been a victim of domestic violence)

You really shouldn't make guesses about people. My father was an alcoholic and a coke addict.

Or does that not count because I'm not a woman, or that I don't think my personal experiences to be grounds for enacting policy?

oscarBravo wrote: »

I doubt that you'd consider racism a problem before you saw a black man hanging from a tree. There's none so blind as them that will not see.

oscarBravo wrote:

The straw men are piling up thick and fast.

You're quite a nasty little man, aren't you? For all your high horse parading and moral quibbling, you're a nasty piece of work who enjoys nothing more than playing the victim card - even when he isn't the victim. You can't bring any substantive facts to the table and instead attack my character (a simple search of my post history would've yielded the nugget that my relationship with my father was not a nice one).

AnGaelach wrote: »

Except when an Old Englishman is throwing a pint at me and hurling abuse at me for being Irish. Or was that not racist?

Fine. Racism has been a problem for you.

It seems there are two ways of dealing with negative experiences in life: you can either decide "well, I've had some crap in my life, therefore nobody has it any worse than me, so nobody has a right to whine about all the crap in their life", or you can can decide "I'll do everything in my power to make sure nobody has to put up with that crap". It's clear where you've firmly set up camp.

I've been the victim of homophobia in the past. The irony is, I'm not even gay - but some people decided I was, and punished me for it. Does that mean that homophobia isn't a problem, just because I, a straight person, have had fleeting experience of it? The difference between us is that I'm not going to pretend I'm not privileged in my heterosexuality just because I've been a victim of homophobic bullying at some time in my past.

You really shouldn't make guesses about people. My father was an alcoholic and a coke addict.

Or does that not count because I'm not a woman, or that I don't think my personal experiences to be grounds for enacting policy?

I've been a victim of physical and emotional abuse myself. That makes me look at sixteen thousand reports of domestic violence and say "fifty incidences of domestic abuse a day is fifty too many".

So, yes: I think your personal experiences are grounds for enacting policy, as are mine, as are those of every victim of misogyny, racism and whatever other symptoms there are of people thinking that it's OK to treat other people as less than them.

You're quite a nasty little man, aren't you? For all your high horse parading and moral quibbling, you're a nasty piece of work who enjoys nothing more than playing the victim card - even when he isn't the victim.

How many "victim points" do I need before I can play a "victim card"?

Stop talking in alt-right soundbites, they're pathetic. Having experienced hardship doesn't confer a god-given right to be a dick to other people with problems.

The whole "prove that racism is a problem" schtick is like the whole "prove global warming is man-made" bolloxology. It's premised on the idea that you can set your own personal criteria for what's good enough to be considered true and ignore anything that doesn't fit your preconceived ideas.

You can't bring any substantive facts to the table and instead attack my character (a simple search of my post history would've yielded the nugget that my relationship with my father was not a nice one).

This isn't about you, no matter how hard you try to make it so. The question of whether or not racism is a problem in Ireland doesn't revolve around proving it to your personal satisfaction, and the fact that you had a ****ty relationship with your father doesn't make domestic violence in this country not a problem.

Stop framing every question in terms of your own worldview. Maybe you got racially abused in the past; that doesn't lessen the racial abuse that some people get every single frigging day - the sort of racial abuse you might find out about if you stopped using stupid phrases like "victim card" and actually talked to people about their experience of racism. And if you ever do decide to do so, don't be a dick about it and try to lessen their experience by comparing it to yours. Your bad experiences don't make other people's bad experiences OK.

K-9

Mod:
Attack the post, not the poster please. If you can't reply without digs at other, don't bother replying then.

And a Happy, peaceful and civil Christmas to everybody.

fash

oscarBravo wrote: »

Well, yeah, that's not racism, that's basic logic. ...and there speaks the voice of privilege. "I'm unaware of racism, therefore racism isn't a problem."

My wife is a "person of colour" - she and her family and other friends of ours find Ireland one of the least racist place they've ever been in. I've been hanging around with her/them for a good few years - and also have seen nothing. As a result, I would have a certain amount of skepticism as regards significant racism. Where is it a problem and what evidence is there for it?

http://www.thejournal.ie/racism-enar-ireland-2-2905863-Aug2016/

PopePalpatine

The "Deploraball" organised by alt-rightists has collapsed into a ****-flinging, dick-waving mess. Somebody must have forgotten the "tendies". :rolleyes:

Actually it's been pretty funny watching Alt-LITE Cernovich/Milo/ etc try and keep their new found income source intact, lol. They are getting roasted non-stop by real Alt-rightists and it's great entertainment :-)

Brian?

Amazingfun wrote: »

Actually it's been pretty funny watching Alt-LITE Cernovich/Milo/ etc try and keep their new found income source intact, lol. They are getting roasted non-stop by real Alt-rightists and it's great entertainment :-)

So here we have it at last. The white supremacists are the real alt right, but that's not really a surprise.

I'm glad you find anti Semitism and book burning "great entertainment", I find it disgusting.

Brian?

fash wrote: »

My wife is a "person of colour" - she and her family and other friends of ours find Ireland one of the least racist place they've ever been in. I've been hanging around with her/them for a good few years - and also have seen nothing. As a result, I would have a certain amount of skepticism as regards significant racism. Where is it a problem and what evidence is there for it?

I'm not a "person of colour" and I've seen plenty of racist incidents over the years. Most actually happen behind the backs of the people who are being discriminated against.

fash

oscarBravo wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/racism-enar-ireland-2-2905863-Aug2016/

Thanks for the quick response.

From my reading of ENAR's report, and the number and quality of the examples give , racism appears to be about 0.1% of school bullying -in terms of numbers (assuming ENAR's numbers and quality of examples are roughly representative) but generally of lower impact than everyday bullying (bullying consisting of mostly persistent behaviour, significant, physical violence and resulting in the occasional suicide of the victims).

I.e. for my children, I should far more concerned about school bullying (by a factor of 1000) than about racism- is that correct?

fash wrote: »

Thanks for the quick response.

From my reading of ENAR's report, and the number and quality of the examples give , racism appears to be about 0.1% of school bullying -in terms of numbers (assuming ENAR's numbers and quality of examples are roughly representative) but generally of lower impact than everyday bullying (bullying consisting of mostly persistent behaviour, significant, physical violence and resulting in the occasional suicide of the victims).

I.e. for my children, I should far more concerned about school bullying (by a factor of 1000) than about racism- is that correct?

You can decide to prioritise your concerns in any way that makes sense to you.

The discussion of whether or not racism is a "major" problem (and, for perspective on that one, apparently domestic violence isn't a "major" problem) isn't one I introduced or care to pursue.

Brian? wrote: »

So here we have it at last. The white supremacists are the real alt right, but that's not really a surprise.

I'm glad you find anti Semitism and book burning "great entertainment", I find it disgusting.

Yawn. Again with the "supremacist" bs zzzzzz.

Milo is a thief who scammed over one hundred thousand dollars for a "white privilege grant" and then didn't give it out. Watching him and his posse of fellow fraudsters get their feet held to the fire IS a wonderful thing ;-)

It's not news they aren't the Alt Right, I explained this weeks ago, but you seem incapable of grasping it.

Brian?

Amazingfun wrote: »

Yawn. Again with the "supremacist" bs zzzzzz.

It's hardly BS. So what do you call believing your race is better than all others?

Milo is a thief who scammed over one hundred thousand dollars for a "white privilege grant" and then didn't give it out. Watching him and his posse of fellow fraudsters get their feet held to the fire IS a wonderful thing ;-)

It's not news they aren't the Alt Right, I explained this weeks ago, but you seem incapable of grasping it.

Typical Jews eh? They were never really welcome in the alt right.

Brian? wrote: »

It's hardly BS. So what do you call believing your race is better than all others?

Amazingfun has explained this already... sometimes these guys just gety a little over excited and in their exuberance break out the old Nazi salute.

Perfectly normal behaviour, nothing to see here. Sure weren't we all goosestepping and seig-heiling after Robbie Brady scored against Italy in the Euros?

Sand

Just goes to demonstrate how irrelevant the alt-right is. Just a bunch of social media trolls built up into a terrible foe by their mirror, the SJWs. They deserve each other, and happily both have no electoral importance.

InTheTrees

News from Whitefish, Montana, home of alt right nazi leader spencer's mum.

Plainly in an effort to ingratiate himself with the locals(!) spencer is organising an armed nazi march through the town to give a warning to the jewish community there (its unclear what the "warning" is about). As this is a rugged frontier state it is "open carry" which means you can wander around carrying an ak47 if you want. There's a nazi website that has announced its intention to bus in skinheads from the bay area for the event which is scheduled for th second week in January.

Yes, I did explain that Milo is not in the AltRight, merely spotted a chance for $$$ and self-promotion, plus his aforementioned scam where he defrauded many people of money, so his exposure as a lowlife liar and thief is both welcome and deserved. The only book burnt I saw burnt during this "event" was Cernovich's self help crapola, lol, and it was done by a person who bought it-so what?
Anglin has done a piece on him today, for those interested. Cernovich is a very weird person in his "I am Jewish", then "I am not Jewish, just kidding" game, I don't understand his motivation there, but whatever:
http://www.dailystormer.com/mike-cernovich-deploraball-and-the-collapse-of-the-alt-cuck-

Aaaaaaand yet again, the #heilgate bruhaha was all begun with an Asian porn star, Tila Tequila, and two jewish fellas attending NPI, they were doing it all weekend and it was a clear troll. Yet you continue to write your own script and dole it out as fact. I can't help your delusions, only assist in bubble-popping from time to time

The march in Whitefish ought to be an interesting media circus, sure we will all be watching, lol....

Amazingfun wrote: »

Aaaaaaand yet again, the #heilgate bruhaha was all begun with an Asian porn star, Tila Tequila, and two jewish fellas attending NPI, they were doing it all weekend and it was a clear troll. Yet you continue to write your own script and dole it out as fact. I can't help your delusions, only assist in bubble-popping from time to time

Can't help but notice that you never got back about to the post about these guys. They sure don't look like Tila Tequila or the two Jewish guys to me! But I do recognise the guy quoting Nazi propaganda and shouting 'hail/heil Trump' to goad them on on the podium.

FA Hayek

oscarBravo wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/racism-enar-ireland-2-2905863-Aug2016/

The first comment is a good one.

5 Million people, about 800,000 of those are foreign (give or take), 165 incidents over 180 days, many of those incidents being verbal
I just listened to Shane O`Curry on Morning Ireland,
He used phrases like “many,many,many” incidents of racism including social media and graffiti,
Sounded more like he was trying to justify his and ENARS existence.
Again i`ll repeat it
5 Million people, 800,000 which are foreign, spread over 180 days and i65 incidents – those a pretty good statistice for ANY country..
Hyperbole much Shane?

I have had racist abuse aimed at me a few times when I lived abroad, one of them threatened to kill me and leave me for dead in an alley. I did not run to some anti-racist group to air my story cause the guy was a) an asshole b) a drug addict c) mentally not all there d) old... Like you said in another post Oscar

Because they're assholes. There's no political persuasion with a monopoly on assholes.

Someone shouting at a Mother with their kids, eh just an asshole (cause its Trump's daughter).
Someone shouting at a Nigerian, quick record it, log it and tell everyone that Ireland is a very racist country.

Maybe that guy shouting at the Nigerian was also an asshole? No?

In many many of your posts, you want to have your cake and eat it. If your arguing on one basis one minute, you can't change when it suits your political and ideological position the next. It just makes you out to be totally unreasonable, ideological zealot and fanatic.

FA Hayek

oscarBravo wrote: »

That all seems fine and reasonable at first glance, but it's predicated on the idea that someone who is a horrible person, was an appalling candidate and is a pretty disastrous President-elect is somehow an unknown quantity and that we'll have to wait until January 20 before we find out who the real Trump is.
.

Well I can see how open minded you are. Then again the Irish are a cynical bunch so may make sense as well. As to the Appalling candidate remark, well if he was that appalling how come he won the EC ahead of Clinton? Perhaps you best look closer to home for that answer. As I said, killing TTIP is one example of this.

Billy86 wrote: »

Can't help but notice that you never got back about to the post about these guys. They sure don't look like Tila Tequila or the two Jewish guys to me! But I do recognise the guy quoting Nazi propaganda and shouting 'hail/heil Trump' to goad them on on the podium.

Liar. I have addressed this also, weeks ago now. Tila and Co. had STARTED it and had been doing it at various times during the conference, so it had become a *thing* by the finale. When Spencer lifted his glass and said Hail Trump, it was exactly as he said: the end of a high energy event, as well as the conclusion of a victorious election campaign many (including him, lol) were surprised at winning. It was fun, it was exuberance, it was media trolling -a very good one at that judging from the global freakout .

Why you put such effort into reposting videos already viewed and discussed is a bit of a mystery, but whatever floats yer boat

Amazingfun wrote: »

Liar. I have addressed this also, weeks ago now. Tila and Co. had STARTED it and had been doing it at various times during the conference, so it had become a *thing* by the finale.

When Spencer lifted his glass and said Hail Trump, it was exactly as he said: the end of a high energy event, as well as the conclusion of a victorious election campaign many (including him, lol) were surprised at winning. It was fun, it was exuberance, it was media trolling -a very good one at that judging from the global freakout .

This really is the best you could come up with? First, drop the straw man. You claimed others merely "joined in" with Tila Tequila and her two mates... I don't see them anywhere in that video or in that crowd. Maybe these poor white men just 'caught' something off the Asian and Jews? Perhaps you can point out where Tila Tequila & her two mates appear in the crowd during that speech, giving Nazi salutes?

I mean "they started it!!"? Really? You're using the same excuse that parents tell their 8 year olds to 'grow up' for using? "The Asian and Jews 'started it', including at that speech that they don't seem to have even been at. Everyone else just joined in because they all got a bit giddy and excited". At a conference of what, a few hundred people not fond of non-whites, they all wound up being influenced by two Jewish guys and Asian Z lister? I can almost hear Robin Williams now, "it's not your fault... it's not your fault!" :pac: You're trying to claiming that it was some masterful ploy by three people who somehow completely corrupted the well intentioned natures of those attending the White Supremacy "Advocacy" conference to hear a man shouting "Heil Trump!" and quote Nazi propaganda. It's beyond the point of parody.

Fact is, racist people do racist things and you're more than happy to align yourself with Neo Nazi's (whatever your reasons for that might be). As you yourself said only a day or two ago about some of the alt-right (that being the contingent aligned with Richard Spencer & others) calling the others "kikes" in response to their not wanting Nazi salutes as this "Deporaball" function: "Actually it's been pretty funny watching Alt-LITE Cernovich/Milo/ etc try and keep their new found income source intact, lol. They are getting roasted non-stop by real Alt-rightists and it's great entertainment".

Maybe they're just so, so exuberant and excited all the time? They're not racists, they've just had too much sugar and now they can't stop shouting anti-Semitic slurs and using Nazi salutes all over the shop.

You can't have it both ways. You've happily sided yourself with the white supremacists and Neo Nazis, so do us a favour and spare us the nonsense. You're fooling nobody, beyond possibly yourself (and I'd even doubt that).

Why you put such effort into reposting videos already viewed and discussed is a bit of a mystery, but whatever floats yer boat

Because there could be psychological studies done on the endless mental leaps made by those trying to at the one time pass off the alt-right as 'not white supremacist/Nazi's' and those not in support of White supremacy/Nazism as 'not alt-right'. Copying & pasting three links isn't really much effort to see what depths will be sunk to next time.

marienbad

FA Hayek wrote: »

I have had racist abuse aimed at me a few times when I lived abroad, one of them threatened to kill me and leave me for dead in an alley. I did not run to some anti-racist group to air my story cause the guy was a) an asshole b) a drug addict c) mentally not all there d) old

.

So how do you know that many more people are just like you and don't bother reporting it and just get on with life ? So what we are seeing reported is just part of the problem ?

A bit like sexual assault and rape , many cases go unreported I believe .

Racism absolutely does exist in Ireland, but I don't think it's as big an issue as in other countries thankfully. Being 'late to the game' in terms of people migrating here might play a role in that, not certain but just a hunch.

And to the surprise of nobody and by no coincidence, the alt right is also far, far less of a factor in Ireland than in other countries.

K-9

Mod:

@AmazingFun

Don't call others liars and stop linking to the Daily Stormer.

FA Hayek wrote: »

Someone shouting at a Nigerian, quick record it, log it and tell everyone that Ireland is a very racist country.

You might have a point, if you were responding to me saying that Ireland is a very racist country. But I didn't say that.

In many many of your posts, you want to have your cake and eat it. If your arguing on one basis one minute, you can't change when it suits your political and ideological position the next. It just makes you out to be totally unreasonable, ideological zealot and fanatic.

Well, it might - if you hadn't just fabricated something in order to argue with it.

If you're going to call me names, at least have the decency to do so based on something I actually said.

FA Hayek wrote: »

Well I can see how open minded you are.

What, I have to think everybody is a wonderful person in order to achieve your standards of open-mindedness? Or just people you admire?

He was objectively a horrible candidate, and there's nothing closed-minded about the belief that someone who has always been a pretty awful person is likely to be a pretty awful president.

As to the Appalling candidate remark, well if he was that appalling how come he won the EC ahead of Clinton?

I don't even know how to respond to a question that's that devoid of logic. You think you need to be a good person to win election? You think everyone who has won an election axiomatically turns out to be an effective ruler?

Bizarre.