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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

JupiterKid

Following on from the suggestion of a poster, this thread has been set up to discuss the need for widening the M7.

The section of the M7 IMO in immediate need (really a backlog need) for widening is the section from the Maudlins Interchange at Naas to the M9 interchange - basically the original 1983 Naas Bypass and half of the 1993 Newbridge Bypass. Is this likely to proceed in the near future?

Would the central median be wide enough for widening to D3M here? I'm pretty sure it is wide enough on the Newbridge bypass section but I'm not so sure in the case of the Naas Bypass.

Also, what bridges will need to be demolished and rebuilt? Or would it be more practical to drop the hard shoulder through the existing bridges?

What about the proposal a few years back to build a new junction at on the Naas Bypass at Osberstown? Will it still go ahead?

In the longer term, does anyone see a need to widen the M7 to the N7/M8 junction?

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Idbatterim

there is another thread on the n11 widening, one poster mentioned two schemes in belfast, turning hard shoulder into bus lane at peak morning hours...

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/m1m2busways2017.html

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

spacetweek

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Your assumption being that people will sell the car then? Unlikely as most would want it for evenings/weekends/days off (especially if they are living outside Dublin) so they'll still be paying the tax, insurance and general upkeep anyway regardless.

Unless public transport (and the associated costs) becomes sufficiently cheap that people will put up with the additional inconvenience and lost time then they just won't take that option.

Why should PT be made cheaper while motoring enjoys such a high level of subsidy? Motor tax and petrol in particular are greatly cheaper than the actual cost of, respectively, maintaining roads and environmental and health damage.

_Kaiser_

spacetweek wrote: »

The cost of maintaining and running a car is a multiple of that.

Your assumption being that people will sell the car then? Unlikely as most would want it for evenings/weekends/days off (especially if they are living outside Dublin) so they'll still be paying the tax, insurance and general upkeep anyway regardless.

Unless public transport (and the associated costs) becomes sufficiently cheap that people will put up with the additional inconvenience and lost time then they just won't take that option.

spacetweek

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Yes but I don't park in a multistorey carpark every day.

€4 per day is €20 per week is €1,000 per year (annual leave aside). Add train or Luas costs to that and people just won't do Park & Ride. I wouldn't.

€1.50 per day is €7.50 per week and <€400 per year. Thats more tempting for people.

Or else include the parking fee annually in the taxsaver.

The cost of maintaining and running a car is a multiple of that.

[Deleted User]

Walter2016 wrote: »

Have a look at issues in Maynooth - many local workers there use the train station carpark and take up commuter spaces.

Easily sorted by having a discount parking ticket with a rail ticket and a full price one for local workers.

Walter2016

Deedsie wrote: »

Surely cctv secure free bicycle parking at these train stations would be great for people who live within 5km of the stations. Would be free to park, less cars on roads etc etc...

Have a look at issues in Maynooth - many local workers there use the train station carpark and take up commuter spaces.

Sallins thankfully doesn't have a large local workforce as Naas is main working town, but such issues have to be taken into account.

[Deleted User]

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Yes but I don't park in a multistorey carpark every day.

€4 per day is €20 per week is €1,000 per year (annual leave aside). Add train or Luas costs to that and people just won't do Park & Ride. I wouldn't.

€1.50 per day is €7.50 per week and <€400 per year. Thats more tempting for people.

Or else include the parking fee annually in the taxsaver.

If you have a monthly or annual taxsaver ticket with Irish Rail, you can buy an Annual Car park pass for €220.

Monthly Irish Rail parking tickets are €30 in all stations except Galway and Connolly.

Chris_5339762

Cookiemunster wrote: »

So are Irish Rail just money making in their car parks too seeing as the charge about the same?
You obviously never parked in a multistorey cars parks if you think €4 is expensive.

Yes but I don't park in a multistorey carpark every day.

€4 per day is €20 per week is €1,000 per year (annual leave aside). Add train or Luas costs to that and people just won't do Park & Ride. I wouldn't.

€1.50 per day is €7.50 per week and <€400 per year. Thats more tempting for people.

Or else include the parking fee annually in the taxsaver.

[Deleted User]

Sam Russell wrote: »

Surely the answer to that is to give a monthly parking ticket for the cost of 5 days parking.

A monthly parking ticket in Sallins is €30. So if you use it on average 22 days per month, it's not too much more than €1.20 per day.
Therefore for regular train users it's a very economical option to park at the train station.

Sam Russell

Surely the answer to that is to give a monthly parking ticket for the cost of 5 days parking.

munchkin_utd

gilly2308 wrote: »

€4 is probably not that expensive, but when added to train tickets, bus tickets, LUAS tickets etc, it all adds up. You are never going to persuade people to leave their cars if you are not offering them an alternative that is cheaper and quicker, so parking costs at train stations should be negligible.

+1

in Munich thats the policy and park and rides are between €50c and €1.50 per day, with a monthly ticket being a tenner give or take. Theres also far more park and rides and a few in the suburban towns (say equivalent of Maynooth) would have a proper multi story.

But that makes perfect sense.
If you are enriching the rail company to the tune of €100 a month, surely its in their interest to encourage more people to travel by giving cheap parking, rather than to shaft you on parking on top of a substantial travel cost and then get neither money for parking or a bum on a seat (and €1000 per passenger per year or whatever it may cost)

gilly0512

Cookiemunster wrote: »

So are Irish Rail just money making in their car parks too seeing as the charge about the same?
You obviously never parked in a multistorey cars parks if you think €4 is expensive.

€4 is probably not that expensive, but when added to train tickets, bus tickets, LUAS tickets etc, it all adds up. You are never going to persuade people to leave their cars if you are not offering them an alternative that is cheaper and quicker, so parking costs at train stations should be negligible.

Cookiemunster

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

True, but €4 per day at the Red Cow is just moneymaking.

If they want to encourage a load of people to transfer from car to train make it €1 per day, or €2 per day.... to upkeep the carpark. And not for profiteering or making up revenue, like they do at the moment.

So are Irish Rail just money making in their car parks too seeing as the charge about the same?
You obviously never parked in a multistorey cars parks if you think €4 is expensive.

spacetweek

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

True, but €4 per day at the Red Cow is just moneymaking.

If they want to encourage a load of people to transfer from car to train make it €1 per day, or €2 per day.... to upkeep the carpark. And not for profiteering or making up revenue, like they do at the moment.

How do you know what charge would cover costs? Security, cleaning, lighting etc.
I don't know either but your "1 or 2 euro" seems very arbitrary.

Chris_5339762

spacetweek wrote: »

People often balk at having to pay for park and ride parking but what about money saved on petrol, time and stress reduction etc.

True, but €4 per day at the Red Cow is just moneymaking.

If they want to encourage a load of people to transfer from car to train make it €1 per day, or €2 per day.... to upkeep the carpark. And not for profiteering or making up revenue, like they do at the moment.

_Kaiser_

spacetweek wrote: »

Motorists making this journey will need to either start using PT, move closer to Dublin or get a job locally.

Easier said than done really.. I'd be one of those commuting in every day..

- Only moved out of Dublin in the first place because of the ridiculous rental prices. Even with the commuting costs, I'm saving money (I'd need a car anyway so no "capital" costs to save there)

- Unless you work in "An Lar" (I don't) you are looking at maybe 2 hours+ each way to get to work. Public transport isn't exactly reliable or cheap either!

- Getting a job locally probably isn't an option if you work in the finance/tech sector for example as I would. Thanks to the Dublin-centric nature of things, people are commuting from maybe 2 counties away at this stage. Luckily I have flexible hours and work from home rights which make a big difference.

Bottom line is that until public transport improves significantly, with orbital routes linking places like Blanch, Red Cow, Ballymount and Sandyford, it's only really practical on the M7 corridor for those who actually work in the city centre. Otherwise the time lost, extra hassle and cost just makes it wholly unpractical.

There's plenty of land inside/immediate surrounding the M50 that could be developed for residential purposes if the political will was there. But housing is very politicised in this country and there doesn't appear to be any real urgency on the part of our "leaders" to address the core issues (which are deeper than just supply) so in reality 90 minute-2 hour commutes each way are only going to continue for the foreseeable future I'm afraid.

spacetweek

This improvement project will aid long-distance traffic, outbound from Dublin, and local Naas and Sallins issues.
It will absolutely not aid inbound commuter traffic whatsoever.
Motorists making this journey will need to either start using PT, move closer to Dublin or get a job locally.
People often balk at having to pay for park and ride parking but what about money saved on petrol, time and stress reduction etc.

[Deleted User]

Conba wrote: »

That's an interesting option. What car parking space like there? How much?

At 7:15 this morning Sallin's train station car park was filling up fast. It costs €4.50 per day.
If you don't mind a couple of minutes walk, you can park in the Supervalue car park beside the station for €2 per day which would have more empty spaces.

Conba

Walter2016 wrote: »

One option for some is to drive to Sallins and take train from there - esp on a Friday as getting to sallins on a friday is a doddle and you miss the jams on the way home.

That's an interesting option. What car parking space like there? How much?

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we keep water charges out of this thread. If you want to discuss water charges, then start a thread but if it goes the way of previous threads on water charges it will be closed. Water charges are better off in the politics thread or after hours unless specific to infrastructure.

Carawaystick

Walter2016 wrote: »

One option for some is to drive to Sallins and take train from there - esp on a Friday as getting to sallins on a friday is a doddle and you miss the jams on the way home.

From yesterday Sallins is in the short hop zone, so train fares will be very good value at about €8.50 return or 3.56 single with leap card.

If it's 3.56 single, it's 7.12 return...

Walter2016

One option for some is to drive to Sallins and take train from there - esp on a Friday as getting to sallins on a friday is a doddle and you miss the jams on the way home.

From yesterday Sallins is in the short hop zone, so train fares will be very good value at about €8.50 return or 3.56 single with leap card.

benny79

Deedsie wrote: »

What war did the water charges win? Tax payers get to pay for everyone else's services instead of a pay per use charge.

I'd love if someone would arrange a counter protest to the water charges in the new year. Let tax paying grown ups make demands for a change.

I suppose the war was the people actually getting off there holes and making a stand/protesting.. Right or wrong

Anyway thats going off topic..

benny79

By the time its finished, it will be just moving the problem, just like the completion of the Red Cow Roundabout and the newlands fly over..

The only thing people complained about was the water charges and looked how that turned out we won the fight but not the war!! Just shows what people power can do.. This **** doesnt happen in France.. The country hasn't improved at all and the problem with the government is they are all the same as gilly pointed out and get away with it.. so it doesnt matter who gets into power!!

In this day an age we should have a top of the range transport system & health system the blue print is already there with other countries.. No one in power is willing to make a change cause they want an easy life on there fat pay cheques and pensions!!

FFS the health service in Thailand is miles ahead of us!!

marno21

Idbatterim wrote: »

it sounds so horrific, that what difference will one single lane make? it will be at full capacity from opening, then what happens when you hit the gridlocked m50?

sounds to me like they would be better off with one lane as a bus lane for peak hour traffic, express buses taking people to the major employment centres and possibly doing this on the m50 also...

I dont see an alternative until serious solutions are in place like DU and MN...

The extra lane outbound will alleviate the congestion caused by the lane drop outbound at J9. The extra lane inbound as you say will cause traffic to reach the M50 quicker, so the congestion is just moved to the Red Cow interchange.

The other thing you have to consider is that it will alleviate some problems around Naas, with the reconstruction of J10, the construction of the new J9A and the Sallins BP. This will free up some issues at the present Naas North/Naas South junctions, and the relief road around Naas, and in Sallins itself.

Idbatterim

it sounds so horrific, that what difference will one single lane make? it will be at full capacity from opening, then what happens when you hit the gridlocked m50?

sounds to me like they would be better off with one lane as a bus lane for peak hour traffic, express buses taking people to the major employment centres and possibly doing this on the m50 also...

I dont see an alternative until serious solutions are in place like DU and MN...

Middle Man

Geogregor wrote: »

When will the widening really start? I mean when will' we see the diggers on the ground?

I think it's supposed to be April 2017.

Geogregor

When will the widening really start? I mean when will' we see the diggers on the ground?

prunudo

benny79 wrote: »

I am currently saving for a motor bike and lessons as I see no other alternative really...

Motorbike and scooter use should be encouraged more to reduce congestion.
Compared to other EU countries they're seen as a negative here when in reality they are part of the solution.