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The alt right - Mod Warning in OP

20Cent

What is the alt right?
Been hearing the term used more frequently since Trump has been elected.
I thought it was just milo and Katie Hopkins type trolling but it seems to be something bigger than that.

Mod: There have been a fair few mod warnings on this thread now. Any posts which fall under the standard of discussion of the forum will likely be deleted and will face mod action. These include but are not limited to one-liners, videodumps and insults. Please consult the charter if unsure or contact a mod.

Thanks.

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Brian?

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Sounds like we're pretty much on the same page here to be fair.

Brian?

oscarBravo wrote: »

It might help if they could demonstrate this oppression and disenfranchisement, but they seem to be too busy deriding "cucks" and "SJWs" to get around to actually making any cogent arguments.

They can't demonstrate the oppression because it doesn't exist

They see groups campaigning for equal rights, while no one is campaigning for them and believe this means they are somehow being oppressed. When what it actually means is that they are already in the dominant position.

What rights do the alt-right believe they are losing?

johnnyskeleton

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

The forced mixing of seperate and incompatible cultures is leading to social unrest and increased polarisation and division.

It seems obvious really that that would be the ultimate result.

Liberals say that if Islam, or gay culture, is incompatible with the West then the West must change.

Many non-liberals are horrified at that admission.

A majority do not want our societies to change. A majority reject gay culture and multiculturalism.

Politics has proven itself to be incapable of solving this problem, or even of addressing this problem.

We will bring in hate crime laws. They will make no difference. We will end up with a fractured society, at war with itself, or at risk of war with itself.

I have no intention of accepting the death cult that is Islam. I am ashamed that so many of my countrymen do accept it, and that so many refuse to stand up against slavery and oppression.

That is why liberals are so hated nowadays. Because it is inevitable that they will cause war.

Mod Note:

This is your second warning for making unsubstantiated generalisations of this nature. It's borderline trolling at this stage. Any more and you will be banned.

oscarBravo

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

It might help if they could demonstrate this oppression and disenfranchisement, but they seem to be too busy deriding "cucks" and "SJWs" to get around to actually making any cogent arguments.

Chips Lovell

I'm not sure debate is well served by emotive generalisations such as describing Islam as a "death cult". Certainly the extremist fringe could be described in that fashion, but the majority of muslims are decent law abiding people.

I'm unsure what the stuff about "gay culture" means.

Zubeneschamali

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

A majority reject gay culture and multiculturalism.

In the last actual test of this statement, Irish voters passed a referendum to allow same sex marriage 62-38 %.

So, in Ireland at least, you are wrong.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Professor Moriarty

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

The forced mixing of seperate and incompatible cultures is leading to social unrest and increased polarisation and division.

It seems obvious really that that would be the ultimate result.

Liberals say that if Islam, or gay culture, is incompatible with the West then the West must change.

Many non-liberals are horrified at that admission.

A majority do not want our societies to change. A majority reject gay culture and multiculturalism.

Politics has proven itself to be incapable of solving this problem, or even of addressing this problem.

We will bring in hate crime laws. They will make no difference. We will end up with a fractured society, at war with itself, or at risk of war with itself.

I have no intention of accepting the death cult that is Islam. I am ashamed that so many of my countrymen do accept it, and that so many refuse to stand up against slavery and oppression.

That is why liberals are so hated nowadays. Because it is inevitable that they will cause war.

How has 'gay culture' affected you?

Muhammed_1

The forced mixing of seperate and incompatible cultures is leading to social unrest and increased polarisation and division.

It seems obvious really that that would be the ultimate result.

Liberals say that if Islam, or gay culture, is incompatible with the West then the West must change.

Many non-liberals are horrified at that admission.

A majority do not want our societies to change. A majority reject gay culture and multiculturalism.

Politics has proven itself to be incapable of solving this problem, or even of addressing this problem.

We will bring in hate crime laws. They will make no difference. We will end up with a fractured society, at war with itself, or at risk of war with itself.

I have no intention of accepting the death cult that is Islam. I am ashamed that so many of my countrymen do accept it, and that so many refuse to stand up against slavery and oppression.

That is why liberals are so hated nowadays. Because it is inevitable that they will cause war.

Brian?

Lt Dan wrote: »

The issue is the newly discovered and artificially created categories. Is "bi curious" a new one, or was that just a South Park joke?

What issue? You don't think sexual identity is evolving to include sub categories? You don't think said sub categories deserve respect?

I personally don't care how someone self identifies, it cost me nothing.

Brian?

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

But here's the thing. Many on the alt right see themselves as marginalised and disenfranchised struggling against the dominant elite. Falsely so in my opinion.

The alt right, from what I can ascertain, are unifying against this perceived oppression from the left, feminists and elites, amongst others.

I'm not even sure I disagree with you, by the way. I may have a poor understanding for what modern identity politics are.

Lt Dan

Brian? wrote: »

So what do we call the tenancy of the right to pick marginalised, previously oppressed groups as the enemy and unify against them? Is that not identity politics?

The issue is the newly discovered and artificially created categories. Is "bi curious" a new one, or was that just a South Park joke?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

K-9

Mod:
Alastair banned for ignoring mod warnings about the standard of posts.

If posters keep making statements such as multiculturalism is bad or good, without providing any back up, that isn't debate, that's soap boxing and slogan shouting. If that's all somebody is here to contribute I'd suggest finding another forum to post in.

Brian?

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

So what do we call the tenancy of the right to pick marginalised, previously oppressed groups as the enemy and unify against them? Is that not identity politics?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Brian?

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I disagree. In order to fight oppression solidarity must be forged not just among the specific grouping but with others outside of said grouping. In the Marxist tradition the grouping would welcome outside help, e.g. Solidarity between the LGBT community and the organised labour movement. The 2 elements are then better able to fight oppression as they aren't as easily dismissed.

I don't believe the above is "identity politics" as I understand it. Identity politics is defining a common enemy rather than a common goal. For example Trump rallied people around punishing "the Washington elite" and the "corrupt media".

[Deleted User]

Identity Politics leads to polarization. Directly.

Polarization makes appeasement and compromise difficult.

Without appeasement and compromise, any groupings or societies whatsoever will struggle.

We are fishtailing towards extremism on both 'wings'.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/06/22/key-facts-partisanship/

For the first time in surveys dating to 1992,majorities in both parties express not just unfavorable but very unfavorable views of the other party.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Brian?

midnight city wrote: »

The liberals may not have created it but they certainly are pushing it very hard now. The alt right is too extreme for me. I am not alt right and I am not liberal left either. I am somewhere in the middle. I am pro immigration but i would like to see it slowed down and ensure we can integrate people better.

Both sides are increasingly using identity politics. It's a wrong-headed move IMO.

Brian?

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Identity politics wasn't created by "the right" in the 60s, it was used to maximal effect by Niton though. It's a lot older than the 50s even. Every far right movement of th 30s used identity politics to create fear and division.

It's so old, I doubt it could actually be pinned on either side.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

midnight city

Brian? wrote: »

I find it interesting that you don't consider yourself part of the alt right, but you have trotted out so many of their nonsense talking points.

"The left", whoever they are, did not create identity politics. Nixon was the first politician to use them on the national stage when he used the Southern strategy in 68. Reagan loved some identity politics as well, his famous "welfare queen" fabrication.

The liberals may not have created it but they certainly are pushing it very hard now. The alt right is too extreme for me. I am not alt right and I am not liberal left either. I am somewhere in the middle. I am pro immigration but i would like to see it slowed down and ensure we can integrate people better.

Brian?

midnight city wrote: »

The left has created so much identity politics that it is inevitable white people would end up having to form their own identity too over there. Look how much the media and social media refer to white people. 'Straight white men', white people blamed for voting trump in, white people being attacked in increasing racist attacks, White privilege, etc. Even some dirt poor white man is considered to have privilege. These people are forcing an identity on ordinary white people where before they didn't think too much of it.

I find it interesting that you don't consider yourself part of the alt right, but you have trotted out so many of their nonsense talking points.

"The left", whoever they are, did not create identity politics. Nixon was the first politician to use them on the national stage when he used the Southern strategy in 68. Reagan loved some identity politics as well, his famous "welfare queen" fabrication.

johnnyskeleton

alastair wrote: »

Such nonsense. On every level.

Deleted User wrote: »

Well argued.

alastair wrote: »

Oh well. I guess someone is just going to have to come to terms with that disappointment.

alastair wrote: »

So... any chance of you supporting your previous claim with some substance?

midnight city wrote: »

Any chance of you addressing my points.

Mod note:

None of these posts are serious discussion.

midnight city

alastair wrote: »

So... any chance of you supporting your previous claim with some substance?

Any chance of you addressing my points.

alastair

midnight city wrote: »

The left has created so much identity politics that it is inevitable white people would end up having to form their own identity too over there. Look how much the media and social media refer to white people. 'Straight white men', white people blamed for voting trump in, white people being attacked in increasing racist attacks, White privilege, etc. Even some dirt poor white man is considered to have privilege. These people are forcing an identity on ordinary white people where before they didn't think too much of it.

So... any chance of you supporting your previous claim with some substance?

midnight city

The left has created so much identity politics that it is inevitable white people would end up having to form their own identity too over there. Look how much the media and social media refer to white people. 'Straight white men', white people blamed for voting trump in, white people being attacked in increasing racist attacks, White privilege, etc. Even some dirt poor white man is considered to have privilege. These people are forcing an identity on ordinary white people where before they didn't think too much of it.

alastair

midnight city wrote: »

Just because there has been racist groups set up doesn't mean every future group advocating for white Americans is a hateful group.

That's a comprehensive listing of white nationalist groups in the US. Not exactly a great record so far. And nothing to stop any new group setting up for any purpose, so you'll really have to produce some kind of evidence to support your claim.

beans

One interesting core belief of these people, 'Race Realism', revolves around IQ averages. They'll tell you that white folk score on average a whole standard deviation higher than blacks, for example. This has been used as a scientific basis upon which anti-black bias can draw for legitimacy.

The same data sees Ashkenazi Jews scoring higher than whites, so logically the position held above would also be an argument for Jewish Supremacy. Which makes little sense in view of the alt-right position on Jews (which involves ovens).

I suppose my point is that this supports the accusation that alt-right philosophical thought is essentially a scaffold around old-fashioned white supremacy, designed to make it seem logical, rational, inevitable even. "You can't honestly look at the data without coming to this conclusion" is often said.