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Louise O Neill on rape culture.

Ralf and Florian

She presented a documentary on rape culture during the week on RTE which focused on the issue of sexual assault against females. It's interesting to note her response to a (male) follower would tweeted that it would be hilarious to see a remake of Deliverance featuring "pissed up dickheads on a drunken stag". For anyone who's not seen the movie Deliverance its about three city dwellers who go for a weekend fishing to what could be described as a backwoods community. Central to the storyline is when they are held captive and one of them raped by a bunch of rednecks.

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/794195404145442816

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Penny Tration

She just comes across as someone pretending to be offended by everything for the sake of getting attention.

As for me, a woman who has been through rape/assault, I see no rape culture in Ireland.

I see sexism, and scummy comments, and drunk men who need to be given a shove before they accept "no" as an answer. But I also see the same in women.

And that's not rape culture. That's a small % of fcuking morons that all societies have to deal with because there are some assholes everywhere.

The majority of people are good. Some are assholes. Assholes do not equal rape culture.

Widdershins

learn_more wrote: »

I'm going out on the rape tonight.

Sorry I mean to say 'I'm going out on the pull', not the rape , the pull.

Ah now, don't be talking about exerting force to draw someone towards yourself

Sonics2k

zeroliner wrote: »

She writes good books, but has bought into her "FAME" and is over estimating her influence and power as of late

She also has the worst dress sense ever, and needs someone with a bit of cop to do her makeup for TV.

Who gives a flying crap about what she wears?

I don't agree with her opinions on a lot of stuff, but saying absolute dribbling nonsense like this does not help at all.

Connacht2KXX

midnight city wrote: »

We should refer to Louise and those like her as feminist extremists or justs extremists.

Extremists are people whose beliefs and actions stray away from the basic tenants of a particular ideology. O'Neil regurgitates the common feminist/sjw ideas and phrases - ie rape culture, white privilege, heternormative. There's not a chance in hell she authentically came up with this shít herself.

Wibbs

lawlolawl wrote: »

Congrats, you just raped her with those statements by noticing something about her femininity. You should be ashamed :mad:

Eh no L, what she wears or doesn't wear, or what she looks like shouldn't and doesn't mean jack shít. For me this sorta thing comes down to; does her premise and presentation of premise pass muster, end of, full stop, period for our 'Merican viewers. And for me, it doesn't.

midnight city

Connacht2KXX wrote: »

I've bashed Louise O'Neill on boards many times so maybe 1 more time won't hurt.

The left love making up new terms that use inflammatory language that doesn't match the term, so as to stifle any criticism and paint themselves as the victim. "Rape culture", "islamophobia", "white privilege", "fatphobia" etc etc all fall under this banner..

We should refer to Louise and those like her as feminist extremists or justs extremists.

zeroliner

lawlolawl wrote: »

Congrats, you just raped her with those statements by noticing something about her femininity. You should be ashamed :mad:

She needs lip filler too :P

lawlolawl

zeroliner wrote: »

She also has the worst dress sense ever, and needs someone with a bit of cop to do her makeup for TV.

Congrats, you just raped her with those statements by noticing something about her femininity. You should be ashamed :mad:

zeroliner

She writes good books, but has bought into her "FAME" and is over estimating her influence and power as of late

She also has the worst dress sense ever, and needs someone with a bit of cop to do her makeup for TV.

learn_more

I'm going out on the rape tonight.

Sorry I mean to say 'I'm going out on the pull', not the rape , the pull.

Connacht2KXX

I've bashed Louise O'Neill on boards many times so maybe 1 more time won't hurt.

The left love making up new terms that use inflammatory language that doesn't match the term, so as to stifle any criticism and paint themselves as the victim. "Rape culture", "islamophobia", "white privilege", "fatphobia" etc etc all fall under this banner.

Definition of rape - "A criminal offense defined in most states as forcible sexual relations with a person against that person's will".
Definition of culture - "the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society".
Therefore, the definition of rape culture should be - "where rape is an integral part of the ideas, customs and social behaviour of a particular people or society".
Of course, this is not the definition of rape culture according to O'Neill and other western feminists/sjws.

Their definition of rape culture - "rape culture is a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality...Behaviours commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, refusing to acknowledge the harm caused by some forms of sexual violence, or some combination of these" (taken from Wikipedia).
Even this soft definition cannot be completely applicable to the western world. For example, I am considered a victim blamer if I say that a woman who gets wasted and walks home from a club at 4am and gets raped in an alley increases their chances of getting raped, yet is just as innocent as a man who gets raped at knife point on his way home from work. Furthermore, "some forms of sexual violence" include rape jokes, sex jokes and even interrupting women in a conversation. Many people openly say that there is widespread rape in the world, such as in the Middle East, the Congo and even in some parts of western Europe, such as Cologne on NYE, (cue the claims of racism, islamophobia, bigotry etc) yet claim that the figure that 1 in 4 women will get raped on campus is blown way out of proportion. This is considered "denial of widespread rape". The people who trivialise rape tend to be the feminists who make up these terms and make the definition of rape so broad that even arguing with a woman can be considered rape. They also never give a shít if men get raped, even though men get raped more than women. I have never seen a feminist protest outside of a prison, demanding the guards to help protect the victims of rape. I never saw feminists protesting when a man in the 80s got life in prison for rape, his wife divorced him, after 25 years he got out after being proven innocent due to DNA testing, got only $4m dollars in compo from the government (should have got at least $40m) and his wife was able to sue him for a few hundred grand in alimony payments. And good ol Louise can claim that our rape culture is so pervasive in Irish society because we teach women not to get raped, not men not to rape. I could write another 5 pages on why this is so unethical and plain stupid but I won't bother.

Sonics2k

bluewolf wrote: »

Doesn't sound like anyone did deck them though does it
Instead we have guys lining up to say "well *i* wouldn't do it so it doesn't count"

To be fair, I personally have punched a guy who was trying to subtly grope a then girlfriend of mine.

Bouncers saw me hit him and I got thrown around by the bouncers and kicked out. Very hard to not come across as the aggressor in that circumstance.

Tigger

bluewolf wrote: »

Doesn't sound like anyone did deck them though does it
Instead we have guys lining up to say "well *i* wouldn't do it so it doesn't count"

Ok but all I can do is be me
I don't see rape culture and if I did I'd be angry
I'm sure there are wierdios out there but they are not the norm

MRnotlob606

She sounds like she has based all her opinions from reposts on Tumblr.

MRnotlob606

There's a toolbox out there missing a spanner.

Olishi4

There's a man in my circle who has made a few derogatory comments towards me. Nothing crazy but definitely crossing the line. I was out with him and his wife and we were in a club. She couldn't hear me speaking through the music and she gave me a little slap across the face, not too hard mind but hard enough to say it was out of order. The minute, she did it, she took a step back and said "oh my god why did I just do that to you?"! Anyway I can tell from subtle things that she says and body language that she does not like me. Was she victim blaming me for her husband's comments, that may be considered "rape culture"? This is one of the reasons why defining certain interactions as "rape culture" does not work. They are both a bit crazy so I'll keep my distance and that's it.

Imo the problem with "rape culture" is that it is basically saying that it is only men and where a lot of men are not guilty of this behaviour. I have a friend who was molested by a childhood friend's mother when she was 9 and one of the things that she said to me was, that the thing that has most hurt her, was that when she did talk about it, that it was played down because it was a woman and the nature of the assault was played down. She has always felt that she wasn't heard. Another reason why "rape culture" should not be a thing. This girl was subject to serious sexual assault where "rape" is not considered a possibility.

I could give a lot of antidotes of friends who have confided in me of situations where they have been sexually or physically abused where women were either the culprits or active accessories but I feel, it's not my place to share their complete stories here publicly.

There is an issue where some people do not understand or do not care about another persons boundaries and it is played down in general. I was groped myself, completely randomly, walking through town by a man. I was in complete shock and it just so happened that the first person I saw was a lad from college. I told him what happened and he thought it was funny and made a joke of it.

I think rather than defining something as "rape culture", it is more important to instill personal boundaries in people and to give people an understanding of what is assault, sexual or just aggressive physical assault. If people or children are not getting this at home, then society need a new approach but I don't think "rape culture" is the answer to that.

I personally have had very healthy boundaries instilled in me from my family and this has allowed me to understand that sometimes we have to deal with ****ty people and I know if I need to and someone crosses the line that I am able to report them although I am aware that in some circumstances that this doesn't always work or isnt always a realistic option with any worth. I think that somewhere, maybe through school, that the best approach is to ensure that people are made more aware of others and their own personal boundaries.

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

scarleh on ya posting in this thread while Ireland bet the All Blacks

cantdecide

As an aside, Louise O'Neill getting air time is proof (if we needed it, which we don't) that patriarchy is a myth.

AnGaelach

noaddedsugar wrote: »

Women tend to get low level harassment a lot though, maybe men do too I don't know. As a woman I know that all those times I have been intimated by men, them touching me against my wishes, making unwanted comments about my appearance, not taking no for an answer when I don't want to talk to them etc all add up to a slight distrust of men I don't know, approaching me in certain situations. My uncomfortableness in certain situations doesn't come from a fear of being seriously assaulted or raped, it comes from just not wanting to be put in the position where I have to say no repeatedly or I have to take a hand off my body etc. I don't like it and I don't want it. I just want to do whatever it is I set out to do that day like read my book in the park or have a drink.

Of course there's some creepy ****ers who won't stop touching women or harassing them, but that doesn't mean you can say there's a rape culture. The chances are, if you walk up to some random bloke and say "this guy is harassing me", that guy will tell the person bugging you to fook off. I'd personally give it about 98% certainty that Person B will tell Person A to get out.

We'll give an example under the premise that we actually do have a rape culture. You're in a bar, Person A is being creepy. You tell Person B that the guy is being creepy and harassing you. If there was a rape culture, Person B would applaud Person A for his efforts.

lawlolawl

bluewolf wrote: »

Doesn't sound like anyone did deck them though does it
Instead we have guys lining up to say "well *i* wouldn't do it so it doesn't count"

I vote we deck every man in the country, just to make sure.

Am i a feminist yet?

noaddedsugar

Wibbs wrote: »

As a man in this country I am significantly more likely to be physically assaulted in my lifetime than a woman. Does a conversation need to be had on that? Of course and we have laws and police and courts(though as Widdershins notes we need far more dialogue on sentencing) and politics to debate this. However, even though my chances of being the subject of a kicking are high enough(and have had a few incidents in my time), this does not mean I see all men as potential thugs as it's a tiny minority in particular circumstances, nor do I walk the streets in a state of fear and intimidation and I certainly don't consider Ireland to be a particularly violent society. Of course we can always improve, but there's no need to go full paranoid and over the top about it either. Have I been the victim of assault? Yes. Do I see myself as a victim? Hell no.

Women tend to get low level harassment a lot though, maybe men do too I don't know. As a woman I know that all those times I have been intimated by men, them touching me against my wishes, making unwanted comments about my appearance, not taking no for an answer when I don't want to talk to them etc all add up to a slight distrust of men I don't know, approaching me in certain situations. My uncomfortableness in certain situations doesn't come from a fear of being seriously assaulted or raped, it comes from just not wanting to be put in the position where I have to say no repeatedly or I have to take a hand off my body etc. I don't like it and I don't want it. I just want to do whatever it is I set out to do that day like read my book in the park or have a drink.

I don't walk around being scared everyday, I don't feel like a victim, I'm not paranoid but I would be stupid not to have learnt from previous interactions with various men and to not have my guard up when men I don't know approach me in certain situations.

osmiumartist

Grayson wrote: »

Saying rape culture exists in Ireland isn't the same as saying it's irish culture. Like I said about Goth culture. It exists but it's not representative of Irish culture.

Then it isn't particularly descriptive of any men outside those in the pre-defined "rape culture". It has no connection to the general population. Can't have it both ways.
All men are potential rapists because of the "rape culture" of under 1% of the population.
Sure.

IvyTheTerrible

One thing I've remarked in this thread is that if we want people to be able to talk about assaults they've seen or been a victim of, we need to be teaching young people the correct names for body parts. Vulva /= vagina.

[Deleted User]

Tigger wrote: »

If I saw someone do that I would deck them
I

Doesn't sound like anyone did deck them though does it
Instead we have guys lining up to say "well *i* wouldn't do it so it doesn't count"

AnGaelach

Grayson wrote: »

It's not silence. We are all well aware of these things. I find it strange that there's a weird false equivalency there. It's possible to be against what happens in those hellholes and be against a more subtle rape culture here. It's not about choosing one over the other.

Yet the silence is deafening.

Grayson wrote: »

And I'm not saying all men are rapists. I'm not saying most are. But there is a very sexist undertone amongst some people. It's more visible with lad culture on campuses. If we said it existed in fraternities in the US the idea would be accepted far more than if we said it happened here. talk to girls in college. Ask them if there's a culture of fcukboys. Guys who really don't give a fcuk about women.

There's also a culture of sluttiness among certain groups of women, should I now claim women are projecting and protecting a slut culture? Don't be stupid. There's no such thing as a rape culture in Ireland.

Grayson wrote: »

Do women have it better here than in Saudi or the congo or anywhere like that? Yeah. Can it still be better here? Yeah. That's the point.

How, exactly? By going up to every single male on a campus and polling their opinions on women? By opening up Campus NSA? By trying to browbeat everyone who does something I find offensive?

People who talk about rape culture in Ireland are nothing more than whiny shítbirds and men trying to get laid by scoring nice guy points.

hollymartins

I see a tv critic commented on Louise O'Neills outfit during one interview in the show, her bare shoulders distracted him. LON has gone to town with outrage #shouldergate

I have to admit I was distracted by this outfit too but only because it looked awful.

I don't think she was interested in nuances of the law and why a jury may find a man not guilty of rape. It was almost like the victim should be believed without question or consideration given to possible false allegations.

Tigger

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Would dozens of men lining up to shake a convicted sexual assaulter's hand in Listowel, be a symptom of rape culture?

As a woman I would say that there are alot of good men in Ireland, but there are some very bad men, and every woman I know including myself has been sexually
assaulted, and I am counting S.a. as anything more than grabbing an ass in this instance. So in a country where women often feel unsafe, harassed and intimidated, conversations definitely need to be had.

Anyone that I discussed that with way shocked
We put it down to the Catholic Church, is the church an example or rape culture ?
Probably

Tigger

Specialun wrote: »

Who said you're expectated to take it?

If I saw someone do that I would deck them
If a mate told me they did it I'd spit on them and not bother with than again (althought I'd like to think that my mates are better than that)
Can't believe you think you have to take it

Widdershins

Grayson wrote: »

Saying rape culture exists in Ireland isn't the same as saying it's irish culture. Like I said about Goth culture. It exists but it's not representative of Irish culture.

I think that's one of the biggest bugbears in this discussion. The vast majority of Irish guys are decent blokes. You won't find any disagreement with that from anyone here (I'm sure you'll find some third wave feminist writer that thinks that but they aren't representative of all feminists).

I have no idea how many there are but if we say that it's one in a hundred men that's small enough that every bloke you know could be great and yet there would still be a large number of assholes out there.

1 in 100 might be thieves, wife beaters, child abusers, or otherwise nasty characters but we don't talk about nasty-behaviour culture of any kind. Ok, thieving isn't joked about in the way women are, but I don't believe joking equals intent OR tolerance of sexual assault.

Specialun

midlandsmissus wrote: »

For example, what I would say My least serious example of sexual assault would be: being grabbed by the vagina. And it's happened to numerous others that I know.

My boss recounted a tale to me of being at a social event in a hotel, and a man from a different group came up and grabbed her by her vagina, and she was still shocked and upset telling me. And I told her the story of when it happened to me too. I was in a nightclub, and a man just walked past, and shoved his hand right between my legs and grabbed my vagina.

We are just expected to take it. Interestingly, I've seen now that a man on a plane has been imprisoned for five months for touching a girl's vagina sitting next to him, so I think more girls will be confident about being able to charge these people.

Who said you're expectated to take it?