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Oppositional Defiant Disorder

icebergiceberg

Anybody teach kids with ODD? What challenges have you faced and more particularly, how have you met those challenges?

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evolving_doors

icebergiceberg wrote: »

Anybody teach kids with ODD? What challenges have you faced and more particularly, how have you met those challenges?

Positive praise seems to work if you can fake that smile, some teachers are better at it than I. Just from witnessing another teacher being successful he really engaged with the student and tried to see what was going on in their heads. Give them a daily update on how they got on in the class they just had.
I've really been wowed by the some other teachers 'turned around' students but it takes a lot of work and positivity. Maybe 'turned around' isn't the best word to use.

byhookorbycrook

The SESS are worth talking to, they also give school workshops, might be a useful way to do the dreaded CP hours.Either way, have a look at the pdfs below.
http://www.sess.ie/resources/behaviour-management

man_no_plan

icebergiceberg wrote: »

Anybody teach kids with ODD? What challenges have you faced and more particularly, how have you met those challenges?

Are you doing a masters or something?

icebergiceberg

man_no_plan wrote: »

Are you doing a masters or something?

I often think why I became a teacher at all when faced with <mod Snip expletive> who are diagnosed with this condition called ODD.
I often wonder how their lives will be later on. Does this condition continue or dissolve as they mature. Or is it a phase they go through that kicks in at adolescence.
If you asked me what caused this condition I would immediately reflect on those kids that I know and ask questions about their family life. They would all share the same characteristics: chaotic family life, usually a large one. Poor parenting. Absent parenting and so on and so on. There are also genetic causes, I understand. I don't know anything about that.
It's a difficult number when you try and reach them one to one. Invest a lot of time and energy with them. Then the little fucerk goes off on one. I have no solutions but just when you think you are making progress... .
Am I doing a masters? That would be a luxury. I just have enough energy in the evening to go on a walk.

evolving_doors

Don't take it personally, sure, I even get angry at student's behaviour and 'blame' them but often I've went and found a back story that they are fairly up against it at home aswell... and other teacher's probably have them in a box too.
From talking to a more experienced teacher (who has done follow ups on students after secondary) they do generally 'change' in a new environment. He reckoned that hormones had a lot to do with it but of course we're not doctors.
Could it be mixed up with ADHD?

I remember a wise person once said of these students.. "a few thousand years ago this impulsive student might have been an excellent hunter or tribal leader living on their nerves and not afraid to face off any challenge to the tribe... now they have to sit in a desk for 7 hrs a day for 6 years".

Try and suss out other teachers that have that student, look for one that isn't as negative towards them. Maybe they pick and choose which teachers to misbehave with, find out why they are picking you.

Also try and get to know them a little bit (hobbies, pets, interests, music). Find out by integrating a question into a topic you are covering (if it's maths use a 'class survey' for statistics, if it's geography ask about the furthest distance they have travelled, or what their environment is like where they live etc. Then at some stage try and relay this info back to them to show you remember them for something other than misbehaviour.

r93kaey5p2izun

I currently teach 11 students with ODD and have taught scores over the past 10 years. To boil it all down to a simple piece of advice, I find the only officially recommended strategy that works is tactically ignoring secondary behaviours. That's a very general strategy but ultimately it's the only thing that consistently helps imo. Helps - not necessarily solves all the issues!

Tbh, I have seen very little success with students with ODD outside one-to-one teaching and intensive NBSS intervention. I have found that what works for one experienced, expertly trained colleague with a particular student often doesn't work for another experienced, expertly trained colleague with the same student and vice versa. Nothing really works consistently and from what I see, individual personalities and relationships seem to have a huge effect and can't be extrapolated to other situations and personalities.

Many (most even?) of my students with ODD have ended up involved in crime

icebergiceberg

Kiana Puny Shoelace wrote: »

I currently teach 11 students with ODD and have taught scores over the past 10 years. To boil it all down to a simple piece of advice, I find the only officially recommended strategy that works is tactically ignoring secondary behaviours. That's a very general strategy but ultimately it's the only thing that consistently helps imo. Helps - not necessarily solves all the issues!

Tbh, I have seen very little success with students with ODD outside one-to-one teaching and intensive NBSS intervention. I have found that what works for one experienced, expertly trained colleague with a particular student often doesn't work for another experienced, expertly trained colleague with the same student and vice versa. Nothing really works consistently and from what I see, individual personalities and relationships seem to have a huge effect and can't be extrapolated to other situations and personalities.

Many (most even?) of my students with ODD have ended up involved in crime

Mind you had a very good day today strangely. Little chats along the way. Like looking after a baby. They like one of the things I believe they crave but don't get at home-attention. I do agree that progress can be related to personality mixes. With a view to keeping kids in the system, we turn a blind eye to lots. They are given every chance. Job would have pulled his hair out.
edited at request of poster - Mod .

byhookorbycrook

I'm concerned about the language you use in relation to these children. Yes they can and usually are quite difficult, but treating them with respect goes a long way. I'd suggest you read some of Bill Roger's books.

seavill

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I'm concerned about the language you use in relation to these children. Yes they can and usually are quite difficult, but treating them with respect goes a long way. I'd suggest you read some of Bill Roger's books.

I was just about to say the same thing. It puts us all in a bad light, parents and students come here reading threads and I think it is very inappropriate, and surprised it has not been edited.

In relation to the question, staying 100% calm in all situations is the first thing, as difficult as it may seem it goes against what they are trying to achieve. They are unlikely to be used to experiencing calm, they are probably used to getting a reaction so often don't know how to react to calmness.

They may need an opt out initially, that teacher that they get along with, in the most extreme cases they could go to that teacher to get away from the situation. Obvioulsy this needs to be organised properly and only used as a last resort.

A rapport with an adult is key also. There will be one person they get along with this person needs to be involved in a plan for the child.

As someone mentioned preempting trouble is the best bet. You will have to have a different set of standards for someone with ODD but at the same time they cannnot be left away with murder, they need to have the same set of rules as everyone else, but tactical ignoring and presence near them can avert a lot of problems.

Consistency is probably the biggest thing. They will constantly be trying to push the limits but, believe it or not, they will get along with teachers where they know where the line is. If it is crossed then there is consequences. A lot of these children lack any boundaries at home, so they actually crave some structure in their lives. They need teachers to be firm but fair. Once the line is crossed they are in trouble, explosion or not, and even after an explosion, the standard consequences need to apply,

but, the most important part is, every day is a new day. As hard as it may be every day they come into the room, you need to greet them with a smile and an hello and pretend that they have never stepped out of line before. And begin the whole process all over again

icebergiceberg

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I'm concerned about the language you use in relation to these children. Yes they can and usually are quite difficult, but treating them with respect goes a long way. I'd suggest you read some of Bill Roger's books.

Apologies for use of language and any offence taken. That's not the intention.Probably getting things off ones chest. It's best to keep language like that private.

I think I went to a seminar of Bill Rogers (unless I am confusing him with someone else). He has written numerous books but I can't remember specifically what his talk was about. But it is funny what you do remember. He did go on and on and didn't like or appreciate any interjections or challenges from the audience in the form of questions about what he was talking about. A very off putting man I found and I couldn't take to him at all. He used cartoon drawings to make points and they were intriguing for a while (the cartoons that is). I got a copy of one of his books for free although am sure his fee more than covered it.

Again apologies.

icebergiceberg

seavill wrote: »

I was just about to say the same thing. It puts us all in a bad light, parents and students come here reading threads and I think it is very inappropriate, and surprised it has not been edited.

In relation to the question, staying 100% calm in all situations is the first thing, as difficult as it may seem it goes against what they are trying to achieve. They are unlikely to be used to experiencing calm, they are probably used to getting a reaction so often don't know how to react to calmness.

They may need an opt out initially, that teacher that they get along with, in the most extreme cases they could go to that teacher to get away from the situation. Obvioulsy this needs to be organised properly and only used as a last resort.

A rapport with an adult is key also. There will be one person they get along with this person needs to be involved in a plan for the child.

As someone mentioned preempting trouble is the best bet. You will have to have a different set of standards for someone with ODD but at the same time they cannnot be left away with murder, they need to have the same set of rules as everyone else, but tactical ignoring and presence near them can avert a lot of problems.

Consistency is probably the biggest thing. They will constantly be trying to push the limits but, believe it or not, they will get along with teachers where they know where the line is. If it is crossed then there is consequences. A lot of these children lack any boundaries at home, so they actually crave some structure in their lives. They need teachers to be firm but fair. Once the line is crossed they are in trouble, explosion or not, and even after an explosion, the standard consequences need to apply,

but, the most important part is, every day is a new day. As hard as it may be every day they come into the room, you need to greet them with a smile and an hello and pretend that they have never stepped out of line before. And begin the whole process all over again

Point taken in your first paragraph.

I agee with everything you have said. In particular the last point. After many lows and difficulties and battles I have always felt that the next day everything is, as it were, all forgotten by them. It's done and dusted and tomorrow is a fresh slate. You can get energy and hope from that. I am not so sure about the smile on ones face however.
Changes to the timetable seems to set them off too. They can't handle that and we try to eliminate that.
In all probability they come from troubled families. As much as I want to, I never let them know how angry they can make you. (I'm not waving, I'm drowning). I also find when confronting aggression a good strategy is to ask questions in order for them to stop for a second and try and rationalise what they are doing. It puts them on the back foot and gives you some breathing space. Space to control things. Most probably also they have few if any positive adult role models around them to put them on the right track. At the end of the day, perhaps it's all too late at 15,16 to intervene. I don't know. The damage is done and there really isn't much we can to change their lives in a significant way.

Corkgirl18

I've a class of 11 students and 5 have been diagnosed with ODD.. Some craic :pac:

I'd just echo others here when they talk about praising the student, building up a good rapport with them, finding out about their interests and sticking to a routine.
A lot of the time, its parents of some of these kids rather than the kids themselves that anger me, especially when you try to confront them about their childs' behaviour.

I've found that SNA's are great to talk to about some of these kids. If there are SNA's in the classrooms they see the kids more than any teacher. As a result, you can ask them if another teacher does something that the child responds particularly well to etc.