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The End for Youghal?

Isambard

and other lines

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/midleton-youghal-line-may-formally-shut/2572831/

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end of the road

Quackster wrote: »

Just because there once was a railway to a country town is not sufficient reason, in and of itself, that it should ever be reopened.

Just because you say that just because there once was a railway to a country town is not sufficient reason, in and of itself, that it should ever be reopened, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be reopened.

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

or we could do both. it's what normal countries (even ones similar to us) do.

With what money? There are far more pressing things that need the limited amount of it there is to go around.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

With what money? There are far more pressing things that need the limited amount of it there is to go around.

they're are always more pressing things needing doing but that isn't a reason not to do the lesser things. in relation to this topic, it's not as if we would be reopening any potential lines today it will be 20, maybe even 50 years. hence it's vital the routes are protected.

Carawaystick

end of the road wrote: »

or we could do both. it's what normal countries (even ones similar to us) do.

You are advocating building a brand new railway from Youghal to Waterford? and suggesting it's normal?
When even in the days the only motorised transport was railway, a line was never built linking the 2?

end of the road

Carawaystick wrote: »

You are advocating building a brand new railway from Youghal to Waterford? and suggesting it's normal?
When even in the days the only motorised transport was railway, a line was never built linking the 2?

oh absolutely i do believe in decades to come re-instating a rail link between cork and waterford should be considered. where it should start from in cork i don't know however, that will be for the planners to decide should they consider it.

roundymac

Won't happen but if it were to, the obivous route would be via Mallow like before. Terrain east of Youghal would rule out Waterford by that route.

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

they're are always more pressing things needing doing but that isn't a reason not to do the lesser things.

That's a contradiction! You spend the money on the more pressing things, leaving no money for the things that don't need it.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

That's a contradiction!

no it isn't.

n97 mini wrote: »

You spend the money on the more pressing things, leaving no money for the things that don't need it.

you have to leave money for the lesser needed things to be done later on.

tabbey

roundymac wrote: »

Won't happen but if it were to, the obivous route would be via Mallow like before. Terrain east of Youghal would rule out Waterford by that route.

Absolutely true about terrain between Youghal and Dungarvan.

By a strange coincidence, today while browsing 1902 newspapers in the NLI, I came across a report claiming that the GS&WR was surveying a proposed route from Midleton to Lismore. Such a route would have been highly unlikely given that much of the terrain is 500 - 600 feet above sea level, possibly even worse than Youghal to Dungarvan.

I suspect any such survey was intended to rule out such a scheme.

Does anybody know any more about this proposal, shortly before the development of the London - Cork via Fishguard and Rosslare.

Isambard

end of the road wrote: »

no it isn't.

.

Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?

dowlingm

Given the spike in need for housing, revitalizing a town like Youghal might seem to be something worth considering rather than try to jam more estates into other areas. Yes, buses can and do operate but the case was made out for Midleton and the longer the commute the more being crammed into a bus will chafe.

As noted above with respect to other closure candidates, it will be interesting to see what happens the next time there is a serious landslip or flood event in Wicklow if stock is still in Wexford.

AngryLips

I don't know the area, but doesn't Youghal have the potential to be a good commuter town for Cork?

Also, I'm surprised that Irish Rail don't want to close the Drogheda-Navan line.

I've always wondered why Galway services aren't routed via Mullingar-Athlone terminating at Connolly, it seems like there is a huge disparity in service frequencies between the line out to Sligo vs. the line out towards Cork. Redirecting Galway IC services would address that a bit.

Del.Monte

AngryLips wrote: »

I don't know the area, but doesn't Youghal have the potential to be a good commuter town for Cork?

Also, I'm surprised that Irish Rail don't want to close the Drogheda-Navan line.

I've always wondered why Galway services aren't routed via Mullingar-Athlone terminating at Connolly, it seems like there is a huge disparity in service frequencies between the line out to Sligo vs. the line out towards Cork. Redirecting Galway IC services would address that a bit.

Of course the Youghal line has commuter potential, but as it fell outside the scope of the 1970s Cork LUTS (Land Use & Transportation Study) it has never been considered.

The Drogheda/Navan line survives as the traffic from Tara Mines uses the route. When that traffic is finished so is the line.

Galway services were originally routed via Athlone/Mullingar but as CIE are obsessed by reducing track mileage......

L1011

AngryLips wrote: »

Also, I'm surprised that Irish Rail don't want to close the Drogheda-Navan line.

It has freight traffic that is legally required to use rail (planning condition)

hytrogen

AngryLips wrote:

I don't know the area, but doesn't Youghal have the potential to be a good commuter town for Cork?

It's one of the contributing factors to the jack lynch tunnel, south link & dunkettle interchange is jammers everyday, mostly from traffic commuting east-west bound..

Isambard

hytrogen wrote: »

It's one of the contributing factors to the jack lynch tunnel, south link & dunkettle interchange is jammers everyday, mostly from traffic commuting east-west bound..

South Ring you mean?

dowlingm

Navan is a whole other story - if the Clonsilla line had been completed to Navan I think the Drogheda line would be a greenway now since the Taras could be shifted out of the way of Enterprise/DART/etc.

East Cork is one of those places where there is potential to have bus and rail do separate and important things:

Expressway (Parnell Place) West Cork-(Cork-Youghal)-Waterford-Rosslare
Rail (Kent) extend the Midleton commuter link to Youghal, preferably being able to park 2-4 sets and eliminate deadheading/promote early/late service. A station at/east of Killeagh as a park and ride option for people coming in via the Youghal bypass
Local Bus - instead of running into Cork, bringing people to the local railhead to facilitate city centre commuters but then continuing on *through the tunnel* with routes serving one or more of the airport, Mahon Point, Regional Hospital, CIT.

But that is joinedy-up network transportation and, well, CIE...

Isambard

Sounds reasonable but Killeagh to Midleton is only 15km...could not what you propose be operated from there without the expense of rail re-opening?

If such a network took off, then is the time to consider extending the line.
Meanwhile, the car park at Midleton is rather empty indicating to me that most people prefer to drive

Logue no2

Isambard wrote: »

Sounds reasonable but Killeagh to Midleton is only 15km...could not what you propose be operated from there without the expense of rail re-opening?

If such a network took off, then is the time to consider extending the line.
Meanwhile, the car park at Midleton is rather empty indicating to me that most people prefer to drive

Sorry Corky the numbers are good at Midleton and don't forget the car parking charges put a lot of commuters off using the car park.

marno21

Logue no2 wrote: »

Sorry Corky the numbers are good at Midleton and don't forget the car parking charges put a lot of commuters off using the car park.

And the lack of connectivity in the city. Train is useless unless you're going to the city centre.

marno21

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Public-meeting-to-look-at-use-of-old-rail-lines-7b47d125-9ac4-423f-8222-d91f349395f5-ds

Public meeting to happen in a weeks time on the future of the railway to Youghal in light of forthcoming greenway plans.

Del.Monte

And the Greens want the rail route preserved for railway use only and the greenway to go elsewhere. This from the party who when in government sanctioned the closure of the Waterford/Rosslare route. As for 'the people of Youghal' - God help us ! - they will end up with neither if their past efforts are anything to go by. :rolleyes:

Isambard

I wonder where the Greenway is going to go in this instance, Youghal to Midleton doesn't seem to make sense on it's own and there's little scope, geographically, for going further east. I think this is a question of jumping on the Waterford Greenway bandwagon without thinking it through.

I don't think there is much potential currently for a rail link, but of all the greenways built and proposed this one does seem to have more potential as a rail link than most.

marno21

Isambard wrote: »

I wonder where the Greenway is going to go in this instance, Youghal to Midleton doesn't seem to make sense on it's own and there's little scope, geographically, for going further east. I think this is a question of jumping on the Waterford Greenway bandwagon without thinking it through.

I don't think there is much potential currently for a rail link, but of all the greenways built and proposed this one does seem to have more potential as a rail link than most.

Given the amount of office space opening up and the general push in Cork city centre I am tending to agree.

There is space for 8,000 office workers coming online in the next year or so, 5,000 at Kent Station (Horgan's Quay) and 3,000 at Navigation Square. If that continues in Cork city centre I think it would be imprudent to abandon the alignment, it's quite a direct route and there are no plans to sort out the N25 before 2030.

Isambard

..and thinking laterally, developing Youghal as a Commuter dormitory might be it's salvation, it's never going to be a great tourist magnet again. I have my doubts tbh, but it might be prudent in this case to secure the alignment

tabbey

Isambard wrote: »

it might be prudent in this case to secure the alignment

It would be crazy and criminal to abandon such a good alignment.

It might not reopen for ten or twenty years, but Iam sure it will be found necessary in the long term.

As road traffic on the N25 increases each year and has no additional capacity on the Lower Glanmire Road, the rail alternative becomes inevitable. One solution would be to make the large carparks at Midleton and Carrigtwohill available to commuters, rather than continuing to price them out of use. But this will be inadequate in the long term.

Although off-topic, the continuing policy of charging for use of carparks in non-commercial locations, is counter productive to attracting commuters to rail. Gormanston, Co Meath, is a classic case. About six or ten motorists park in the official carpark, which has nearly two hundred spaces. Typically 18 - 20 park on the narrow approach road, to avoid the charges.
These carparks were provided at the expense of the Irish and EU taxpayers. Charging excessive fees to use them, meant they were a waste of money.

loyatemu

Isambard wrote: »

..and thinking laterally, developing Youghal as a Commuter dormitory might be it's salvation, it's never going to be a great tourist magnet again. I have my doubts tbh, but it might be prudent in this case to secure the alignment

it's 50km from Cork, it would be terrible planning to develop it as a commuter town. There's plenty of better places to build houses for Cork workers, Midleton for a start.

marno21

loyatemu wrote: »

it's 50km from Cork, it would be terrible planning to develop it as a commuter town. There's plenty of better places to build houses for Cork workers, Midleton for a start.

It's a similar distance as Drogheda is to Dublin, and Drogheda is getting a DART service.

The 50km is via the N25, the rail alignment is a few km shorter

Isambard

currently the plan is to build north of the City so Youghal is really long term as is further development of Midleton.

loyatemu

marno21 wrote: »

It's a similar distance as Drogheda is to Dublin, and Drogheda is getting a DART service.

Drogheda is already a suburb of Dublin and has an existing rail service. It's also the biggest town in the country with several other large towns between it and Malahide.

It's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario - you couldn't justify reopening the line to Youghal until it was much bigger and there was a lot of traffic going into Cork. But that would be a disaster in the meantime (and even afterwards as most people would continue to drive). Deliberately planning for an increase in commuting from Youghal to Cork is a plain bad idea.