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The Garda Strike

Kermit.de.frog

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/garda-strike-now-more-likely-as-gra-rejects-offer-1.2849933

Didn't see a thread on this but if I was a criminal i'd be preparing for Christmas.

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flanzer

suicide_circus wrote: »

WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM

The straw that broke the camel's back imo

Boom_Bap

flanzer wrote: »

The straw that broke the camel's back imo

An apple made of straw?

tayto lover

Conmc88 wrote: »

[font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]It is illegal for anyone to encourage a garda to withdraw their labour, so it would be illegal for the GRA, AGSI or any other association or union to organise a strike.[/font]Under industrial relations legislation, garda are excluded from protections for striking workers.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-police-earn-right-to-strike-in-landmark-decision-by-european-body

tayto lover

Is it just me or is the Government using the Labour Court to try and break the garda strike?
Maybe i'm just being overly suspicious

Conmc88

tayto lover wrote: »

Conmc88 wrote: »

[font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]It is illegal for anyone to encourage a garda to withdraw their labour, so it would be illegal for the GRA, AGSI or any other association or union to organise a strike.[/font]Under industrial relations legislation, garda are excluded from protections for striking workers.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-police-earn-right-to-strike-in-landmark-decision-by-european-body

I genuinely didn't know this, This decision is a defining moment in our history and a significant decision for our future. I just never expected the protectors of the state to turn there backs on the constitution they were sworn in to protect. I hope they get nothing and an example is made of the greed of the men that dont show up to protect the state tomorrow. So much for honor in the Gardai eh!

flanzer

Boom_Bap wrote: »

An apple made of straw?

Yes, an apple made from straw

Boom_Bap

flanzer wrote: »

Yes, an apple made from straw

And why would one place this on a camel? :pac:

tayto lover

Conmc88 wrote: »

I genuinely didn't know this, This decision is a defining moment in our history and a significant decision for our future. I just never expected the protectors of the state to turn there backs on the constitution they were sworn in to protect. I hope they get nothing and an example is made of the greed of the men that dont show up to protect the state tomorrow. So much for honor in the Gardai eh!

Honour won't pay bills Con.
I genuinely don't blame them for going down this route. They were denied access to the Croke Park talks and were scoffed at by the Govt for long enough. Now it's a case of needs must.

Ted111

From following the news I thought the whole premise of the strike was that each individual was making a decision individually to withdraw labor. In other words there was no organisation or inducement or would be no evidence of such.
This seems like a piece of subterfuge but reflects how the whole legal position is a bit of a mess. It would seem to be against european law to prohibit workers from striking.

[Deleted User]

Conmc88 wrote: »

[font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]......, i didn't make any gard apply to be a gard, they new what the job entailed. why become a garda and then complain about it!!!! .......

I have to disagree strongly with the above statement. Gardai like Nurses and other frontline service personnel apply for those jobs because they are drawn to that type of work and usually see the more ideal nature of the work.
When you finish your training and are thrown into the reality of the job where government cutbacks, staff shortages, deficient equipment, abusive public etc are the norm but you still try to do your best because it's something that you really enjoy when all things are going well. You are out there helping people and that's why you applied for the job in the first place.

Nurses, Gardai, Paramedics, Firefighters etc should be treated far better than they are by the government and the public. At the same time, they also have the right to fight for better pay and conditions in the same way as everyone else.

Going Forward

suicide_circus wrote: »

WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM

Water charges?

Little CC is a prominent campaigner arguing for their reintroduction.

Alternatively we could look at how we managed to maintain our €600m annual foreign aid budget right through the economic crash and austerity years.

Or abolishing plans to abolish the USC....

Thats where it could come from, to answer the question.

Whether we should or not is a different matter.

suicide_circus

Your Face wrote: »

From a tax on capital letters.

So the magic money tree it is, there's a surprise.

drdeadlift wrote: »

same place the politicials get their raises from

As you're well aware those raises are a drop in the ocean compared to what will be needed to pay gardai. So other than TDs which other civil servants would you like is see lose money in order to pay gardai? Which services would you like to see cut? Which taxes would you like to see levied?

Ted111 wrote: »

I guess the govt of the day will do up a budget of proposed or predicted revenue and expenditure for the year ahead factoring in states wage bill. Mostly done once a year (although not always)

And when they do the budget which services would you like to see cut and/or which taxes would you like to see levied? or will we just thow it on the shoulders of our children in national debt.

Remember that unpleasantness a few years back with the IMF gentle pointed out that amongst other things we paid ourselves too much. Remember...mass unemployment, austerity, crippling national debt, ring any bells? Have we as a nation learned literally nothing? We'be only just got our heads above water and the slightest hiccup in international finance could send us back down in a heartbeat and yet the entire public service has the hand out looking for gravy. Do frontliners deserve it? A lot of them, yes. Do we have the money? I don't think so.

Going Forward

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have to disagree strongly with the above statement. Gardai like Nurses and other frontline service personnel apply for those jobs because they are drawn to that type of work and usually see the more ideal nature of the work.
When you finish your training and are thrown into the reality of the job where government cutbacks, staff shortages, deficient equipment, abusive public etc are the norm but you still try to do your best because it's something that you really enjoy when all things are going well. You are out there helping people and that's why you applied for the job in the first place.

Nurses, Gardai, Paramedics, Firefighters etc should be treated far better than they are by the government and the public. At the same time, they also have the right to fight for better pay and conditions in the same way as everyone else.

They could always try the private sector if their impression of the public sector doesn't live up to their expectations.

tayto lover

Going Forward wrote: »

They could always try the private sector if their impression of the public sector doesn't live up to their expectations.

Visa versa for the Private Sector. Would save a lot of whinging.

MeatTwoVeg

tayto lover wrote:

Believe it or not but I saw garda members on the water protests I was on and a few nurses and teachers too.

Protesting about revenue generating measures and then looking for more money from the State?

Some people really are morons.

Ted111

suicide_circus wrote: »

And when they do the budget which services would you like to see cut and/or which taxes would you like to see levied? or will we just thow it on the shoulders of our children in national debt.

.

I neither want them to win, nor do I think they necessarily will.
The strike could well be faced down. Some robberies, so what, the sky won't fall in. Traffic will flow better with the disgraceful bus lanes open as they should be to the citizens who paid for the roads. Four fridays in november, and if society goes on functioning, it puts the gardai in a weaker negotiating position.

However the emotive 'we're going to unplug a life support machine in Temple Street to pay a garda' isn't a realistic way to conduct states industrial relations with its employees. If the state can't afford to pay workers a fair wage then it shouldn't hire them in the first place.

tayto lover

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Protesting about revenue generating measures and then looking for more money from the State?

Some people really are morons.

I thought they were great to stand with the people.

Conmc88

Going Forward wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

I have to disagree strongly with the above statement. Gardai like Nurses and other frontline service personnel apply for those jobs because they are drawn to that type of work and usually see the more ideal nature of the work.
When you finish your training and are thrown into the reality of the job where government cutbacks, staff shortages, deficient equipment, abusive public etc are the norm but you still try to do your best because it's something that you really enjoy when all things are going well. You are out there helping people and that's why you applied for the job in the first place.

Nurses, Gardai, Paramedics, Firefighters etc should be treated far better than they are by the government and the public. At the same time, they also have the right to fight for better pay and conditions in the same way as everyone else.

They could always try the private sector if their impression of the public sector doesn't live up to their expectations.

god forbid they work in the private sector!!!! then who will they moan an complain to???

tayto lover

Conmc88 wrote: »

god forbid they work in the private sector!!!! then who will they moan an complain to???

You could try and better yourself Con. Like get up of your arse and fight for better pay and conditions yourself or re-train / educate yourself and apply for a better job. Looking up at the other lad is bad for your neck.

Conmc88

tayto lover wrote: »

Going Forward wrote: »

They could always try the private sector if their impression of the public sector doesn't live up to their expectations.

Visa versa for the Private Sector. Would save a lot of whinging.

I work in the private sector? havent had a pay rise in 5 years? do i threaten to down tools and strike, no because id be fired? im grateful for what i have and before you say anything i am on 1000 more than what a new recruit garda starts on. they have way more benefits than me and im here working for the past 7 years? but no no poor gardai cause they have the MOST dangerous job ha ha ha dosnt matter much anyway cause government arent going to survive all these strikes, so get your polling cards at the ready

suicide_circus

tayto lover wrote: »

I thought they were great to stand with the people.

government should probably just whack VAT up to 28%. that would pay for water infrastructure and a pay rise for gardai. or maybe a a few extra percent or VRT? or maybe keep the usc for a few more years? or duty on fuel? or maybe take that fiver for pensioners back or the dole Christmas bonus? or increase corporation tax? the possibilities are endless really but someone's got to pay for it.

tayto lover

Conmc88 wrote: »

I work in the private sector? havent had a pay rise in 5 years? do i threaten to down tools and strike, no because id be fired? im grateful for what i have and before you say anything i am on 1000 more than what a new recruit garda starts on. they have way more benefits than me and im here working for the past 7 years? but no no poor gardai cause they have the MOST dangerous job ha ha ha dosnt matter much anyway cause government arent going to survive all these strikes, so get your polling cards at the ready

You sound so unhappy. I think you could do much better than that in the private sector. Always try to get up a bit higher. Do a few courses as the wee bits of paper will help.

tayto lover

suicide_circus wrote: »

government should probably just whack VAT up to 28%. that would pay for water infrastructure and a pay rise for gardai. or maybe a a few extra percent or VRT? or maybe keep the usc for a few more years? or duty on fuel? or maybe take that fiver for pensioners back or the dole Christmas bonus? or increase corporation tax? the possibilities are endless really but someone's got to pay for it.

1% rise in the corporate tax rate would do it too. Or just make certain companies pay the right rates.

GM228

tayto lover wrote: »

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-police-earn-right-to-strike-in-landmark-decision-by-european-body

That ruling means nothing, it was a non binding "ruling" by the Council of Europe who have no legal powers in the matter.

[Deleted User]

I just don't understand how our police force can be one of the highest, if not the highest paid in the world, yet still be "low paid" and "on the bread line". Low paid compared to what, exactly? The *average* pay is almost twice the average industrial wage, meaning that many are earning much more than that.

Someone explain this to me, because I must be missing something!

TheDoc

suicide_circus wrote: »

WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM

Will come from money being taken from elsewhere and budget makers just pointing the finger at the Guards and whoever else, as being the cause of cuts in one area to supplement the other

Dublin_Gunner

So anyway I was thinking of heading down to army bargains to stock up on fatigues, boots, grenades, hunting knives and the like for the inevitable suburban crime spree coming tomorrow.

Anyone wanna gimme a quick crash course on survival tactics and dealing with intruders? I presume I could buy a gun or high powered crossbow handy enough tomorrow?

TheDoc

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

I just don't understand how our police force can be one of the highest, if not the highest paid in the world, yet still be "low paid" and "on the bread line". Low paid compared to what, exactly? The *average* pay is almost twice the average industrial wage, meaning that many are earning much more than that.

Someone explain this to me, because I must be missing something!

They will tell you it's about pay restoration.

Recessions are such an important thing to happen to economies every now and then. They trim the fat and get departments, companies etc lean and effective/efficient.

As you can see from all the pay strikes and disputes, you typically see that in Ireland we are at the higher end of the scale compared to EU counterparts, and the cutbacks during the recession brought us more in line.

It's just a case of everyone wanting to get back to the way it was, back to the gravy train. People havn't really adapted. They will say they have when things got tough, but they just moaned through it. So many sectors, people and professions never changed their mindset and expectations.

You'll see so many in their 20's like I saw with the teachers spin the "how am I supposed to buy a house". There is a fundamental issue in accepting the shifting tides, the change in reality. We want what we expected to have, and are not shifting to what we realistically can have.

I'm seeing mention here on the thread and in the papers this morning, breaking down some numbers, the avg Guarda member is on circa 60k a year, one of the higher paid public sector workers in the state?

Open to correction on those numbers, but I'd probably actually headbutt a Guard earning 60k crying at me about how it's so tough

Ted111

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

So anyway I was thinking of heading down to army bargains to stock up on fatigues, boots, grenades, hunting knives and the like for the inevitable suburban crime spree coming tomorrow.

Anyone wanna gimme a quick crash course on survival tactics and dealing with intruders? I presume I could buy a gun or high powered crossbow handy enough tomorrow?

Nothing ever stopping you killing an intruder into your house.
I certainly will.

If you go the route of an unlicensed gun or bow then you're going to have to dispose of the body. More complicated. Use a bat or steak knife. Put a knife from your kitchen in their dead paw.

Dyr

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

I just don't understand how our police force can be one of the highest, if not the highest paid in the world, yet still be "low paid" and "on the bread line". Low paid compared to what, exactly? The *average* pay is almost twice the average industrial wage, meaning that many are earning much more than that.

Someone explain this to me, because I must be missing something!

Property crash of 2008

Lot of the lads lost their bollix in that I'd say.