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The difference between Aleppo and Mosul?

Del.Monte

Please, can anybody explain the difference between what the Russians and their allies are doing in Aleppo and what the Iraqis and their allies are doing in Mosul?

Apart that is from both being futile exercises in trying to dislodge heavily armed enemy forces that have been dug in for months in urban surroundings. Why are the media running with the Mosul nonsense today as if it was the liberation of Europe in 1944?

The stench of hypocrisy from both Russia and America is overwhelming. This is not some stupid computer game and lots of real people are being killed and they don't re-spawn. :mad:

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rockatansky

Gatling wrote: »

Most of the reports are saying Syrians or whoever else was holding Palmayra fled after 3 days ,
This is going to be repeated across syria for another few years till either assad goes or gets killed ,
He's been bled dry and russian planes can only drop a handful of bombs ,
With no army on the ground they will only delay the what's coming eventually

It's almost like you're convincing yourself that this is the case when in fact, and you probably know this, the opposite is true. The time for removing Assad has come and gone. He wont be going anywhere for a long time.

gitzy16v

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjHniRRgOao&t=9s

This lady seems to know her stuff,the information is out there.

oneten

gitzy16v wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjHniRRgOao&t=9s

This lady seems to know her stuff,the information is out there.

Eva bartlett

gitzy16v

oneten wrote: »

Eva bartlett

Is that good or bad?
I just found her take on things quite eye-opening

Gatling

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The conflict is still ongoing. Syrian forces have routed the jihadi expansion in the east of country. Areas are returning to Gvt control so what is needed is for medical agencies to get into those areas and provide aid to both sides in the war. Safeguarding the work of medical teams is of paramount importance.

Routed your having a laugh ,

Actually I'll will agree 1000% that aid and protecting medical personnel and medical facilities is of the highest priority

oneten

gitzy16v wrote: »

Is that good or bad?
I just found her take on things quite eye-opening

Sorry didnt mean to infer either but saw that video somewhere else and thought she spoke truthfully, just stuck her name up so anybody can research or reference.

KingBrian2

Gatling wrote: »

Routed your having a laugh ,

Actually I'll will agree 1000% that aid and protecting medical personnel and medical facilities is of the highest priority

And for providing aid to both parties. The Syrian soldiers who have died for their country against the jihadi terrorists.

johnp001

oneten wrote: »

Eva bartlett

Vanessa Beeley is another informed journalist who has written extensively on Syria

Vanessa Beeley wrote:

Journey To Aleppo: Exposing The Truth Buried Under NATO Propaganda

Virgina State Senator Richard Black has also visited Syria this year and been interviewed about it by LarouchePAC among others

And the US Peace Council have reported on their recent trip to Syria. I found it very interesting to see the perspective from non politicians and non journalists
Peace Group ; NATO & U.S. Spreading 'Disinformation on Syria'

Blowfish

Well it looks like the point is a bit moot at this point, the rebels in Aleppo have pretty much been defeated.

A Primal Nut

So ISIS were on the back foot in Mosul and appeared to be on the way out. The US announce they will start selling arms to Syrian rebels again. Next thing you know ISIS have taken over Mosul. Robert Fisk in an Independant.ie article pretty much stated he believed the US let ISIS fighters out of Mosul to go take back Palmyra. It's no longer a conspiracy theory. The US have picked the worst of two evils in Syria and they've gone with ISIS & Al Qaeda.

It's mind boggling.The Islamic extremists are focused on expansion and are a threat to the entire middle east, including being the main threats in Iraq and Afghanistan where the US have gone to such efforts to have democracy. They have also attacked the West many times and are a genuine terrorist threat. Assad isn't a threat to anybody outside of his own country. I think Obama is so focused on democracy that he is willing to back the extremists in the hope that somehow democracy will spring from chaos. The reality is that even if the rebels win, the extremists will immediately massacre any pro-democracy allies.

The other thing about Assad is at least you can sit down and negotiate with him. Maybe offer him military support in return for not using carpet bombs. Probably won't work but like I said at least you can negotiate with him. You can't negotiate with ISIS & Al-Qaeda, they want the weapons and that's it.

As much as I hate Trump, if he puts an end to this madness it would be worth him being elected.

A Primal Nut

Samantha Power made a speech that's going viral to the UN about Russian/Syrian war crimes, completely ignoring the fact that so far civilian massacres have mostly been carried about by the western back rebels according to human rights groups. There is a big thing now where people inside Aleppo are tweeting about the impending massacre at the hands of government forces. Looking at some of the twitter profiles many of them have strong links with the rebel armies. Could be propaganda but I guess the next few days will tell.

johnp001

Journalist Eva Bartlett, recently returned from Syria, taking questions last Friday at a UN press conference on the issue of biased reporting in the context of Aleppo:

Shurimgreat

Assad massacres hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and yet, according to some, he's the "good guy".

Go figure.

The Irish/UK Left have no moral compass unfortunately. They always side with the most blood thirsty of dictators...Assad, Gadhafi, Milosevic. The more these dictators massacre the more admired and cheer-leaded they are by the Left. You just have to read back over threads like this to see that.

Assad and his cheer-leaders know he can never win a popular election and he must resort to barrel bombing to keep his people "onside".

wigsa100

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Assad massacres hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and yet, according to some, he's the "good guy".

Go figure.

The Irish/UK Left have no moral compass unfortunately. They always side with the most blood thirsty of dictators...Assad, Gadhafi, Milosevic. The more these dictators massacre the more admired and cheer-leaded they are by the Left. You just have to read back over threads like this to see that.

Assad and his cheer-leaders know he can never win a popular election and he must resort to barrel bombing to keep his people "onside".

Are you aware that the largest 'Rebel' group in Eastern Allepo was Jabhat Fatah Al-Sham? Formerly known as Jabhat Al-Nusra, the Syrian affiliates of Al-Qaeda? Who in their right mind would consider these people to be freedom fighters?

wigsa100

As for Gaddafi, one only has to look at the state of Libya, now a failed state, as well as the refugee crisis which was more or less directly caused by the Libyan revolution, to see how successful an escapade Western intervention with a view to overthrowing him was.

A failed state. Their government were having to meet on a boat off the Libyan coast a few months back because they could not safely meet on land due to the threat from Islamic extremism.

Shurimgreat

wigsa100 wrote: »

Are you aware that the largest 'Rebel' group in Eastern Allepo was Jabhat Fatah Al-Sham? Formerly known as Jabhat Al-Nusra, the Syrian affiliates of Al-Qaeda? Who in their right mind would consider these people to be freedom fighters?

And who would consider the deliberate targeting of hospitals (not accidental targeting before we go down that route) as a legitimate means of fighting an enemy, or the deliberate targeting of medical first responders (white helmets) as acceptable.

Zero condemnation from the Left of Assad and Russia. Nothing, nada, zilch. Complete silence in the face of on-going war crimes.

Shurimgreat

wigsa100 wrote: »

As for Gaddafi, one only has to look at the state of Libya, now a failed state, as well as the refugee crisis which was more or less directly caused by the Libyan revolution, to see how successful an escapade Western intervention with a view to overthrowing him was.

A failed state. Their government were having to meet on a boat off the Libyan coast a few months back because they could not safely meet on land due to the threat from Islamic extremism.

The West fought in Libya to protect civilians being attacked by Gadhafi and his thugs. That Gadhafi died in the process was a fortunate side effect.

Again, rivers of tears for the death of Gadhafi, silence on the death of civilians he was attacking.

No-one seriously laments Gadhafi. He has rightly being consigned to the dustbin of history.

As for Libya, it is in a far far better place than Syria and hasn't suffered even a fraction of the death and destruction of that country.

Gatling

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Zero condemnation from the Left of Assad and Russia. Nothing, nada, zilch. Complete silence in the face of on-going war crimes.

It's basically all denied,
if america drops a bomb that accidentally kills civillians you will see multiple threads from AH -PC -and Here full of outrage about perceived American war crimes but here we are ,
100 + hospitals and medical facilities directly targeted and destroyed schools destroyed , bakery's bombed while people qued for food and rations ,by Assad and putins forces
And we hear nothing other than its all fake american propaganda ,
Same posters across several threads and forums propaganda and lies and MSM bias

Timberrrrrrrr

Shurimgreat wrote: »

And who would consider the deliberate targeting of hospitals (not accidental targeting before we go down that route) as a legitimate means of fighting an enemy, or the deliberate targeting of medical first responders (white helmets) as acceptable.

Zero condemnation from the Left of Assad and Russia. Nothing, nada, zilch. Complete silence in the face of on-going war crimes.

The western forces have done this too

And please don't try to claim the yank strikes on hospitals were accidents :rolleyes:

Gatling

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

please don't try to claim the yank strikes on hospitals were accidents :rolleyes:

I did but to be fair I've yet to see any condemsation of the 100 + hospitals and medical facilities directly targeted and destroyed in Syria nothing not even sorry we made a mistake it won't happen again .
But people spend years repeatedly going on about a single incident ,
But here nothing do people in Syria not deserve the same tears and outrage

Amerika

Talk about the United Nations over here in the states has become quite interesting in the last couple of weeks. Many Republicans have for some time now been talking about pulling out of the UN and shutting it down in New York City. Democrats have always been against Republicans in this regard. Although the UN has been quite the failure on most international affairs, their saving grace was in humanitarian efforts. But with the crisis’s that have been happening in Syria, Iraq and several African countries, and the negative effects of migration into European countries, I have recently seen several high level Democrats now advocating for the US to leave the UN and shut down its operation here. Because the UN is now almost totally ineffective, and all they primarily do when they meet here is throw lavish parties. I am curious to see if the two political parties in the US are calling to leave and/or abolish the UN, will it force the UN to finally take steps to do what their charter demands, or are we seeing the beginning of the end of the United Nations?

Shurimgreat

Gatling wrote: »

I did but to be fair I've yet to see any condemsation of the 100 + hospitals and medical facilities directly targeted and destroyed in Syria nothing not even sorry we made a mistake it won't happen again .
But people spend years repeatedly going on about a single incident ,
But here nothing do people in Syria not deserve the same tears and outrage

Spot on. Absolute silence. Nothing in the line of condemnation. Not one iota of regret. Not even calls for an investigation. Nothing. Silence.

Their "concern" for civilians on all sides rings hollow. Its basically about having a go at the Americans at every opportunity and ignoring anything else. Like I said, it rings hollow.

KingBrian2

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Assad massacres hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and yet, according to some, he's the "good guy".

Go figure.

The Irish/UK Left have no moral compass unfortunately. They always side with the most blood thirsty of dictators...Assad, Gadhafi, Milosevic. The more these dictators massacre the more admired and cheer-leaded they are by the Left. You just have to read back over threads like this to see that.

Assad and his cheer-leaders know he can never win a popular election and he must resort to barrel bombing to keep his people "onside".

Aleppo was a hotbed of Jihadi activity. A springboard for attack on Continental Europe and America. President Assad was dealing with the mess caused by western polices. The news media omit the lives lost all across Syria perpetrated by Jihadi terrorists.

As for Gadhafi and Milosevic the left never condoned any of the actions of these leaders. Usually it is the right that talks about nuking the middle east and allowing military dictators butcher their people. The Brits don't put nearly enough pressure on Israel to make peace with their Arab neighbours and spend more time starting wars.

KingBrian2

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The West fought in Libya to protect civilians being attacked by Gadhafi and his thugs. That Gadhafi died in the process was a fortunate side effect.

Again, rivers of tears for the death of Gadhafi, silence on the death of civilians he was attacking.

No-one seriously laments Gadhafi. He has rightly being consigned to the dustbin of history.

As for Libya, it is in a far far better place than Syria and hasn't suffered even a fraction of the death and destruction of that country.

Libya is not in a good place now. You can go ask the Italian and Irish naval services. Victims of American aggression.

Johndoe86

Gatling wrote: »

I did but to be fair I've yet to see any condemsation of the 100 + hospitals and medical facilities directly targeted and destroyed in Syria nothing not even sorry we made a mistake it won't happen again .
But people spend years repeatedly going on about a single incident ,
But here nothing do people in Syria not deserve the same tears and outrage

The hospitals which cannot be named? Imagine if Russia was claiming the US was tactically blowing up hospitals but refused to name any of the hospitals it would all be dismissed as propaganda and no one would even be talking about it.

Shurimgreat

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Libya is not in a good place now. You can go ask the Italian and Irish naval services. Victims of American aggression.

A lot lot better than Syria.

ISIS in Libya:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/740517/Islamic-State-ISIS-defeated-Libya-soldiers-retake-Sirte

ISIS in Syria:

https://www.rt.com/usa/370310-isis-palmyra-townsend-coalition/

That's not to mention the hundreds of thousands killed in Syria, 12 million displaced, several million in Turkey and 1 million migrating to Europe.

I'm guessing you are going to compliment Assad and criticise the west for Syria.

The difference is the west imposed a no-fly zone in Libya which brought the conflict to a quick end.

The west didn't do the same in Syria where it drags on and will do for several more years.

Again the lefties will focus solely on criticising the west and ignore aggression and human rights abuses of everyone else. Its tiresome at this stage.

gitzy16v

Shurimgreat wrote: »

A lot lot better than Syria.

ISIS in Libya:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/740517/Islamic-State-ISIS-defeated-Libya-soldiers-retake-Sirte

ISIS in Syria:

https://www.rt.com/usa/370310-isis-palmyra-townsend-coalition/

That's not to mention the hundreds of thousands killed in Syria, 12 million displaced, several million in Turkey and 1 million migrating to Europe.

I'm guessing you are going to compliment Assad and criticise the west for Syria.

The difference is the west imposed a no-fly zone in Libya which brought the conflict to a quick end.

The west didn't do the same in Syria where it drags on and will do for several more years.

Again the lefties will focus solely on criticising the west and ignore aggression and human rights abuses of everyone else. Its tiresome at this stage.

Is this the same Libya that our navy are picking up refugees off the coast of.
What are they fleeing from if the conflict has ended

Gatling

Johndoe86 wrote: »

The hospitals which cannot be named?

Yes they were all identified,

KingBrian2

Shurimgreat wrote: »

A lot lot better than Syria.

ISIS in Libya:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/740517/Islamic-State-ISIS-defeated-Libya-soldiers-retake-Sirte

ISIS in Syria:

https://www.rt.com/usa/370310-isis-palmyra-townsend-coalition/

That's not to mention the hundreds of thousands killed in Syria, 12 million displaced, several million in Turkey and 1 million migrating to Europe.

I'm guessing you are going to compliment Assad and criticise the west for Syria.

The difference is the west imposed a no-fly zone in Libya which brought the conflict to a quick end.

The west didn't do the same in Syria where it drags on and will do for several more years.

Again the lefties will focus solely on criticising the west and ignore aggression and human rights abuses of everyone else. Its tiresome at this stage.

The west supplied arms to the rebels to launch terrorist attacks on cities across the country and when the Syrian army retaliated the western media went into a tizzy. Blatant hypocrisy of the highest order. I get why people would be angry at the Syrian gvt for indiscriminate attack but at this point it is all political nonsense. When someone bombs your country you not to let them get away with it.

recedite

What I find strange is that all these "hospitals" that are being bombed seem to keep following the rebels into the ever decreasing area that they still control. The same goes for the UN aid convoys. They always seem desperate to resupply the "civilians and children" in rebel held areas, but as soon as that area changes to Assad controlled, they suddenly lose interest.
If it was really a neutral and humanitarian mission, they would be building hospitals and soup kitchens in the govt.controlled liberated areas behind the front lines, so people could have somewhere safe to go to.