ASTI OctNov Action Post 1 for usual plea for restraint Especially New Posters

TheDriver wrote: »

It now seems that Gardaí on ground aren't too happy about their new proposals and probably feel they can get things they want. It's turning into a right mess for the Govt, even Varadkar is keeping quiet at moment

Useless to us. The gov will have us broken to pieces by time they ballot. We all know what happens when someone stands up to a bully, he goes harder on the next victim. The guards gave FG a bloody nose, they will take it out on us.&#55357;&#56862;

It now seems that Gardaí on ground aren't too happy about their new proposals and probably feel they can get things they want. It's turning into a right mess for the Govt, even Varadkar is keeping quiet at moment

Notorious

Villain wrote: »

My wife is a teacher and also my Brother, they have never worked 39 hours in a week so lets not tar all teachers with either brush

Well all know a teacher who clocks out once they've done their last class of the day. From my experience, they're in the minority.

Villain

Sarah3 wrote: »

Vin33, I am a current serving teacher but previous to my teaching career I worked in the private sector in a managerial role. I frequently worked more than my required 39 hours pw in that role and since becoming a teacher I can honestly say I now work more hours pw than previously when I take into account time in the evenings and at the weekend spent lesson planning, correcting tests etc. My husband frequently looks on wondering why I don't return to my previous job where I was paid more and my evenings could be spent with my family not working for my students. This is an all too frequent misconception with the general public that when the students finish the teachers also finish but never so.

My wife is a teacher and also my Brother, they have never worked 39 hours in a week so lets not tar all teachers with either brush

evolving_doors

Sarah3 wrote: »

Vin33, I am a current serving teacher but previous to my teaching career I worked in the private sector in a managerial role. I frequently worked more than my required 39 hours pw in that role and since becoming a teacher I can honestly say I now work more hours pw than previously when I take into account time in the evenings and at the weekend spent lesson planning, correcting tests etc. My husband frequently looks on wondering why I don't return to my previous job where I was paid more and my evenings could be spent with my family not working for my students. This is an all too frequent misconception with the general public that when the students finish the teachers also finish but never so.

Maybe if we only did our prep and corrections during the daytime.

Have you got our tests corrected from yesterday's tests miss?
Yissl get em the end of next month johnny.
Why so late miss?
Because I've decided to have a life when I go home johnny. A life.

Sarah3

vin33 wrote: »

Whether it's true or not, those/we who work in the private sector look with envy on the hours that teachers work. For sure it's true that our pensions don't come anywhere near and most people don't have a clue about this. If they did you would have no sympathy.
That actually is the point, because you could win this purely on your lpt point because the public are quite ignorant. So play that card.

Vin33, I am a current serving teacher but previous to my teaching career I worked in the private sector in a managerial role. I frequently worked more than my required 39 hours pw in that role and since becoming a teacher I can honestly say I now work more hours pw than previously when I take into account time in the evenings and at the weekend spent lesson planning, correcting tests etc. My husband frequently looks on wondering why I don't return to my previous job where I was paid more and my evenings could be spent with my family not working for my students. This is an all too frequent misconception with the general public that when the students finish the teachers also finish but never so.

Inspector Coptoor

deiseindublin wrote: »

I think you'd need that to do their job to be fair. More power to them.

Oh absolutely.
My father was a Garda for over 30 years.
I know what it's like for them.
I very nearly joined the Gardai over 12 years ago but chose teaching.

They are worth their pay.

People like Ed Walsh who has been on a pension of €100k a year scratching his hole for 13 years after getting €285k lump sum coming out with bile can jog on

judeboy101 wrote: »

And so begins project FEAR

More so propoganda and who believes eho

deiseindublin

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Total: €6450 on top of a basic of €23,750, an effective increase of 27% of current basic pay before any OT is factored in.

I think you'd need that to do their job to be fair. More power to them.

Inspector Coptoor

man_no_plan wrote: »

This is true but they were getting none at all nefore the TUI/INTO agreement. They have a claim in for the hdip allowance also which would cover that in some way. It was never possible to hold the degree and masters allowance simultaneously. I can't see how its more of a departure from the LRA than the pay increase for teachers where new entrants are concerned.

The LRA controls the unwinding of FEMPI. This effectively means pay restoration for those who had core pay cut and of course the pension lecy applied. I will take correction on this but as far as I know FEMPI wasnt used to cut new entrant salaries, this was done under the finance act along with changing pension arrangements. The equalisation of pay for new entrants is slightly seperate to the restoration element? Did the INMO not get something for new nurses last year too?

The rent allowance / degree allowance are of the same nature at the end of the day, all registered teachers or gardaí effectively get them.

I think that the loophole for guards is that they are assigned to a location by management. Many if their allowances seem to be historic as they couldn't access the labour court etc for a pay claim so an allowance for this that or the other were introduced.

The big issue is the 2k that all existing guards will get, 500 on top of the existing rent allowance plus the parade duty payment of about 1500. Will that be taken into consideration in future negotiations? Our s/s coming back was as a result of a cut but the HRA is clear that it will form part of future pay consideration.

And you have to add in the €15 per day for the 30 days annual leave so another €450.

A new Garda will now get
€4500 rent allowance
€1500 parade duty
€450 leave day money

Total: €6450 on top of a basic of €23,750, an effective increase of 27% of current basic pay before any OT is factored in.

TheDriver wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/minister-schools-closing-3062509-Nov2016/

And so begins project FEAR

http://www.thejournal.ie/minister-schools-closing-3062509-Nov2016/

hobbsd

You obviously have no experience of sitting on a board. The vast majority of boards of management have taken their cue from the JMB who are doing the dirty work of the DES in trying to break the union. This is a lockout, make no mistake and BoMs seem to have forgotten that they have a duty of care to their staff as well as their students. They have made what is a national issue, local and schools all around the country will suffer as a result. When this dispute is eventually resolved (nationally) BoMs and more importantly, Principals, will still be relying on teachers goodwill and if what I am hearing over & over again, teachers will never forget what their boards have done and I believe that boards have been ill advised in taking this unnecessary step. People need to be clear. The govt broke their side of the HR agreement by using FEMPI to refuse to pay teachers money due to them, after teachers fulfilled their part, in good faith, fully, in doing S&S for free for 3 years. So if parents are angry
(& they should be), then direct your anger at those truly responsible, the govt...

man_no_plan

amacca wrote: »

I would think theres a difference - you have to have an honours degree to get the honours degree allowance etc

A garda doesn't have to be renting to get the rent allowance do they?

This is true but they were getting none at all nefore the TUI/INTO agreement. They have a claim in for the hdip allowance also which would cover that in some way. It was never possible to hold the degree and masters allowance simultaneously. I can't see how its more of a departure from the LRA than the pay increase for teachers where new entrants are concerned.

The LRA controls the unwinding of FEMPI. This effectively means pay restoration for those who had core pay cut and of course the pension lecy applied. I will take correction on this but as far as I know FEMPI wasnt used to cut new entrant salaries, this was done under the finance act along with changing pension arrangements. The equalisation of pay for new entrants is slightly seperate to the restoration element? Did the INMO not get something for new nurses last year too?

The rent allowance / degree allowance are of the same nature at the end of the day, all registered teachers or gardaí effectively get them.

I think that the loophole for guards is that they are assigned to a location by management. Many if their allowances seem to be historic as they couldn't access the labour court etc for a pay claim so an allowance for this that or the other were introduced.

The big issue is the 2k that all existing guards will get, 500 on top of the existing rent allowance plus the parade duty payment of about 1500. Will that be taken into consideration in future negotiations? Our s/s coming back was as a result of a cut but the HRA is clear that it will form part of future pay consideration.

amacca wrote: »

I would think theres a difference - you have to have an honours degree to get the honours degree allowance etc

A garda doesn't have to be renting to get the rent allowance do they?

Now that's an interesting fact.......surely that's a very odd idea and if teachers received this, it would be tabloid front page

Lord TSC

JellieBabie wrote: »

Can someone clarify for me is the rent allowance for every guard? If so, how are lower paid guards' needs addressed?

Afaik, newly qualified officers got none before. Now they get €4500. Olde rguards got a €500 bump up to €4500 as well.

JellieBabie

Can someone clarify for me is the rent allowance for every guard? If so, how are lower paid guards' needs addressed?

amacca

man_no_plan wrote: »

No different to the hons degree allowance being addaed to the teachers scale.

I would think theres a difference - you have to have an honours degree to get the honours degree allowance etc

A garda doesn't have to be renting to get the rent allowance do they?

worseforwear wrote: »

Fleaswuss you're spot on,
call it off before the membership and the public is lost, let the govt take all the flak that's coming their way. LR is essentially dead now, play it smart now and let the other unions bur the corpse.

This post Imo is the way to go for the teachers. The last budget was a play to get votes in the very near future election. The problem is that people like me would rather see the guards teachers and nurses get paid before social welfare increases. But that is not politically correct.

evolving_doors

vin33 wrote: »

OK, I get that. But the world has changed and not for the better.

True, but a lot of teachers see EC as a way of making the world better:)

This has been trashed out a lot and I'd be very surprised if EC is ever used as a bargaining tool. Similarly, writing off EC for CP hours just wouldn't work.. well maybe the fools might introduce it, but once you start quantifying it then it'll spoil it.

worseforwear

Fleaswuss you're spot on,
call it off before the membership and the public is lost, let the govt take all the flak that's coming their way. LR is essentially dead now, play it smart now and let the other unions bur the corpse.

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I know some teachers would rather cut their fingers off than NOT do extra-curricular.

OK, I get that. But the world has changed and not for the better.

evolving_doors

vin33 wrote: »

Whether it's true or not, those/we who work in the private sector look with envy on the hours that teachers work. For sure it's true that our pensions don't come anywhere near and most people don't have a clue about this. If they did you would have no sympathy.
That actually is the point, because you could win this purely on your lpt point because the public are quite ignorant. So play that card.

I know some teachers would rather cut their fingers off than NOT do extra-curricular. Plus I think the union would see EC as outside teachers' duties so they wouldn't issue any directive on it.

paddybarry wrote: »

like all the extra curricular activities that teachers do but is never mentioned in the media?

Whether it's true or not, those/we who work in the private sector look with envy on the hours that teachers work. For sure it's true that our pensions don't come anywhere near and most people don't have a clue about this. If they did you would have no sympathy.
That actually is the point, because you could win this purely on your lpt point because the public are quite ignorant. So play that card.

vin33 wrote: »

Smart move would be to concede on sub and supervision as a gesture of good will and play the long game. Imo you burned this card already. My understanding is that once practise becomes established then its part of t&c's, good or bad for the individual. Another thing to consider is no parent in their right mind is going to publicly critise the teachers while their child is dependant on those same teachers. So don't bank on public support.

The smart move would have been to pull s&s but give them 8weeks notice. It would have made them put up or shut up. Id say we can last prob 2weeks from Monday before discipline breaks down (probably wishful thinking). Id hate to see a colleague do a billy Elliot's brother on it.

paddybarry

vin33 wrote: »

Smart move would be to concede on sub and supervision as a gesture of good will and play the long game. Imo you burned this card already. My understanding is that once practise becomes established then its part of t&c's, good or bad for the individual. Another thing to consider is no parent in their right mind is going to publicly critise the teachers while their child is dependant on those same teachers. So don't bank on public support.

like all the extra curricular activities that teachers do but is never mentioned in the media?

Smart move would be to concede on sub and supervision as a gesture of good will and play the long game. Imo you burned this card already. My understanding is that once practise becomes established then its part of t&c's, good or bad for the individual. Another thing to consider is no parent in their right mind is going to publicly critise the teachers while their child is dependant on those same teachers. So don't bank on public support.

Icsics wrote: »

Surely we can't be docked pay if we're still paying the 'opt out'?!

We are paying the opt out until Sunday then we don't have to pay opt out Monday but will be docked a days wages , same Tuesday. So technically you'll gain ~65 lose ~whatever a days work is for ur point on scale.

Icsics

judeboy101 wrote: »

17th Nov unless a bit is reduced due to mon7th to wed9th

Surely we can't be docked pay if we're still paying the 'opt out'?!