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The difference between Aleppo and Mosul?

Del.Monte

Please, can anybody explain the difference between what the Russians and their allies are doing in Aleppo and what the Iraqis and their allies are doing in Mosul?

Apart that is from both being futile exercises in trying to dislodge heavily armed enemy forces that have been dug in for months in urban surroundings. Why are the media running with the Mosul nonsense today as if it was the liberation of Europe in 1944?

The stench of hypocrisy from both Russia and America is overwhelming. This is not some stupid computer game and lots of real people are being killed and they don't re-spawn. :mad:

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wigsa100

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Over 90% of those caught up in the Syrian Civil war are unarmed civilians and a similar percentage have been casualties.

Again, we have posters on here continually trying to portray Assad as the good guy and anyone who opposes him or protests against him as a "head-chopper".

The cheer-leading of Assad is truly stomach churning. How his fans can look themselves in the mirror is beyond me.

Assad is far and away the worst option for Syrians going forward. He has pursued bloody offensive after bloody offensive, involving chemical weapons, barrel bombs, cluster munitions (banned) and all sorts of heinous weapons. And yet he still has his fans around here, mostly from the Hard Left, who are doing themselves no favours in the long run by cheer-leading him.

It's laughable of you to claim that Al-Qaeda is a better option than Assad. That's complete nonsense and you know it. Rebels used chemical weapons before Assad was even accused of doing so.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-un-mission-report-confirms-that-opposition-rebels-used-chemical-weapons-against-civilians-and-government-forces/5363139

I draw your attention back to the 12 year old Palestinian boy who was beheaded in Aleppo a few months back by 'moderate' Nour Al Din Al Zanki. I also draw your attention to the fact that one of the men photographed with the boy as he is about to be beheaded was photographed with the man responsible for The White Helmets documentary on Netflix.

http://yournewswire.com/beheader-of-12-year-old-palestinian-boy-killed-by-syrian-special-forces/

As I have said time and again, the tiniest little bit of digging would reveal all this to you. I'm not an Assad cheerleader. Far from it. But he is a far better alternative than people who behead 12 year old boys. Only a fool would claim those that behead children and film it for the world to see are a better alternative to Assad, or are less evil or heinous in their actions than the Syrian or Russian armies.

You are just as misguided as anyone that claims Assad is a saint in all of this by your refusal to acknowledge the fact that Islamic extremists have been spearheading the 'rebel' movement for years now and are about a hair's breadth away from Islamic State in their approach to the world. They are more evil than Assad will ever be, and want to destroy the way you live your life in a way that Assad certainly does not.

Gatling

recedite wrote: »

What you call "lies" are accounts from independent journalists who have actually been to Aleppo and mingled with ordinary people there to get a sense of what is really going on.

You mean Eva Bartlett RT staffer and self proclaimed activist she's hardly independent no matter what is claimed,
You may or may not be aware the assad regime blocked the majority of media from reporting or even entering Syria ,
Is it a wonder no independent media outlets have anything to say about assad he personally alienated the media to his own detriment ,
Now he's sitting there all smug thinking he's won , but he hasn't he's no military ,no police forces and is 100% reliant on foreigners to do his bidding ,
Which means he had nothing other than a autocratic title ,
He's in a worse position now then any time in the last 5 years

Jimmy Garlic

recedite wrote: »

And of course the BBC's "live reports" from a luxury hotel in Beirut. How does a reporter staying in a completely different country give an accurate "live update" on Aleppo? They may as well be going "live" to Blackpool.

I saw a couple of BBC fake news reports yesterday where they showed an elderly Syrian man talking out the window of a bus.. They overdubbed a ''translation'' that went along the lines of ''the regime are murderers''. The wording of the ''translation'' was completely different in two so called news reports and the volume of the ''translation'' compared to his voice was so high that Arabic speakers wouldn't be able to do an independent translation. Pure liars with an agenda, making stuff up as they go along.

Gatling

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I saw a couple of BBC fake news reports

In what way were they faked

Jimmy Garlic

Gatling wrote: »

In what way were they faked

Unlike you I actually have discernment and a functioning BS meter. You'd believe any old nonsense. BS alarms should be going off when fake news outfits like the BBC put out ''translations'' that cannot be independently verified.

K-9

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Unlike you I actually have discernment and a functioning BS meter. You'd believe any old nonsense. BS alarms should be going off when fake news outfits like the BBC put out ''translations'' that cannot be independently verified.

What's your unbiased source for your claim then?

Mehapoy

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/02/18/the-media-are-misleading-public-syria/8YB75otYirPzUCnlwaVtcK/story.html

Good article on Aleppo and mainstream media misinformation

Jimmy Garlic

K-9 wrote: »

What's your unbiased source for your claim then?

There are lots of examples of the BBC peddling fake news. Stuff like this -

You are free to believe BBC translations that are impossible to independently verify, I don't.

The BBC aren't the only ones who peddle fake news of course..

Gatling

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

There are lots of examples of the BBC peddling fake news. Stuff like this -

You are free to believe BBC translations that are impossible to independently verify, I don't.

But to balance your argument if say of the russian media ran the story and same interview would you say the same because you can't understand the translation ,

Jimmy Garlic

Gatling wrote: »

But to balance your argument if say of the russian media ran the story and same interview would you say the same because you can't understand the translation ,

You are not understanding me Gatling. If an overdubbed translation completely drowns out the original voice then there is no way to independently verify it. If Russian media were putting out translations where the original voice is completely inaudible then I wouldn't believe them either.

Gatling

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

You are not understanding me Gatling. If an overdubbed translation completely drowns out the original voice then there is no way to independently verify it. If Russian media were putting out translations where the original voice is completely inaudible then I wouldn't believe them either.

I'm perfectly understanding you most media do badly over dubbed translations whether it be wrong age to wrong accent I personally wouldn't dismiss anything based off that,
Haven't watched anything on BBC lately but in the clip you talked about some one saying Assad is a murderer ,
What did you expect the person to say highly likely he's been bombed out of his home or had family members killed ,
If that was you would you be cheering for the person responsible for bombing everything in your city ,

Like yesterday a calendar was produced by a russian company showing scantily clad ladies purported to be Syrians with suggestive quotes attributed to them at some point it's going to appear on here as some kind of proof that Syrians love valdi Putin .

KingBrian2

Much of the media reporting coming out of Syria is from totally biased and propaganda sources. The British observatory monitoring the humanitarian situation is completely focusing on the opponents of the Gvt. We rarely see reporting for third parties and that is down to the dangers of the terrain. Outside of gvt controlled areas anyone can print or say whatever figure they want we have no means to verify these reports. Indeed much of these reports come with a warning attacked they have not been corroborated.

recedite

Gatling wrote: »

You may or may not be aware the assad regime blocked the majority of media from reporting or even entering Syria

There is no blanket ban on journalists entering Syria. All they have to do is apply for a visa. Those who abused their visas on previous trips by fabricating lies and campaigning for "regime change" in Syria are obviously not going to be welcomed back.

aled

am I right or wrong in saying that Saudi arabia is bang in the middle of all this. all the arms that are being sold are going through Saudi. then it goes to rebel fighters in yemen or Syria. am I wrong in thinking that Saudi arabia is a middleman for the sale of arms?

KingBrian2

aled wrote: »

am I right or wrong in saying that Saudi arabia is bang in the middle of all this. all the arms that are being sold are going through Saudi. then it goes to rebel fighters in yemen or Syria. am I wrong in thinking that Saudi arabia is a middleman for the sale of arms?

Yes for the most part. Iran also plays its role in sponsoring all groups that hate Saudi Arabia. Both the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the Islamic Republic of Iran are spreading the terror with their proxies.

Yourself isit

Assad meets the Queen in 2002 and was close to being knighted. We've always been at war with eastasia West Asia.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/National/article1072174.ece

Gatling

Yourself isit wrote: »

Assad meets the Queen in 2002 and was close to being knighted.

Massacreing your own population will ruin any chance of Knight hood or other awards

Yourself isit

Gatling wrote: »

Massacreing your own population will ruin any chance of Knight hood or other awards

It doesn't harm the Saudis

Gringo180

Yourself isit wrote: »

It doesn't harm the Saudis

Nor Bush or Blair, the former remarkably becoming a middle eastern peace envoy :pac:

Gatling

Yourself isit wrote: »

It doesn't harm the Saudis

Post removed just realised this is the politics forum not AH ,

Apologies mods

KingBrian2

Gatling wrote: »

Massacreing your own population will ruin any chance of Knight hood or other awards

You know those demonstrators were not looking for a democratic country.

Gatling

KingBrian2 wrote: »

You know those demonstrators were not looking for a democratic country.

Depends on what propaganda you subscribe to

KingBrian2

Gatling wrote: »

Depends on what propaganda you subscribe to

For once I agree with you. Propaganda on all sides.

johnp001

Gatling wrote: »

Massacreing your own population will ruin any chance of Knight hood or other awards

Mugabe was Sir Robert from 1994 to 2008.
Mandela was barred from entering the US as a terrorist until 2008, more than a decade after he became president of South Africa.
And Oslo University and the Nobel committee invite former peace prize winner Kissinger this month to lecture on peace despite local protests

I don't think the statuses accorded to figures on the world stage are in any way related to the morality of their actions but purely on the basis of political expediency.

Manach

Unfortunately the violence is that region is spiriing even more out of control.
"Russian ambassador to Turkey shot dead in Ankara"
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38369962

How Russia reacts to this will be interesting.

Hande hoche!

Would imagine more military aircraft being moved to Syria by the Russians. Syrian army will probably get more equipment T72s etc.

johnp001

Paul R. Pillar article on ConsortiumNews yesterday talking about Aleppo in the context of other international conflicts.

Paul R. Pillar wrote:

...
If one were to search for dispassionate and objective reasons to have more despair over Aleppo than over countless other instances of wartime suffering or of man’s inhumanity to man, such reasons would be hard to find. As important as possession of Aleppo is, it has still been only one piece of one front in one war out of the complex of wars that have constituted the violence in Syria over the past six years. There are many instances of brutality, at the hand of different perpetrators, to be found in the Syrian violence.

Outside Syria it is easy to find current or recent situations that are also heartstring-worthy. This is true even if limiting one’s purview to the Middle East and to instances of government forces assaulting populated areas and inflicting many civilian casualties and other civilian suffering.

Two instances that come readily to mind are the repeated armed assaults on the Gaza Strip and aerial bombardment in the current war in Yemen. The situation in Aleppo has in one respect been milder than those cases; rather than being an instance of “extermination,” in Aleppo even fighters, let alone civilians, have been given a chance to evacuate. There have been no convoys of green buses to take the people of Gaza or Yemen to safer places.

Policy Misdirection

The oversimplification and emotion that have come to characterize the dominant narrative about Aleppo are generating serious misunderstanding about that situation and about the wider war in Syria, and are laying groundwork for policy misdirection about other civil wars in the future.
More...

Meanwhile the Mosul conflict drags on with no immediate end in sight:

IS shows no sign of weakening as Mosul battle enters third month

'Tragedy' Inside Mosul As Food Runs Out, The Battle Against ISIS Drags On

recedite

The war has taken its toll with the various protagonists at both Aleppo and Mosul being exhausted and depleted. And yet there is one major force in the area still fresh. Turkey still has one of the largest tank and infantry armies in the world, idling nearby. And they also control the most of the supply routes for Syrian rebel and IS positions.
It looks like these talks in Moscow could be very significant. Putin has obviously decided to treat the ambassador as expendable, and not let his death interrupt the greater scheme of things.
USA and EU have become somewhat irrelevant recently. But I think the aim of the talks will be to come up with a plan end the war in a way which suits Assad, Turkey Russia and Iran, but which Trump will also support when he takes office. So basically, it will probably involve quietly shafting the Kurds, giving some autonomy to a few Turkmen and "moderate rebels" in a buffer zone close to Turkey, and then all involved destroying IS utterly and completely, with maximum press coverage.

A Primal Nut

So a week or two ago social media was full of reports from people inside Aleppo about how they are about to die because the regime was going to kill everyone. The word genocide was being thrown around. Has any of this come to pass? Have any of those people on social media actually died yet?

KingBrian2

A Primal Nut wrote: »

So a week or two ago social media was full of reports from people inside Aleppo about how they are about to die because the regime was going to kill everyone. The word genocide was being thrown around. Has any of this come to pass? Have any of those people on social media actually died yet?

Some day the media is going to have to own up to the falsification they put out there and retract what they have reported to be the case which had no trace of truth in them.