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Occupy Nama: City property taken over to house homeless

wally79

There may be a thread already but I couldn't find it.

About 100 “concerned citizens”, including high-profile personalities, have gathered in Dublin on Thursday night to take over Apollo House, a Nama property, in order to accommodate the homeless

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/occupy-nama-city-property-taken-over-to-house-homeless-1.2907854

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Dyr

andekwarhola wrote: »

More power to them for doing their bit for the homeless but the thought of persistent, impromptu 'jams' invloving Damien Dempsey, Glen Hansard and Mundy turn the blood to ice.

I'm just waiting - with no small amount of terror - for the news that In Tua Nua and Emotional Fish have spontaneously reformed and are on the way into Hawkins Street with acoustic guitars, beanie hats and hessian weave sleeping bags.

Christy Moore is feverishly writing a christmas song as we speak "Free the Apollo 13"

VinLieger

bitburger wrote: »

There is a rather large difference between something being wrong to do and something being Illegal.

Trespassing is illegal

Berserker

Bambi wrote: »

Christy Moore is feverishly writing a christmas song as we speak "Free the Apollo 13"

Does he still have "special" collections at his gigs? If so, he might donate the takings to the homeless campaign, as opposed to the other campaign that he used to give it to.

the groutch wrote: »

the only job it's done is wasting Garda resources that could be put to much better use elsewhere.

What resources are you talking about? Haven't seen any Gardai there.

Fr_Dougal

david75 wrote: »

It's been sent for appeal January 4th I'm hearing. Job done.

A homeless person is not just for Christmas you know.

donkeykong5

Maybe the relations and friends of the appolo residents should offer them a bed/settee for Christmas and new year.

bitburger

VinLieger wrote: »

Trespassing is illegal

So is Blasphemy, Abortion and Euthanasia, does that automatically make all of these wrong then?

VinLieger

bitburger wrote: »

So is Blasphemy, Abortion and Euthanasia, does that automatically make all of these wrong then?

Your trying to equate laws for trespassing with the 8th amendment to justify people staying illegally in a building....... I think this arguments jumped the shark lads

Berserker

bitburger wrote: »

So is Blasphemy, Abortion and Euthanasia, does that automatically make all of these wrong then?

This has to be a wind-up, surely?

Dr Crayfish

This is so tricky, the homeless issue. The way I see it, no matter what we do, in a capitalist society there will always be homeless people.
What is the solution? If we all agreed to pay a little bit more tax so we could house them all, would that not encourage more people who are struggling somewhere, maybe living in a broken home, to just say f**k it I'm going to live on the streets, knowing that eventually they will get a place given to them?
If there were comfortable quarters available to all who were in need, the places would fill up right away, and there'd still be people left on the outside.
I'm not sure what we are supposed to do here.

Boom_Bap

Court order for Apollo House to be vacated has been issued.

Needs to be vacated by 11th Jan

bitburger

VinLieger wrote: »

Your trying to equate laws for trespassing with the 8th amendment to justify people staying illegally in a building....... I think this arguments jumped the shark lads

No , I was using those issues as examples of things which are illegal in ireland but depending on your own ethical point of view are right or wrong.

Yes, whats going on here is 100% Illegal and I dont think anybody is disputing that.

Having lived in other cities in Ireland it was a bit of a shock to see how bad things actually were in Dublin, now every morning as i walk to college i get to walk past plenty of people sleeping rough, taking heroin at 9 o clock in the morning etc, Im not sure id feel safety taking respite in some of the dormitory facilities on offer, having to keep all my belongings on me, even if i slip out to the toilet for fear of it being robbed.

So with that I will refer back to my original statement, Just because something is Illegal does not make it wrong.

In this case, i do not think these people are doing some thing wrong by trespassing.....

In the case of tresspass, Hillwalkers in Ireland have been having difficulties in the past number of years accessing established trails due to landowners deciding they do not want people passing their land, due to this a lot of beauty spots around the country are no longer accessible by anyone.

http://www.keepirelandopen.org/issues.html

So another issue where tresspass is 100% Illegal, is it right? Surely it has a negative impact on our sports and tourism industry?

[Deleted User]

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

This is so tricky, the homeless issue. The way I see it, no matter what we do, in a capitalist society there will always be homeless people.
What is the solution? If we all agreed to pay a little bit more tax so we could house them all, would that not encourage more people who are struggling somewhere, maybe living in a broken home, to just say f**k it I'm going to live on the streets, knowing that eventually they will get a place given to them?
If there were comfortable quarters available to all who were in need, the places would fill up right away, and there'd still be people left on the outside.
I'm not sure what we are supposed to do here.

Listen to yourself!

would that not encourage more people who are struggling somewhere, maybe living in a broken home, to just say f**k it I'm going to live on the streets, knowing that eventually they will get a place given to them?

Isn't that what we should be doing? Ireland is a socialist state, allegedly.

If there were comfortable quarters available to all who were in need, the places would fill up right away,

Good! Amazing! Not seeing our brothers and sisters suffer should be a main goal in life. You never know if it could happen to you.

Dr Crayfish

Deleted User wrote: »

Listen to yourself!

Isn't that what we should be doing? Ireland is a socialist state, allegedly.

Good! Amazing! Not seeing our brothers and sisters suffer should be a main goal in life. You never know if it could happen to you.

What I'm saying is that it may encourage more people who don't really need to be homeless, to become homeless.
I really think that no matter how many shelters or beds we had, there'd still be people on the outside.

nc6000

So they'll be kicked out in January and forgotten about until it gets close to Christmas next year?

limnam

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

This is so tricky, the homeless issue. The way I see it, no matter what we do, in a capitalist society there will always be homeless people.
What is the solution? If we all agreed to pay a little bit more tax so we could house them all, would that not encourage more people who are struggling somewhere, maybe living in a broken home, to just say f**k it I'm going to live on the streets, knowing that eventually they will get a place given to them?
If there were comfortable quarters available to all who were in need, the places would fill up right away, and there'd still be people left on the outside.
I'm not sure what we are supposed to do here.

It's when I read posts like this that I realize teachers have no right to bloody well strike. They should be working through the summer. "We educate your children". Holy fck. The knowledge economy. We go from 3rd world country to a rising star of the western world and what did we get in return...jumped up clueless fcking idiots who couldn't come up with one creative tangible suggestion.

Your right? These clowns will be out risking their lives been raped, stabbed with a HIV infected needle, beaten up, gear stolen. In the hope they might get some fancy place to stay and decent bowl of soup.

Genius.

[Deleted User]

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

What I'm saying is that it may encourage more people who don't really need to be homeless, to become homeless.
I really think that no matter how many shelters or beds we had, there'd still be people on the outside.

If someone is in such a desperate state that their options are to go on the street or move in somewhere like Apollo house, we should have room for them.

mr_edge_to_you

I saw one campaign recently run by the Luas crowd which said they collected 9000 shoe boxes for the homeless which had hats, scarves, gloves, soaps, jocks and socks in them.There definitely isn't 9000 people sleeping rough on the streets. So if the mininum value of each box was €20, €180k has been spent of stuff that in reality isn't needed. €180k in the hands of Peter McVerry Trust would be better use of money. In addition, the €100k already raised (as already mentioned on the thread) would be better spent in the hands of a reputable charity rather than on legal costs.

The people leading this Apollo House stunt are doing so in an irresponsible manner. By putting people in this building they've created a situation whereby the trespassers will have to be removed from the building and put back on to the streets. To me the whole thing is a bad publicity stunt that has no long term benefits for anyone.

In addition we have countless other charities doing the same work. They should really by pooling resources and consolidating funds with a view to doing more for those it wants to help.

This stunt will only affect those who are sleeping on the streets, the sad reality is many of these people can't be helped. Since I first went to Dublin as a child I've been seeing people begging and sleeping on the streets. There's always going to be people on the streets. It's inevitable.

Peoples efforts should be spent trying to help families that are stuck in hotels because there is no council housing. How is occupying Apollo House going to help them? What is it going to do to help people who are working and can't afford the deposit required to buy their own home? What's it going to do to help people move out of apartments that are not suitable for the family's needs?

At the same time, the politicians who are supporting this project are saying that I should be paying more tax to make sure everyone has a home? Well I've got news for you. I havent got any more to give. I already pay 50% of my salary in tax to make sure my own family have a roof over their head. I pay for their medical expenses our of my own pocket. I spend over 3 hours a day commuting to be in a position to do all this.

We have 3 crises at the moment:
Homelessness
Housing
Rent

3 very different and complex issues. Apollo House has just created one more problem for all involved to have to clean up.

david75

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

I saw one campaign recently run by the Luas crowd which said they collected 9000 shoe boxes for the homeless which had hats, scarves, gloves, soaps, jocks and socks in them.There definitely isn't 9000 people sleeping rough on the streets. So if the mininum value of each box was €20, €180k has been spent of stuff that in reality isn't needed. €180k in the hands of Peter McVerry Trust would be better use of money. In addition, the €100k already raised (as already mentioned on the thread) would be better spent in the hands of a reputable charity rather than on legal costs.

The people leading this Apollo House stunt are doing so in an irresponsible manner. By putting people in this building they've created a situation whereby the trespassers will have to be removed from the building and put back on to the streets. To me the whole thing is a bad publicity stunt that has no long term benefits for anyone.

In addition we have countless other charities doing the same work. They should really by pooling resources and consolidating funds with a view to doing more for those it wants to help.

This stunt will only affect those who are sleeping on the streets, the sad reality is many of these people can't be helped. Since I first went to Dublin as a child I've been seeing people begging and sleeping on the streets. There's always going to be people on the streets. It's inevitable.

Peoples efforts should be spent trying to help families that are stuck in hotels because there is no council housing. How is occupying Apollo House going to help them? What is it going to do to help people who are working and can't afford the deposit required to buy their own home? What's it going to do to help people move out of apartments that are not suitable for the family's needs?

At the same time, the politicians who are supporting this project are saying that I should be paying more tax to make sure everyone has a home? Well I've got news for you. I havent got any more to give. I already pay 50% of my salary in tax to make sure my own family have a roof over their head. I pay for their medical expenses our of my own pocket. I spend over 3 hours a day commuting to be in a position to do all this.

We have 3 crises at the moment:
Homelessness
Housing
Rent

3 very different and complex issues. Apollo House has just created one more problem for all involved to have to clean up.

Three issues that are very much connected to each other though.

scamalert

exactly homeless person isnt just for christmas,it happens all year long but people think one good deed for a day and then carry on,till next December.

But to justify taking someone else property to host 200 people is wrong,since cleaning fixing it up afterwards will cost whoever owns it be it via insurance or tax payer.And because they take 200 of the street for 8 hours that streets would appear clean at night wont solve issue with people going back to same places for the whole next day all over again - thus fixing this way its not solving anything.

iLikeWaffles

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Court order for Apollo House to be vacated has been issued.

Needs to be vacated by 11th Jan

The whole goal of Apollo House is to have no homeless on the streets at Christmas time.

---

Everyone in Ireland should take Apollo House as an example of how far we are willing to let a crisis go and learn from it, if we are not happy with something there is a lot we can all do about it! I hope Apollo House will be an inspiration for others to follow. Its a good thing that no person living rough will not freeze to death on the streets this Christmas.

and as always haters gonna hate!

david75

scamalert wrote: »

exactly homeless person isnt just for christmas,it happens all year long but people think one good deed for a day and then carry on,till next December.

But to justify taking someone else property to host 200 people is wrong,since cleaning fixing it up afterwards will cost whoever owns it be it via insurance or tax payer.And because they take 200 of the street for 8 hours that streets would appear clean at night wont solve issue with people going back to same places for the whole next day all over again - thus fixing this way its not solving anything.

That wasn't really the point of it all though. It's gotten national coverage and served as a spark for a movement like the water charges movement. It's gotten everyone talking and saying enough of just ignoring this. If the factions involved play their cards right and can keep the momentum going into the new year it will become something Enda & Coveny can't soundbite away anymore and will have to take seriously. Especially opening up vacant premises and addressing the utterly inadequate homeless accommodations around Dublin and presumably nationwide.

limnam

scamalert wrote: »

exactly homeless person isnt just for christmas,it happens all year long but people think one good deed for a day and then carry on,till next December.

But to justify taking someone else property to host 200 people is wrong,since cleaning fixing it up afterwards will cost whoever owns it be it via insurance or tax payer.And because they take 200 of the street for 8 hours that streets would appear clean at night wont solve issue with people going back to same places for the whole next day all over again - thus fixing this way its not solving anything.

To be fair, its looking a lot cleaner today than it has for a long time.

People seem to fixated on the cost of policing when there hasn't been any.
The cost of cleaning something up when they have no idea at what's going on or how it' going to end.

If you keep taking something and applying it as a solution when no one suggested it is you're right, you won't solve anything

But feel free to pop up any creative ideas you have yourself on helping maybe pass them a long. I won't be expecting to hear much more from you.

jackofalltrades

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

The whole goal of Apollo House is to have no homeless on the streets at Christmas time.!

Provided that they're not an alcoholic, drug addict or a minor.

Phoebas

limnam wrote: »

People seem to fixated on the cost of policing when there hasn't been any.

There will be legal costs of the High Court action, which presumably will fall to the organisers since the owners won the case.

I wonder what'll happen to all the brand new mattresses that Mattress Mick provided. Hopefully they'll find a new home for them, but I wouldn't be surprised if they all end up in a skip.

limnam

Phoebas wrote: »

There will be legal costs of the High Court action, which presumably will fall to the organisers since the owners won the case.

How does this effect "us"

Phoebas wrote: »

I wonder what'll happen to all the brand new mattresses that Mattress Mick provided. Hopefully they'll find a new home for them, but I wouldn't be surprised if they all end up in a skip.

Why don't you come up with a really good idea for a possible home for them? Why does everyone want to point out problems and offer no solutions?

I'm sure the SVDP would be very happy with them.....

Phoebas

limnam wrote: »

How does this effect "us"

I never said it did.
It seems to me that a lot of resources went into this stunt, that maybe could have been better directed.

limnam wrote: »

Why don't you come up with a really good idea for a possible home for them? Why does everyone want to point out problems and offer no solutions?

I'm sure the SVDP would be very happy with them.....

Maybe the SVdP take second hand mattresses; as I said, I hope they find a home for them. I just think it might be difficult for reasons outlined by Loveinapril there.

david75

Phoebas wrote: »

I never said it did.
It seems to me that a lot of resources went into this stunt, that maybe could have been better directed.

Maybe the SVdP take second hand mattresses; as I said, I hope they find a home for them. I just think it might be difficult for reasons outlined by Loveinapril there.

The biggest and most valuable resource used and earned here as moral support and raising awareness as a result.

That as they say will be priceless in keeping the issue up front into the new year. People love a feel good factor and something they can feel good about supporting. Especially if it's gonna bring about real results when the government are brought to task over it.

limnam

Phoebas wrote: »

I never said it did.
It seems to me that a lot of resources went into this stunt, that maybe could have been better directed.

We can never put enough resources into potentially saving someone's life IMO.

So better directed how can you give us some ideas on what other direction.

Other charities have been doing this for years and could never pull of what was done. This wasn't about a huge financial under taking it required people getting up off their jaxy and stop talking about a problem and doing _something_ about it how ever little that turns out to be is something we don't know but they did something.

Then people sit at home whining about how much the clean up will cost.

Who cares.

uck51js9zml2yt

High court has given them till the 11th January.

scamalert

limnam wrote: »

you seem fixated on solution which not single person or organization can solve,thus even thou i dont disregard sheltering people for even short duration,but this fixes nothing.
Can only agree that coverage it gets might draw attention of those who have power to implement some changes to start helping those in dire need.