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El Presidente Trump

Kermit.de.frog

It's happened folks. You are only waking up but it has happened. A genuine unstable idiot has become president of the US.

I will be asleep as you wake. But I will wake too and I will also think of the consequences and wonder is it a dream:eek:

It's not a dream.

It's real.

F**k

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Depp

Kalyke wrote: »

A win for democracy? Maybe. A loss for HRC.... Meh. The biggest loser here is equality!

affirmative action the biggest loser? maybe...but equality, no.

20Cent

Depp wrote: »

all paid agents taking their orders directly from trump no doubt :rolleyes:

Taking their inspiration from him no need to pay them.

20Cent

lawlolawl wrote: »

So, a normal day in America then.

Also, this is all happening in Obamas America.

no it wasn't.

TheOven

jimmy blevins wrote: »

Dow Jones had its highest opening today, the markets seem to like the cut of the donalds jib.

I was told it went down because the markets know that Trump is going to do what's best for the people, not the market.

Must find them again.

20Cent

lawlolawl wrote: »

So, a normal day in America then.

Also, this is all happening in Obamas America.

no it wasn't.

mickmackey1

Billy86 wrote: »

A question for those who wanted Trump... Now that he has actually won, what do you want him to do over the next four years?

Improving relations with Russia would be the obvious one from many in here, but after that... what specific things do you expect from him? If we were to fast forward to 2020, what would you deem as the things you would want him to enact?

Building the wall?

Eliminating all corruption from Wall Street?

Banning all Muslims from entering the US or just from 'terror states' and if so specifically which nations?

Getting rid of Citizens United re elections?

Making abortion illegal?

Getting rid of Obamacare - and if so what would you replace it with?

Repealing Gay marriage?
Increased personal freedoms, and if so which - guns? Marijuana? Others?

Bringing jobs home and introducing penalties etc on companies who hire people overseas? Any specific industries or all?

Protectionism against imports in the event of returning manufacturing home, so that American companies don't have to compete with those from other nations who can offer the same (for example) smartphone at a fraction of the cost?

Increasing or decreasing corporate taxes? Changing the personal tax system and if so in which way(s) - lower taxes all around, lower taxes on the poor, higher taxes on the rich (and what would constitute 'rich') and so on? Keep in mind that what he can and cannot introduce introduce needs to be balanced out by income entering the country, e.g. That the book need to balance.

Increasing or decreasing welfare and subsidies, and if so who to? The unemployed (who it had to be remembered made up a larger chunk of his voter base in the rust belt, deprived rural areas, etc), or elsewhere?

Increase certain areas of spending, or decrease - and which? Military? NASA and sciences? Others?

Kicking out all illegal immigrants immediately? And if so, how to implement it? And if using a task force going door to door, school to school, business to business etc like (if I recall) he suggested in recent months, where to get the money to fund it from?

And of course, anything else that you want or expect from him over the next four years not mentioned in this post.

I'm not being smart here, I am genuinely interested as he has now win the election so it is worthwhile to see what those happy either the result expect to see over the next four years in order to make them feel vindicated come 2020. The republicans now control the house, the senate, the supreme court and the oval office so he does not have any democrat controlled areas of government to get in the way of his pushing for what he wants done, so I really am curious what people who were in favour of him want to see him do with it.

All of the above.

Iwasfrozen

Depp wrote: »

what about the white-male hating blm biggots? doubt they voted for him now!

Such people don't actually exist, outside 4chan that is.

20Cent

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Such people don't actually exist, outside 4chan that door is.

Yoda?

Billy86

mickmackey1 wrote: »

All of the above.

Some were 'a or b' type questions - unless you want him to both increase and decrease welfare and subsidies for the unemployed, and for elsewhere, as well as being for him simultaneously increasing and decreasing corporate tax, as well as personal tax on the for the wealthy?

AllGunsBlazing

Billy86 wrote: »

A question for those who wanted Trump... Now that he has actually won, what do you want him to do over the next four years

For a lot of them keeping Clinton Inc. out of a third term will be good enough.

Trump will spend the next fours pretending to be President while his VP runs the operation . Hopefully four years from now the dnc will have learned their lesson and run a candidate that won't make half the country want to vomit into a bucket. Christ, she couldn't even take the Latino vote with her even with the other guy threatening to build a wall to keep them out.

Depp

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Such people don't actually exist, outside 4chan that door is.

you sure about that now? :rolleyes:

Iwasfrozen

20Cent wrote: »

Yoda?

Much wisdom he has. Heed it, we did not.

Water John

If he leaves Pence run the detail as is being suggested, we'll know conservative values.

KingBrian2

Billy86 wrote: »

A question for those who wanted Trump... Now that he has actually won, what do you want him to do over the next four years?

Improving relations with Russia would be the obvious one from many in here, but after that... what specific things do you expect from him? If we were to fast forward to 2020, what would you deem as the things you would expect him to enact?

Building the wall?

Eliminating all corruption from Wall Street?

Banning Muslims from 'terror states' entering the US, and specifically which nations that should pertain to and not pertain to?

Getting rid of Citizens United re elections?

Making abortion illegal?

Getting rid of Obamacare - and if so what would you replace it with?

Repealing Gay marriage?
Increased personal freedoms, and if so which - guns? Marijuana? Others?

Bringing jobs home and introducing penalties etc on companies who hire people overseas? Any specific industries or all?

Protectionism against imports in the event of returning manufacturing home, so that American companies don't have to compete with those from other nations who can offer the same (for example) smartphone at a fraction of the cost?

Increasing or decreasing corporate taxes? Changing the personal tax system and if so in which way(s) - lower taxes all around, lower taxes on the poor, higher taxes on the rich (and what would constitute 'rich') and so on? Keep in mind that what he can and cannot introduce introduce needs to be balanced out by income entering the country, e.g. That the book need to balance.

Increasing or decreasing welfare and subsidies, and if so who to? The unemployed (who it had to be remembered made up a larger chunk of his voter base in the rust belt, deprived rural areas, etc), or elsewhere?

Increase certain areas of spending, or decrease - and which? Military? NASA and sciences? Others?

Kicking out all illegal immigrants immediately? And if so, how to implement it? And if using a task force going door to door, school to school, business to business etc like (if I recall) he suggested in recent months, where to get the money to fund it from?

And of course, anything else that you want or expect from him over the next four years not mentioned in this post.

I'm not being smart here, I am genuinely interested as he has now win the election so it is worthwhile to see what those happy either the result expect to see over the next four years in order to make them feel vindicated come 2020. The republicans now control the house, the senate, the supreme court and the oval office so he does not have any democrat controlled areas of government to get in the way of his pushing for what he wants done, so I really am curious what people who were in favour of him want to see him do with it.

Don't forget getting rid of the propaganda.

HellSquirrel

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Don't forget getting rid of the propaganda.

Oh yeah, add in "restrict the First Amendment and open up the libel laws so journalists can be sued for reporting on him".

Billy86

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

For a lot of them keeping Clinton Inc. out of a third term will be good enough.

Trump will spend the next fours pretending to be President while his VP runs the operation . Hopefully four years from now the dnc will have learned their lesson and run a candidate that won't make half the country want to vomit into a bucket. Christ, she couldn't even take the Latino vote with her even with the other guy threatening to build a wall to keep them out.

Hopefully four years from now the DNC have crumbled somewhat from all the finger pointing that is sure to ensue in the fallout, and the GOP do likewise from actually having to govern and not just say 'no' to everything (they're a deeply divided party these days along many lines, the main thing holding them together has been a common hatred of Obama/Clinton), helping the 3rd/4th/etc party contingent grow more and more. Not too likely, and we wouldn't see a legit 3rd party contender for another few cycles of that repeating itself, but hey... here's hoping, because their two party system really is brutal.

Billy86

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Don't forget getting rid of the propaganda.

Like I said, "And of course, anything else that you want or expect from him over the next four years not mentioned in this post."

So what would you want this Trump presidency to do over the next four years?

KingBrian2

Billy86 wrote: »

Like I said, "And of course, anything else that you want or expect from him over the next four years not mentioned in this post."

So what would you want this Trump presidency to do over the next four years?

Oh I can see him carry out trade and foreign policy changes in the future. This is a great victory for non-interventionism. Now that he is in charge we will see how the worlds nations can begin to improve relations with one another.

Ulysses Gaze

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Not everyone who voted for Trump is a bigot. But all the bigots voted for Trump.

Unfortunately with Trump's those bigots feel vindicated, they believe the majority share their views when in reality the majority don't.

We saw the same thing happen in Britain on a smaller scale after the Brexit vote and a similar increase in hate crime.

Except Left Wing bigots of course...

Iwasfrozen

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Oh I can see him carry out trade and foreign policy changes in the future. This is a great victory for non-interventionism. Now that he is in charge we will see how the worlds nations can begin to improve relations with one another.

George Bush was a victory for non interventionists. America will always be dragged into world conflicts to protect its interests.

FA Hayek

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Hard to disagree with anything there. However, at the end of the day perhaps those who espoused economic liberalism have no-one else to blame rather then themselves.

Sure, in the grand scheme of things globalisation is a good thing. China is proof of that with the rise of a 400 million strong middle class. However, the losers seem to be those in the likes of Ohio and Yorkshire and more importantly they vote.

Next up will be France, can it be a hat trick of victories for the anti-free trade movement?

Ulysses Gaze

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

George Bush was a victory for non interventionists. America will always be dragged into world conflicts to protect its interests.

Have you read the PNAC report written by the group of Republicans that would be the cornerstone of the Bush Admin?

It's called Rebuilding America's Defences.

They were calling for Pre-Emptive strikes in that paper.

Hardly non-interventionists.

jackofalltrades

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I heard it phrased very well earlier on today.

Not everyone who voted for Trump is a bigot. But all the bigots voted for Trump.

It the same crap slogan that was repeated in the Brexit thread.
"Not everyone who voted for Brexit was a bigot. But all the bigots voted for Brexit."
It's a step above "Have you told your parents your gay yet?".

Billy86 wrote: »

Not too likely, and we wouldn't see a legit 3rd party contender for another few cycles of that repeating itself, but hey... here's hoping, because their two party system really is brutal.

They'd really benefit from changing their electoral system to one like ours.
They seem to be in a constant state of swapping between a President that one half of the country can't stand.
It would be great if Americans could vote for a 3rd/4th candidate without it being a wasted vote.
That said though the 3rd/4th party contenders were a bit of a shambles this time.

Manic Moran

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Give me one strong, democratic argument against a popular vote.

The fact that you're asking the question is a reflection of a lack of understanding of the nature of the US. Stop thinking of it as a single country like Ireland and start thinking of it as a federation of independent, sovereign states with their own Constitutions, governments, legal systems, etc, like the EU. You'll see that the European Parliament works on the same basis, smaller countries have more 'weight' per voter than the larger ones. The President is the President of the States, not the President of the Collective People of the USA. When I went to the polls on Tuesday, I was not voting for a President. I was voting to tell my State who they wanted to lead the united body of States. In this, my vote in urban Alameda County counted just as much (or as little) as suburban Amador County. It is fair and equal. Just as when you vote for an MEP, your vote counts the same as anyone else's at the national level, but things become a bit disproportionate at the EU level.

The Electoral College is a compromise. Perhaps an imperfect one, but just like the EU parliament, is an attempt to reconcile and balance the fact that the bodies which make up the larger organisation are of equal value and dignity, with the fairness that comes from acknowledging that some States have far more population than others. We get the exact same number EC electoral votes per state as we have Representatives in the House of Congress. If you can come up with a better way of reconciling this, I'm all ears. Personally, I think the solution lies not with the electoral college itself, but with the manner in which the candidates are chosen. For example, I would like to see open primaries, and the transferrable vote implemented. I strongly doubt it will happen, as it would mean the big parties would be torpedoing themselves.

In the meantime, my FB feed is finally showing articles from sites like Huffington Post (like http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-democratic-party-deserves-to-die_us_58236ad5e4b0aac62488cde5 ) and Cracked ( http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/ ) which, had anyone been paying attention to what they were saying a few months ago, may possibly have resulted in a different electoral result. The BBC news website four months ago put the nail on the head when they actually visited Trump-prone areas, and it wasn't about racism or mysogeny ( http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36752237 ) . Even though these articles in no way defend Trump or his positions, they explain clearly why the Democrats lost. Shame nobody in the American media or DNC reads the BBC.

A Battered Mars Bar

I have a massive erection for Trump right now. The world is a much brighter place since Nov. 8th. Since Bush the world descended into chaos, ISIS grew, the ECB clenched it's fist around Ireland. Everything seems better now. Anything is possible. Greatness is inside you and inside me waiting to burst out like a skittles rainbow.

Laois_Man

People worrying over the US cutting corporation tax to 15℅ need to calm the ferk down. Obama promised similar 8 years ago (when Democrats controlled all facets of US government, the white house, the senate and the house). He wasn't able to do it and Trump won't either.

The US government are projected to make half a TRILKION dollars in Corporation tax in 2017. Cutting the rate from 35% to between 15% and 20℅ firstly wipes out a quarter of a trillion in income instantly. Secondly, while they would have more companies paying the lower rate to make up some of the shortfall, it would take years for this trickle down effect to be seen. For a man who has been only elected for 4 years, thats no good when he has to pay for new roads, bridges, hospitals, prisons, double the size of the US military, upgrade all their equipment etc etc all while not only eliminating borrowing, but actually cutting the national debt. It's fantasy government game.

Thirdly, federal corporation tax is only part of US corporation tax. There's also variable state level corporate tax. When you add it all together, even the fed rates cut in half (which won't happen), the us taxation level for corporations is still significantly higher than ours.

GreenFolder2

lawlolawl wrote: »

"Gee, i wonder why people didn't vote for Hillary"

You have to remember that the US is still largely stuck in a kind of evangelical christian time warp outside of the big urban centres and away from the coasts. I find a lot of US politicians still pander to it, in much the same way as 1960s/70s Irish centrists used to piously demonstrate how close to the church they were.

Even in Clinton's concession speech, she made references to scripture and you could tell it was all just a PR box ticking exercise.

I still don't see how it would justify voting Trump, but if you were a genuine centre left voter, I could see exactly how Clinton would be off putting. You can see how she didn't enthuse a lot of voters who would have gone for Bernie.

In an Irish context, she's more like a 1980s Fianna Failer,but so are most of the mainstream US politicians on the democratic side of the house. The republicans are closer to the DUP.

Ireland's actually moved on a huge amount over the last 20 years, where as the US political system really hasn't. It has areas of enlightenment but it's mostly a very different, far more religiously conservative culture than we have here these days.

Increasingly, I just find a lot of political culture in the US very alien and really regressive. We're definitely heading down two different tracks and perhaps had more in common 30+ years ago.

With Clinton though I just felt like it was a case of "I passionately believe in whatever it is you believe in!"

Water John

I think Laois Man, the truth of what you write is dawning on him already.

Richard Osman predicted last night that he won't last four years. He'll be pissed off after 2.

Wrong on Clinton. she is quite religous, Methodist, according to her biographer.

namloc1980

Manic Moran wrote: »

When I went to the polls on Tuesday, I was not voting for a President.

Did your ballot have Clinton, Trump etc on it or the local Dem/Rep elector? I don't know how you can say you weren't voting for the President.

Depp

namloc1980 wrote: »

Did your ballot have Clinton, Trump etc on it or the local Dem/Rep elector? I don't know how you can say you weren't voting for the President.

think i saw something about ballots having the party rather than the candidate