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ASTI OctNov Action Post 1 for usual plea for restraint Especially New Posters

deiseindublin

I'm not ASTI (more's the pity) so haven't been talking to anybody in ASTI staffrooms.

What's the general feeling on the ground? What way will the vote go?

Just going to tweek this thread a bit as things have moved on since the ballot result.

As usual, keep it civil.

Address the points made (rather than the poster).

Avoid such terms as
"What planet are you on"
"Are you for real"

Any New posters to the forum should be reminded to read the charter.
'Three months holidays' 'only working 22hrs' 'performance related pay' are old, typically uninformed and very very tired. It Invariably ends up in derailing a thread and annoying folk too... but feel free to start a new thread. This type of stuff will be deleted.
As usual do not respond if you are a regular poster. Just report it as off topic and leave the rest to us (when we get around to it). Thanks.

MOD

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paddybarry

Peppa Pig wrote: »

From reading the thread I get this, but am I misinformed that the strike was called over the new teachers and nothing else, or all four issues?

Strike days are about new teachers/LPTs.

evolving_doors

man_no_plan wrote: »

If this drags on it will have to go to the labour court. Will they be likely to better the agreement they hammered out with the other unions?

Until this payroll/lockout craic started the ASTI were half okay. If you gain a bit well and good if you don't there's still the bit to be got from the other agreement. The problem now is the personal cost to teachers might be a bit high.

Would the ASTI lift the directive on principals for a week to let them sort external supervisors? Might let the schools open and take the pressure off, there will hardly be enough people interested in doing the supervision which might close the schools anyway. At least it would leave teachers in the clear. Or would that be seen as a sign of weakness?

If the DES back down on the 33hours its game over for LRA.

I asked earlier if the principals / bom (and NPC) we're now taking directives from JMB . I speculate that this is the case as I heard some mutterings of principals being advised by the JMB to leave the ASTI.. and allegedly some have. This is all hearsay but I'd like to hear the JMB say it's not true!if that's possible.

The time for external supervisors is well gone (maybe a few schools made their own arrangements in time !). but BOM and NPC said they wouldn't facilitate it (maybe rightly so!)... so that's that I think.

Dept knew ages ago that it was coming down the line after the vote though!
They probably came out looking better by leaving it too late and blaming teachers. Hence why Ed Byrne's out if the blue last ditch effort to offer time for dept. to sort it. At least ASTI offered! They can say...

km79

Peppa Pig wrote: »

From reading the thread I get this, but am I misinformed that the strike was called over the new teachers and nothing else, or all four issues?

Monday is not a strike
teachers will be at work
whether they will be allowed work is up to individual schools.....

evolving_doors

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Exactly I'm prepared to tough it out. That supervision money ends up being worth 350 euro but them not paying us for it was a step too far and I'm not for backing down.

If this are really about money (gready teachers etc!) I'd be back at work and in LR like a shot. If next week is closed I'll have lost multiples of S&S...

judeboy101

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I asked earlier if the principals / bom (and NPC) we're now taking directives from JMB . I speculate that this is the case as I heard some mutterings of principals being advised by the JMB to leave the ASTI.. and allegedly some have. This is all hearsay but I'd like to hear the JMB say it's not true!if that's possible.

The time for external supervisors is well gone (maybe a few schools made their own arrangements in time !). but BOM and NPC said they wouldn't facilitate it (maybe rightly so!)... so that's that I think.

Dept knew ages ago that it was coming down the line after the vote though!
They probably came out looking better by leaving it too late and blaming teachers. Hence why Ed Byrne's out if the blue last ditch effort to offer time for dept. to sort it. At least ASTI offered! They can say...

Colleague of mine got promoted to big chair last year in another school. Was good union man when heard at branch meeting he had left I rang him up (for a chat) . When I mentioned it he til me that jmb left him in no doubt that it would be more beneficial for him and his new school to be non union. Again its only anecdotal but seems to be a trend.

man_no_plan

judeboy101 wrote: »

Colleague of mine got promoted to big chair last year in another school. Was good union man when heard at branch meeting he had left I rang him up (for a chat) . When I mentioned it he til me that jmb left him in no doubt that it would be more beneficial for him and his new school to be non union. Again its only anecdotal but seems to be a trend.

Well they're right in a way. If the whole school was jone union he could saddle everyone at will if thats the style he likes. If he was non union he could keep the school open without breaking a directive.

It would be bad in general though.

ccazza

Great to see Joanne Irwin continue to support the Landsdowne Road agreement on the news. The TUI don't seem to be listening to their members. I can't understand why when Richard Bruton won't commit to one pay scale even in the future that the TUI doesn't use the mandate they have to go on strike with ASTI colleagues.

man_no_plan

ccazza wrote: »

Great to see Joanne Irwin continue to support the Landsdowne Road agreement on the news. Definitely doesn't seem to be listening to their members. I can't understand why when Richard Bruton won't commit to one pay scale even in the future that the TUI doesn't use the mandate they have to go on strike with ASTI colleagues.

When was she on?

political analyst

man_no_plan wrote: »

When was she on?

This evening.

judeboy101

ccazza wrote: »

Great to see Joanne Irwin continue to support the Landsdowne Road agreement on the news. The TUI don't seem to be listening to their members. I can't understand why when Richard Bruton won't commit to one pay scale even in the future that the TUI doesn't use the mandate they have to go on strike with ASTI colleagues.

You know when a bully is beating someone up and others are watching on doing nothing because if they do they'll be next. That's the tui right now.

acequion

man_no_plan wrote: »

Well they're right in a way. If the whole school was jone union he could saddle everyone at will if thats the style he likes. If he was non union he could keep the school open without breaking a directive.

It would be bad in general though.

There is nothing good about that story.Its actually quite sinister.

worseforwear

judeboy101 wrote: »

Colleague of mine got promoted to big chair last year in another school. Was good union man when heard at branch meeting he had left I rang him up (for a chat) . When I mentioned it he til me that jmb left him in no doubt that it would be more beneficial for him and his new school to be non union. Again its only anecdotal but seems to be a trend.

I don't believe a word of it.
The JMB are not a union and don't issue directives. They are merely an advisory body.

acequion

judeboy101 wrote: »

You know when a bully is beating someone up and others are watching on doing nothing because if they do they'll be next. That's the tui right now.

That just typififies the attitude of fear among workers.Crazy! What really is the point,therefore,in the hours we sp end building yoing people's confidence with public speaking skills,prowess on the sports fields,stages etc only to end up in serfdom like their teachers!

MrJones1973

There is a lot of over reaction here..if we actually get deducted then the likelihood is we will get that back. That's what happened last time. If we don't stay out a while we won't get much .I just wish we knew where talks are going

feardeas

Mrwhite1970 wrote:

There is a lot of over reaction here..if we actually get deducted then the likelihood is we will get that back. That's what happened last time. If we don't stay out a while we won't get much .I just wish we knew where talks are going

When we're deductions for industrial action returned? It didn't happen for the strike days over Junior Cycle or the national day of action in 09.

judeboy101

feardeas wrote: »

When we're deductions for industrial action returned? It didn't happen for the strike days over Junior Cycle or the national day of action in 09.

When we pulled out of s&s b4 in the early 00's the dept stopped pay but reinstated plus missing days if I remember correctly

Moody_mona

I don't think Mr white is referring to strike day pat being returned, but Monday and all other days where schools are closed are not strikes, teachers are willing and able to work but some are being denied entry or students.

charolais0153

So wipp schools be open on the 7th or will they come to some agreement tonight

km79

charolais0153 wrote: »

So wipp schools be open on the 7th or will they come to some agreement tonight

We will know tonight

Villain

One local community school is only opening for exam years as they have more ASTI than TUI, another is open as normal with the split about 60/40 majority TUI.

This is very messy, ASTI would be better off on a clear all out strike if they really want to play hard ball.

feardeas

judeboy101 wrote: »

When we pulled out of s&s b4 in the early 00's the dept stopped pay but reinstated plus missing days if I remember correctly

Ah right, i was a fresher in college then and was't paying attention to what was going on. Oh to have the same luxury now.

judeboy101

Villain wrote: »

One local community school is only opening for exam years as they have more ASTI than TUI, another is open as normal with the split about 60/40 majority TUI.

This is very messy, ASTI would be better off on a clear all out strike if they really want to play hard ball.

If it goes past 2weeks I could see an all out but at moment keeping them separate legally means when it sorted we can get paid for s&s days as a sweetener in negotiations. You'll never get money back for strike days no matter what the deal.

km79

If we don't get word soon then I expect a "deal" later

man_no_plan

km79 wrote: »

If we don't get word soon then I expect a "deal" later

A deal indeed. If the JC is wrapped up in it the ASTI may be better off entering the existing LRA and take the money, do s/s and continue to oppose the JC. I think the waters are very muddy now and a nice neat parcel could undo a lot of other work.

stanley1980

judeboy101 wrote: »

You know when a bully is beating someone up and others are watching on doing nothing because if they do they'll be next. That's the tui right now.

It was also like the ASTI when they signed up to shafting younger teachers in the first place! Young teachers in my school are joining TUI in their droves, anecdotally I hear it's the same in other schools-what does that suggest?. Listening to faux-concern from ASTI members re: the plight of young teachers is even more galling than anything from the government.

man_no_plan

stanley1980 wrote: »

It was also like the ASTI when they signed up to shafting younger teachers in the first place! Young teachers in my school are joining TUI in their droves, anecdotally I hear it's the same in other schools-what does that suggest?. Listening to faux-concern from ASTI members re: the plight of young teachers is even more galling than anything from the government.

To be fair, nobody signed up to that. Im not an ASTI fanboy by any stretch of the imagination but thats just not factual. The unequal payscales exist across the Public Sector since 2011.

You are correct that TUI were on this earlier but achieved very little until this summer. i hope that the rift between TUI &ASTI can be healed in advance of whatever is the next instalment of this saga of FEMPI v collective agreement. But there will be hard choices there too, which comes first restoration or equalisation?

MrJones1973

stanley1980 wrote: »

It was also like the ASTI when they signed up to shafting younger teachers in the first place! Young teachers in my school are joining TUI in their droves, anecdotally I hear it's the same in other schools-what does that suggest?. Listening to faux-concern from ASTI members re: the plight of young teachers is even more galling than anything from the government.

I think you are dealing in bull. Apologies but you are. There is no evidence of this bar your word. Kieran Christie stated on national TV. We are going on 7 days of strike. What exactly has TUI done? Did a TUI member lose a day of pay yet???
Btw-if you are in a voluntary Secondary school then it doesnt matter what union you are in or none-your CID is still after 4 years.
You might have teachers in dual schools opting for TUI but its nearly impossible to say whether they might have done that anyway. This will be resolved one way or another by DEC-if spineless young teachers decide to join the TUI-it aint going to make a shred of difference to their status and the TUI are welcome to them.

judeboy101

stanley1980 wrote: »

It was also like the ASTI when they signed up to shafting younger teachers in the first place! Young teachers in my school are joining TUI in their droves, anecdotally I hear it's the same in other schools-what does that suggest?. Listening to faux-concern from ASTI members re: the plight of young teachers is even more galling than anything from the government.

There are DROVES of young teachers in your school!! You do realise that alot of teachers post '11 would not consider themselves 'young' either then or now. That's a little bit ageist tbh and next you'll be suggesting some sort of Logans run style removal of 'older teachers'.

TheDriver

Can I add a thought on the whole BOM part and the JMB. Wearing my Principal's hat, its an awful minefield and I find the management bodies are (trying to) advising on the best way to manage a school. BOMs can have members who aren't well informed or just not interested and days like tomorrow are a difficult situation to deal with. On one hand, we are union members who want our union to win. On the other hand, we are responsible if we can't look after our kids and the directive means we can't ask people to make sure everyone stays safe at lunch tomorrow. Now thats not to say the JMB may not be doing the wisest thing but the amount of emails and correspondence from ACSS, ETBi and JMB over the last 3 weeks and surveys from the DESk is also frustrating and sickening.
Its not an ideal situation and of course a BOM should be looking after their staff and students but with such uncertainty, there are many modes of responsibility to be looked at when or if it came to opening the gates tomorrow.
I don't know if the course of action by many BOMs is the best, or if some were thinking they are helping by closing (pseudo supporting the cause etc) but its not as simple as what some posters here are stating.

MrJones1973

I love Logans Run! I got to be honest not looking forward to sitting around staff room talking **** . I must find a place I can do some work:eek:

A lot of the staff are Outer party material at best:p