The alt right - Mod Warning in OP

Our government is betraying the Irish people by putting the interests of foreigners ahead of Irish people.

One Syrian is too many if he takes the house or the bed of an Irish person.

I hope Fine Gael and Fianna Fail are voted out at the next election.

I know they won't be but an increasing number of ordinary people want the Irish Government to provide necessary services to Irish people, instead of virtue signalling and scouring the world for foreigners to help.

Poor Irish people deserve representation too.

Amazingfun

alastair wrote: »

Except that you did:

Again: You are lying as that was not my original post.
This is a stupid exchange and you seem to enjoy a wide latitude on here for trolling, ironically!

ancapailldorcha

alastair wrote: »

So... that would be speaking on behalf of others. As I said.

Amazingfun wrote: »

lol, no it wasn't. I made zero mention of anyone else in my post, that's all you. And why you are so obsessed with this boring point is anyone's guess. YOU jumped in to claim "nobody" agreed, something you have no way of knowing in the first place.

Bye now

alastair wrote: »

Except that you did:

Amazingfun wrote: »

Again: You are lying as that was not my original post.
This is a stupid exchange and you seem to enjoy a wide latitude on here for trolling, ironically!

Amazingfun and alastair, stop bickering.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/opinion/sunday/reddit-and-the-god-emperor-of-the-internet.html

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Our government is betraying the Irish people by putting the interests of foreigners ahead of Irish people.

That is quite the statement. Our Government is certainly aiding 'foreigners' above and beyond the aid that they offer directly to some of her own residents, but the situations that those people find themselves in are quite different.

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

One Syrian is too many if he takes the house or the bed of an Irish person.

This is an interesting point. I wonder if it is worth trying to couch an actual analysis of this out of you?
Are there are many beds or houses that have been offered to refugees instead of Irish people? (regardless of need, simple binary)

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

I hope Fine Gael and Fianna Fail are voted out at the next election.
I know they won't be but an increasing number of ordinary people want the Irish Government to provide necessary services to Irish people, instead of virtue signalling and scouring the world for foreigners to help.

Scouring?

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Poor Irish people deserve representation too.

Do they not get it? Ireland with one of the most redistributive system in the OECD. One of the highest net-transfers as a percent of almost all countries? One of the biggest effects on GINI due to transfers in the Western World?

http://igees.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/The-Distribution-of-Income-Post-Tax-and-Transfers.pdf

legocrazy505

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Our government is betraying the Irish people by putting the interests of foreigners ahead of Irish people.

One Syrian is too many if he takes the house or the bed of an Irish person.

I hope Fine Gael and Fianna Fail are voted out at the next election.

I know they won't be but an increasing number of ordinary people want the Irish Government to provide necessary services to Irish people, instead of virtue signalling and scouring the world for foreigners to help.

Poor Irish people deserve representation too.

What have you been smoking? I give you the facts that Ireland is ahead of other EU nations when it comes to deporting people. We've taken less than 50 of the 4000 refugees we're supposed to be taking. See the link I provided earlier.

Where are you getting this idea that they are taking houses of Irish people? Could you provide evidence of that? No, probably not.

Fianna Fail aren't even in government....

I'm a foreigner, by the way, just want to get that out there. :P I'm British born. Where are you getting this idea though that the Irish government is opening the floodgates while poor old Mary can't get the services she needs.

You know why people can't get the services, it's not immigration, it's poor policy of successive centrist and centre-right governments.

Anyone who thinks the government is providing palaces and glorious services to immigrants is beyond delusional. You do know thousands of asylum seekers live in "direct provision centres", they aren't living in luxury. I'm totally fine with someone who is critical of an open border policy but the claim Ireland is suffering from it is unfounded.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/lives-in-limbo

Irish people deserve representation? Please tell me has Enda come out and said the Irish from now on will be second to immigrants? What policies suggest it?

You are spouting countless claims without any evidence, provide a link, a quote, something that isn't just BS.

And before someone goes "all snowflakes da lot of ye!" any reasonable person should be annoyed at this kind of carry on. If you just start claiming things without actually backing it up you really aren't remotely informed enough to act like your opinion is valid.

Inquitus

Inquitus wrote: »

Go to https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/ for a true insight into the Alt Right at ground level

The NYT did an article on this subreddit and it's possible impact on the election.

It's not a bad read.

On the morning of Nov. 9, a moderator who goes by the handle OhSnapYouGotServed posted on a Reddit topic page called The_Donald: “How does it feel, centipedes? The God Emperor said that we would get tired of winning. Are you tired of winning yet? Feel vindicated, centipedes. It’s over and there is nothing they can do about it. We are the future.”

I had said.
I know they won't be but an increasing number of ordinary people want the Irish Government to provide necessary services to Irish people, instead of virtue signalling and scouring the world for foreigners to help.

Deleted User wrote: »

Scouring?

Yes.

from google.
define scouring
subject (a place, text, etc.) to a thorough search in order to locate something.

Perfectly cromulent use of english by me.

super_furry

I'm interested in hearing of these houses and beds that are being taken from Irish people and given to Syrians.

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

I had said.
I know they won't be but an increasing number of ordinary people want the Irish Government to provide necessary services to Irish people, instead of virtue signalling and scouring the world for foreigners to help.
Yes.
from google.
define scouring
subject (a place, text, etc.) to a thorough search in order to locate something.
Perfectly cromulent use of english by me.

I disagree, but will let it go....

What of all of the rest of the issues I've raised?

From your cognitive dissonance on the difference between the lack of Sinn Fein's policies on limiting daily calorie intake and on the lack of annual immigrant limit.

To the asserted but unsupported notion that the state is serving others above and beyond her own citizens, and that the 'Poor Irish' people are unrepresented in their own nation.

Any responses? Rebuttals? Opinions?

Walter H Price

legocrazy505 wrote: »

Is Trump really those things though? In my opinion, the alt-right have supported a fraud just like the people who claim Hillary was the best option ever because she's a woman, experienced and "cares for us".

I think he has a pretty misogynistic view of women hahahaha hard to argue with that but its ok, is he racist possibly possibly not hard to tell weather he actual dislike immigrant and Muslims or weather he was playing to the crowd some of his recent appointees like Steve Bannon definitely do so hopefully it will swing towards the former and we will see stronger borders in the US and maybe even a ban on Muslims or some form of register, because where america leads Europe follows and we need closed borders right now.

You're right Trump could be a total fraud , there's a very real chance and Pence is definitely your stereotypical christian conservative but Trump at least offered a tiny chance that we would see shift to the right and a move away from the establishment in they way that Hilly represented more of the same ol same ol main stream PC establishment bullsh!t

wrote:

One Syrian is too many if he takes the house or the bed of an Irish person.

Deleted User wrote: »

...
This is an interesting point. I wonder if it is worth trying to couch an actual analysis of this out of you?

...

It is very simple.

The Irish government should house all Irish people, or explain why they cannot be housed, before a single house is allocated to foreigners.

It is a very extreme position I will grant you.

My actual position is far less extreme. Perhaps the government can agree to house some genuine refugees but the government must begin to engage on these issues or they will find themselves voted out.

The media can cheerlead the government and pretend the government do no wrong but more and more people are disregarding what the lying papers say. The Leugenpresse, as they're called in Germany.

You cannot win a debate for all time by lying. Eventually the lies are exposed for what they are.

Many so called refugees are liars and scammers. It is not correct to ignore that.

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

It is very simple.
The Irish government should house all Irish people, or explain why they cannot be housed, before a single house is allocated to foreigners.
It is a very extreme position I will grant you.

I understand the ideal. Its not confusing.

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

My actual position is far less extreme. Perhaps the government can agree to house some genuine refugees but the government must begin to engage on these issues or they will find themselves voted out.

That is exactly, and I mean exactly, what the Government has set out to do, and pretty much has always set out to do. Unfortunately they are not able to deliver on absolutely everything that they set out to do as they are constrained by an awful lot of things. (cash being a topical one of course).

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

The media can cheerlead the government and pretend the government do no wrong but more and more people are disregarding what the lying papers say. The Leugenpresse, as they're called in Germany.

The Government do tonnes wrong, they are just people making decisions. They are not fallible.

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

You cannot win a debate for all time by lying. Eventually the lies are exposed for what they are.

This is an interesting point to enter in here. Perhaps worth bookmarking.

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Many so called refugees are liars and scammers. It is not correct to ignore that.

The vast majority of refugees that apply for asylum in Ireland are not accepted as such. This unfortunately offers us two possibilities. A - That you are correct (which I think is true) or B - That we are over-zealous in our determination of their status (which I hope is not the case).

It's not ignored, in fact it's quite well known, as the links offered to the 'MSM' / 'Lying Papers' / 'Leugenpresse' in this thread show.

Walter H Price wrote: »

because where america leads Europe follows

It does? Nope - it really doesn't.

Walter H Price wrote: »

and we need closed borders right now.

Not a view the electorate hold. Nor a view that actually makes any sense on any level.

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

The media can cheerlead the government and pretend the government do no wrong but more and more people are disregarding what the lying papers say. The Leugenpresse, as they're called in Germany.

By a small group of reactionaries, who delight in dragging up some old nazi lexicon. Sure.

oscarBravo

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

The media can cheerlead the government and pretend the government do no wrong...

If you think "the media" (what media?) pretend the government do no wrong, then - with the greatest of respect - there's not a great deal of point taking anything else you've said seriously.

oscarBravo wrote: »

If you think "the media" (what media?) pretend the government do no wrong, then - with the greatest of respect - there's not a great deal of point taking anything else you've said seriously.

Perhaps this is another example of 'MSM-phobia'.

I would support a straight forward anti-immigration candidate.

There are very few, if any.

Just like the liberal left and the media failed to see the support for Brexit or for Trump you also fail to see the lack of support for immigration policies in this country.

People are pointing out that Ireland in fact isn't a great destination for refugees, as we use Direct Provision and we refuse asylum to large numbers of people. But those people stay here in secret even after failing in their applications.

Our politicians are often falling over each other to support immigration and asylum seekers in public. They certainly describe anti-immigration policies as racist and wrong, despite the fact that they follow those policies themselves to some degree.

Irsih politicians are devoid of vision or of statesmanship. Weak insipid self interested puppets of corporations and foreign governments. Enda Kenny is not someone to be proud of.

Like Katie said, I'd rather be grabbed by the pussy than be led by one.

Enda Kenny anyone?

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

I would support a straight forward anti-immigration candidate.

There are very few, if any.

Just like the liberal left and the media failed to see the support for Brexit or for Trump you also fail to see the lack of support for immigration policies in this country.

You seem to fail to see the lack of support for immigration control platform candidates in this country. Because they certainly put themselves up for election, and repeatedly lose their deposits.

People vote for the platforms they prefer. Your views are not electorally popular.

Walter H Price

alastair wrote: »

It does? Nope - it really doesn't.

Not a view the electorate hold. Nor a view that actually makes any sense on any level.

Ok lets wait and see shall we .... We've had BREXIT, Trump , Le Pen is next , then Wilders , then Mama Merkels finished in Germany ... lets see how few people want an end to the open border madness

In the meantime no point arguing.

oscarBravo

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

I would support a straight forward anti-immigration candidate.

There are very few, if any.

They pop up from time to time. Problem (for them) is, nobody votes for them. Which goes to show that, contrary to what you seem to believe, immigration just isn't that big an issue for the average Irish voter.

oscarBravo

Walter H Price wrote: »

... lets see how few people want an end to the open border madness

What open border madness? We don't have open borders.

Chips Lovell

I don't really see that our politicians are "falling over themselves" to admit asylum seekers since 90% of claims are rejected.

We've barely managed to take in more than a 250 Syrian refugees. Germany has taken in 600k. There's more than a million in Lebanon.

We definitely need more social housing, but we keep voting for right wing parties, who historically wouldn't be too keen on the idea.

super_furry

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

The Leugenpresse, as they're called in Germany.

Were called in Germany during, as I'm sure your know, the Nazi era. It's a word that's now used by Neo Nazis in Germany and one that has recently been adopted by American white supremacists and ant-Semites.

Walter H Price wrote: »

Ok lets wait and see shall we .... We've had BREXIT, Trump , Le Pen is next , then Wilders , then Mama Merkels finished in Germany ... lets see how few people want an end to the open border madness

In the meantime no point arguing.

Every point in debating the merits of your position. Brexit is indicative of little tbh - most people weren't clear what the hell they were voting for, and there's a large degree of buyers remorse now it's becoming clearer. Le Pen isn't going to win the presidency, and the FN have fared poorly in parliamentary elections, where actual power resides. Merkel isn't going anywhere based on the polling to date, and the far right remains a niche that most voters reject.

Zubeneschamali

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

Irsih politicians are devoid of vision or of statesmanship.

I think a politician could pull a certain number of votes with an anti-immigrant, anti-welfare, anti-tax, pro-death penalty reactionary platform.

Not sure if the number of grumpy old codgers would be enough for a quota anywhere, though.

Walter H Price

oscarBravo wrote: »

What open border madness? We don't have open borders.

That's literally exactly what we have with the EU, free movement of trade and people + refugee quotas

alastair wrote: »

Every point in debating the merits of your position. Brexit is indicative of little tbh - most people weren't clear what the hell they were voting for, and there's a large degree of buyers remorse now it's becoming clearer. Le Pen isn't going to win the presidency, and the FN have fared poorly in parliamentary elections, where actual power resides. Merkel isn't going anywhere based on the polling to date, and the far right remains a niche that most voters reject.

I think it nieve to just say people didn't know what they were voting for it was an in out referendum and it was heavily influenced by the British public's rejection of the open door immigration policy in Europe. French people are sick of the site of refugee camps at their ports and in their major cities whatch what happens there when Le Pen wins.

Skullface McGubbin

alastair wrote: »

By a small group of reactionaries, who delight in dragging up some old nazi lexicon. Sure.

The term Lugenpresse (Lying Press) predates the Nazis by decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lying_press

Wikipedia wrote: »

History

The compound word Lügenpresse has been used intermittently since the 19th century in political polemics in Germany, by a wide range of groups and movements in a variety of debates and conflicts. Isolated uses can be traced back as far as the Vomarz period.The term gained traction in the March 1848 Revolution when Catholic circles employed it to attack the rising, hostile liberal press. In the Franco-German War (1870–71) and particularly World War 1 (1914–18) German intellectuals and journalists used the term to denounce what they believed was enemy war propaganda. The Evanglischer Pressedienst, to cite but one example, made its mission the fight against the "lying press" which it considered to be the "strongest weapon of the enemy". After the war, German-speaking Jewish Marxists such as Karl Radek and Alexander Parvus vilified "the bourgeois lying press" as part of their class struggle rhetoric. The Nazis adopted the term for their propaganda against the Jewish, communist and later the foreign press. During the protests of 1968, left-wing students disparaged the liberal-conservative Axel Springer publishing house, notably its flagship daily Bild, as a "lying press".

Note: adopted. Not invented.

Chips Lovell

The Nazis didn't invent the swastika either, but adopted it. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't be questionable to adopt such a loaded insignia as your own.

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

I would support a straight forward anti-immigration candidate.

Can I ask why?