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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

JupiterKid

Following on from the suggestion of a poster, this thread has been set up to discuss the need for widening the M7.

The section of the M7 IMO in immediate need (really a backlog need) for widening is the section from the Maudlins Interchange at Naas to the M9 interchange - basically the original 1983 Naas Bypass and half of the 1993 Newbridge Bypass. Is this likely to proceed in the near future?

Would the central median be wide enough for widening to D3M here? I'm pretty sure it is wide enough on the Newbridge bypass section but I'm not so sure in the case of the Naas Bypass.

Also, what bridges will need to be demolished and rebuilt? Or would it be more practical to drop the hard shoulder through the existing bridges?

What about the proposal a few years back to build a new junction at on the Naas Bypass at Osberstown? Will it still go ahead?

In the longer term, does anyone see a need to widen the M7 to the N7/M8 junction?

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Middle Man

Wonder should we let the Asians run this country - they could get the entire London Underground built in just over 20 years - look at the Shanghai Metro for example. The Western World is a joke - full of greedy land owners, corruption and litigation.

gilly0512

benny79 wrote: »

I travel from Athy to Dolphin's Barn, S.C.R Dublin 8 any back daily... Mon/Fri.. at peak times. It use to take me 50 mins in the mornings leaving at 7 and going the motorway M9/N7.. This year its gone up to an HR 20 mins.. the way home is/was always an Hr & 30mins.. 2 hrs on a fri.. so also spending 3 hrs a day commuting.. and have tried everything... Train works out dearer and also a bit stressful as I have to rush from work to make it or wait an hr+ for the next 1!! I finish at 5.. Heuston is 15 min cycle hopping the roads out of it... I used to lock my bike there in the bike racks never heard of lockers or a waiting list.. but it still works out the same time wise give or take plus I need a car for everyday life so why have extra expense of train as its cheaper to drive.. an the odd occasion I finish early etc

My route in in the mornings is Athy, Dublin Rd through kilcullen, turn right for punchestown race course pass that straight all the way into rathcoole village then out onto N7, It still takes hr 20mins but moves... been stuck on the motorway for 10/15mins at a time is soul destroying .. It is all back roads and the road isnt great especially this time of year and I have noticed a big increase in traffic this way the last few months..

I would always go home this way on a Fri and if I hear of a crash on the N7! Funny I was listening to Matt Cooper a few months ago and he had a transport expert on, Anyway he said the city & commuting towns will be at a total gridlock in 5 years time that there is no infrastructure in place and if they started something today it would take 5 years to complete ie the N7 upgrade after naas.. and public transport is very poor.. I personally think its just about at gridlock now..

I am currently saving for a motor bike and lessons as I see no other alternative really...

But it's so typical of this country, we close the stable door well after the horse has bolted. It's been said many times that we are governed by fools in this country, no forward thinkers in government, most of those in power are generally gombeens who know how to play the system, with little or no interest in progress. Anyone who shows any kind of initiative or wishes to rock the boat is quickly sidelined, and generally won't ever see any position of power. Dublin city is a mess, gridlocked with cars, a mish mash of public transport that covers a tiny proportion of the city, and don't even start me on their housing strategy. They would much rather thousands of people reluctantly move to the surrounding counties, than god forbid build proper high rise apartment blocks close to public transport and amenities, and most houses that do get built in this city are financially well out of the reach of most ordinary people. They get away with it because we don't complain in this country, if you were to complain to a local politician about how bad your commute was, he/she would probably look at you blankly and walk away wondering what you're on about. I would much rather that they build a proper functioning public transport, but if they're not prepared to do that, then they have to at the very least build another outer ring road, that is probably still required with the M50 and M7 at absolute breaking point and getting worse daily, but sadly they will not do either, and in five years time it will probably take three hours to drive to Dublin from Kildare.

gilly0512

Walter2016 wrote: »

I should charge for this!

I drive about 80k km a year so have worked out many "traffic avoidance" measures.

For evenings, turn off at junction 6 - You'll drive behind the Topaz station, into Kill and through Kill, then at junction 8, go over overpass, past Johnstown garden centre, follow road along by Naas golf club into Sallins, turn left towards Naas, turn right after lights at Supervalu and that road crosses the caragh road, the mondelo road and brings you to the junction just before Toughers at Ladytown.

20-25 minutes max at peak Friday from time you turn off N7 to Pzifer.

Cheers Walter2016, I will definitely give that a try, and the cheque is in the post

benny79

I travel from Athy to Dolphin's Barn, S.C.R Dublin 8 any back daily... Mon/Fri.. at peak times. It use to take me 50 mins in the mornings leaving at 7 and going the motorway M9/N7.. This year its gone up to an HR 20 mins.. the way home is/was always an Hr & 30mins.. 2 hrs on a fri.. so also spending 3 hrs a day commuting.. and have tried everything... Train works out dearer and also a bit stressful as I have to rush from work to make it or wait an hr+ for the next 1!! I finish at 5.. Heuston is 15 min cycle hopping the roads out of it... I used to lock my bike there in the bike racks never heard of lockers or a waiting list.. but it still works out the same time wise give or take plus I need a car for everyday life so why have extra expense of train as its cheaper to drive.. an the odd occasion I finish early etc

My route in in the mornings is Athy, Dublin Rd through kilcullen, turn right for punchestown race course pass that straight all the way into rathcoole village then out onto N7, It still takes hr 20mins but moves... been stuck on the motorway for 10/15mins at a time is soul destroying .. It is all back roads and the road isnt great especially this time of year and I have noticed a big increase in traffic this way the last few months..

I would always go home this way on a Fri and if I hear of a crash on the N7! Funny I was listening to Matt Cooper a few months ago and he had a transport expert on, Anyway he said the city & commuting towns will be at a total gridlock in 5 years time that there is no infrastructure in place and if they started something today it would take 5 years to complete ie the N7 upgrade after naas.. and public transport is very poor.. I personally think its just about at gridlock now..

I am currently saving for a motor bike and lessons as I see no other alternative really...

marno21

It's scary to think how bad things will be when the upgrade works start if this is the measures people are taking to avoid the N7 daily.

Walter2016

gilly2308 wrote: »

Lot of good suggestions there, my choice would be train to Heuston, and then cycle to Clonskeagh, currently on a waiting list for one of the bike lockers in Heuston. I'd rather not drive to Newbridge, as even the extra expense of paying for parking at Newbridge station would come to the guts of €80 a month, whereas I can walk to Kildare train station. Walter2016, when you say an hour to get the train and 145 to Donnybrook, I'm sure that's not totally true, I would presume you're looking at in or around 45 mins on the train to Heuston, and then another 45 mins on the bus to Donnybrook?

At 8am bus is against traffic, Dublin bus says 20min. Probably 1hour 15min all in - and far less stress.

I'd try it one day - tell colleagues you're doing it and may be late/early as its a trial. Remember, monthly / annual train tickets are available on tax saver, so it may be a very good value option if it works.

Walter2016

gilly2308 wrote: »

Walter2016 any shortcuts to avoid the bottlenecks on the M7 in the evening, any way where you could turn off well before Naas, emerging hopefully somewhere around Newbridge?

I should charge for this!

I drive about 80k km a year so have worked out many "traffic avoidance" measures.

For evenings, turn off at junction 6 - You'll drive behind the Topaz station, into Kill and through Kill, then at junction 8, go over overpass, past Johnstown garden centre, follow road along by Naas golf club into Sallins, turn left towards Naas, turn right after lights at Supervalu and that road crosses the caragh road, the mondelo road and brings you to the junction just before Toughers at Ladytown.

20-25 minutes max at peak Friday from time you turn off N7 to Pzifer.

L1011

Deedsie wrote: »

Are they that bad? I cycle a road bike but a guy in work cycles a fold up and I think he does a 10 km each way cycle.

Gilly2038 would be cycling on relatively less busy roads and there is even a short cut through Dara Park in Newbridge that would make it an even quicker cycle.

Yes - they are designed for short distance commuting, not inter-town trips or long distance city cycling with hills.

L1011

On a normal bike, sure.

On a foldup you would have to be certifiably insane.

L1011

Deedsie wrote: »

Another suggestion, cycle from Kildare to Newbridge train station - Newbridge to GCD train - cycle GCD to Clonskeagh.

Implausible distances on a foldup

gilly0512

road_high wrote: »

They have a waiting list for Bike lockers? Jesus, Irish rail keep getting better...I've always found there to be lots and lots of space at Heuston, lots of big expanses of space that could be condensed if they are stuck for space for example for bike lockers.

It's laughable, as far as I know there are the sum total of 80 lockers in Heuston, so I can only imagine that my chances of getting one are slim and none. Yeah you would think that they could would set up a secure, covered location in Heuston with space for hundreds if not thousands of bikes, charge a €10 a month, and I'm sure it would more than pay for itself. This is not rocket science, but might just get a lot more people out of their cars in this gridlocked city of ours.

road_high

gilly2308 wrote: »

Lot of good suggestions there, my choice would be train to Heuston, and then cycle to Clonskeagh, currently on a waiting list for one of the bike lockers in Heuston. I'd rather not drive to Newbridge, as even the extra expense of paying for parking at Newbridge station would come to the guts of €80 a month, whereas I can walk to Kildare train station. Walter2016, when you say an hour to get the train and 145 to Donnybrook, I'm sure that's not totally true, I would presume you're looking at in or around 45 mins on the train to Heuston, and then another 45 mins on the bus to Donnybrook?

They have a waiting list for Bike lockers? Jesus, Irish rail keep getting better...I've always found there to be lots and lots of space at Heuston, lots of big expanses of space that could be condensed if they are stuck for space for example for bike lockers.

gilly0512

Walter2016 wrote: »

Here's an alternative to skip the M9 bottleneck.

Check aa roadwatch route planner first. If dark red is showing beyond the m9 junction go for plan b

https://www.theaa.ie/routes/#/r/

Plan b

Coming from m7 before Newbridge. Turn off at Newbridge, go over motorway, take 1st exit towards Athgarvan along by curragh.

At primary school and ramps, vere left towards Athgarvan inn. Go straight through lights and continue along for 1.5km to Newbridge rugby club. 100m past the rugby club turn left and continue all the way to end of this stretch (past lidl warehouse) down to pzifer. Turn right onto Naas road and continue til end and rejoin M7 at Naas north.

This route takes 12-14 minutes even on Monday morning. A clear motorway takes 6 minutes. (yes I've timed it)

At the least, you get past the M9 bottleneck.

Walter2016 any shortcuts to avoid the bottlenecks on the M7 in the evening, any way where you could turn off well before Naas, emerging hopefully somewhere around Newbridge?

gilly0512

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Yes and no. By 9/10am the bulk of the traffic has cleared alright but in my experience the evening rush (on the M50 and N7 to Naas) doesn't die off till closer to 7 at this stage

Friday evenings are worse again.. might as well wait til 7:30/8pm most weeks.

Yeah Friday is a nightmare on the M7, it's bad at the best of times any weekday evening, but worse again on a Friday, and stay well away on a Bank Holiday Friday.

gilly0512

Walter2016 wrote: »

Nothing a nice cold pint in ashtons can't fix!

Lot of good suggestions there, my choice would be train to Heuston, and then cycle to Clonskeagh, currently on a waiting list for one of the bike lockers in Heuston. I'd rather not drive to Newbridge, as even the extra expense of paying for parking at Newbridge station would come to the guts of €80 a month, whereas I can walk to Kildare train station. Walter2016, when you say an hour to get the train and 145 to Donnybrook, I'm sure that's not totally true, I would presume you're looking at in or around 45 mins on the train to Heuston, and then another 45 mins on the bus to Donnybrook?

Walter2016

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Yes and no. By 9/10am the bulk of the traffic has cleared alright but in my experience the evening rush (on the M50 and N7 to Naas) doesn't die off till closer to 7 at this stage

Friday evenings are worse again.. might as well wait til 7:30/8pm most weeks.

Nothing a nice cold pint in ashtons can't fix!

_Kaiser_

Walter2016 wrote: »

If "clonskeagh" means beaver row, then train to heuston and bus 145 to donnybrook church. About an hour.

If you could start at 10am and finish at 6, it would be a doddle to drive.

Yes and no. By 9/10am the bulk of the traffic has cleared alright but in my experience the evening rush (on the M50 and N7 to Naas) doesn't die off till closer to 7 at this stage

Friday evenings are worse again.. might as well wait til 7:30/8pm most weeks.

Walter2016

gilly2308 wrote: »

I'm commuting from Kildare Town to Clonskeagh, had it easy for years as I had a job in Tallaght where I worked shifts, and most of the time my commute was a maximum of 40 mins. Now it's anything from 2 to 3 hours, the M7 is insane in the morning, M50 is not great either (I actually think the M7 is worse than the M50) and then Dundrum can be awful as well. Going home it's not much better, I honestly wouldn't have taken this job had I known how bad it would be, but I will start taking the train in the new year as a test, as it couldn't be anywhere near as bad as driving. I'm actually of the opinion now that when the widening of the M7 is complete, that the M50 will just grind to a halt, as you will now have traffic from the M7/N7 hitting the M50 a lot quicker in the morning, although the widening should help massively with going home in the evening, as hopefully the daily tailbacks from Kill/Johnstown to Junction 11 will be a thing of the past.

If "clonskeagh" means beaver row, then train to heuston and bus 145 to donnybrook church. About an hour.

If you could start at 10am and finish at 6, it would be a doddle to drive.

road_high

Don't the Dublin Coaches (green) go to/from Dundrum now as well, linking with the Red Cow and their services to Kildare etc?

_Kaiser_

Idbatterim wrote: »

bring them where they actually want to go i.e. dundrum,sandyford and leopardstown I am assuming, the rail line is no use for these employment centres...

Spot on..

As with Dublin Bus, the obsession with dumping people in An Lar needs to end.

A sufficiently sized P&R facility at say Citywest (and Blanch, Liffey Valley, Swords), with a direct two-way corridor between them running frequent buses/trams/DARTS/whatever to the major business parks on the outskirts (Sandyford, Blanch/Mulhuddart etc) would do wonders.

spacetweek

Deedsie wrote: »

Tell me to mind my own business but you could:
Drive to Newbridge train station, ppt train to Pearse, 15 minute walk to Stephens Green Luas stop to Clonskeagh? 15 to 20 mins.

I know it's a pain in the arse i would pick that a thousand times ahead of sitting in chronic traffic congestion.

You could get a fold up bike? Cycle from Pearse or Grand Canal Dock station to clonskeagh. Fresh air and exercise is better than sitting stationary in a car for 3 hours.

Next year gilly will also have the possibility of using the new luas to go Heuston->OCS->clonskeagh.

spacetweek

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If there was a bit of joined up thinking, they could build a bus station at parkwest station with direct on ramps to the M50. Then commuters could park at any of the stations west of the M50, get the train to Parkwest and then pick up a but that will be able to go directly to the "satellite" business parks.

That idea was floated years ago, but I haven't heard anything in a while.

road_high

gilly2308 wrote: »

I'm commuting from Kildare Town to Clonskeagh, had it easy for years as I had a job in Tallaght where I worked shifts, and most of the time my commute was a maximum of 40 mins. Now it's anything from 2 to 3 hours, the M7 is insane in the morning, M50 is not great either (I actually think the M7 is worse than the M50) and then Dundrum can be awful as well. Going home it's not much better, I honestly wouldn't have taken this job had I known how bad it would be, but I will start taking the train in the new year as a test, as it couldn't be anywhere near as bad as driving. I'm actually of the opinion now that when the widening of the M7 is complete, that the M50 will just grind to a halt, as you will now have traffic from the M7/N7 hitting the M50 a lot quicker in the morning, although the widening should help massively with going home in the evening, as hopefully the daily tailbacks from Kill/Johnstown to Junction 11 will be a thing of the past.

That's not even that far...I'd thought you were coming from much further when I read this!
Doubt the train could be any worse. What's Kildare, 30 mins into Heuston. Not sure what bus you'd get from there though to Clonskeagh...

gilly0512

road_high wrote: »

How far are you commuting from? 3 hours is insane, I couldn't do that! Working from home an option at all? You'd be wrecked just travelling.

I'm commuting from Kildare Town to Clonskeagh, had it easy for years as I had a job in Tallaght where I worked shifts, and most of the time my commute was a maximum of 40 mins. Now it's anything from 2 to 3 hours, the M7 is insane in the morning, M50 is not great either (I actually think the M7 is worse than the M50) and then Dundrum can be awful as well. Going home it's not much better, I honestly wouldn't have taken this job had I known how bad it would be, but I will start taking the train in the new year as a test, as it couldn't be anywhere near as bad as driving. I'm actually of the opinion now that when the widening of the M7 is complete, that the M50 will just grind to a halt, as you will now have traffic from the M7/N7 hitting the M50 a lot quicker in the morning, although the widening should help massively with going home in the evening, as hopefully the daily tailbacks from Kill/Johnstown to Junction 11 will be a thing of the past.

benny79

Deleted User wrote: »

If there was a bit of joined up thinking, they could build a bus station at parkwest station with direct on ramps to the M50. Then commuters could park at any of the stations west of the M50, get the train to Parkwest and then pick up a but that will be able to go directly to the "satellite" business parks.

Good idea but if this did happen you would be hit with 2 charges 1 for train & then 1 for the bus... Cause public transport is a pure rip off... like if you commute to Dublin park at red cow, get luas etc you have to pay to park, then pay for the luas.. the train is a bit out of the way for me 20 min walk to train station (if I drive you have extra charge of paying to park) then 20/30 min walk from Heuston so if you get bus or luas there's another charge thats 3 in total a day... Some people say get the yearly train ticket cause of the tax back etc but its the extra hassle.. get to train station and back + the extra charges... The powers at be dont take this into account hence why traffic is so back...

Solution- A long way off and may never happen but I think a underground tube.. its proven to work and especially as Ireland been a small country.. I lived in Australia for 2 years and the tube was brilliant! cheap, regular and went everywhere I never felt the need for a car! works in London too....and most of all takes traffic off the roads..

[Deleted User]

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Considering there is already an under utilised train line hitting almost all population centres served by the M7, I'm not sure what a bus lane will do.

Idbatterim wrote: »

bring them where they actually want to go i.e. dundrum,sandyford and leopardstown I am assuming, the rail line is no use for these employment centres...

If there was a bit of joined up thinking, they could build a bus station at parkwest station with direct on ramps to the M50. Then commuters could park at any of the stations west of the M50, get the train to Parkwest and then pick up a but that will be able to go directly to the "satellite" business parks.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Considering there is already an under utilised train line hitting almost all population centres served by the M7, I'm not sure what a bus lane will do.

The rail line until last week terminated at a station well outside the city centre in an area most people don't want to go

If DART Underground was built they could get off at St Stephens Green and use the Luas to get to Sandyford, that option is not there st present

Walter2016

Here's an alternative to skip the M9 bottleneck.

Check aa roadwatch route planner first. If dark red is showing beyond the m9 junction go for plan b

https://www.theaa.ie/routes/#/r/

Plan b

Coming from m7 before Newbridge. Turn off at Newbridge, go over motorway, take 1st exit towards Athgarvan along by curragh.

At primary school and ramps, vere left towards Athgarvan inn. Go straight through lights and continue along for 1.5km to Newbridge rugby club. 100m past the rugby club turn left and continue all the way to end of this stretch (past lidl warehouse) down to pzifer. Turn right onto Naas road and continue til end and rejoin M7 at Naas north.

This route takes 12-14 minutes even on Monday morning. A clear motorway takes 6 minutes. (yes I've timed it)

At the least, you get past the M9 bottleneck.

Idbatterim

Considering there is already an under utilised train line hitting almost all population centres served by the M7, I'm not sure what a bus lane will do.

bring them where they actually want to go i.e. dundrum,sandyford and leopardstown I am assuming, the rail line is no use for these employment centres...

AugustusMinimus

Idbatterim wrote: »

if the situation is this bad, could they designate one of the new lanes during peak hours, for buses only? have it service areas directly like Sandyford, leopardstown, dundrum shopping centre or wherever a large amount of commuters are going.

This route sounds so bad, that you probably could get people of of the car with an express bus...

Considering there is already an under utilised train line hitting almost all population centres served by the M7, I'm not sure what a bus lane will do.