nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Why are men dropping out of society? - mod note in 1st post

maregal

I'd like this thread to discuss the reasons why men are dropping out of society and foregoing women rather than discuss whether it's a good or bad thing. Last time a poster espoused the merits of the MGTOW movement the angry feminists brigaded the forum and forced the thread closure. It's amusing how offended they get as a group when one single man declares he's not interested in them.

To keep the OP brief I'll list off some oft-suggested reasons and hopefully we can expand on them in the discussion.

Marriage is seen as a temporary arrangement these days rather than permanent. Men always lose out in the divorce. Look what the alimony payments did to Robin Williams.

A good job is hard to find. Everything is an internship, short contract or a dead end McJob. Employment quotas favour women and minorities.

Pornography making men docile?

Education system favours the female brain. Universities are packed with more females than males. SJW and politically correct dogma is shoved down your throat at these institutions.

Men being demonized. Grown man holding hands with his child in the public park = pedophile. Have consensual sex with a girl but she changes her mind the next day = rapist. Men are constantly fighting back their natural urge to rape and commit violence apparently.

I've a few more hypotheses but that should be enough to get the ball rolling.

Mod note:

To lessen the impact of troublesome rereg posters, we ask posters with fewer than 10 posts or who have been registered for fewer than 3 days not to post in this thread.

It is likely that newly registered users who post in contravention of the above request will be a troll or a rereg, who will be removed along with their posts and replies to them.

We ask other users to report any issues which may arise in this regard.

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

Potatoeman

Mr Arrior wrote: »

I get the feeling that Irish women don't really want to be approached in every day life. How do you tackle trying to get the attention of a woman in an every day scenario, if you see a beautiful Lady that is a friend of a mutual friend online, is it OK to try and get in contact out of nothing.
All questions that have me baffled.

There was a thread in the LL where the majority of posters said they didn't like it. That said single women do complain about Irish guys not approaching them when they throw the eye at a guy. If you have ever seen any brutal rejections though you might undrstand why things are the way they are. It's the worst of both sexes making things harder for everyone, the pushy guy and the bitchy girl.

Carlos Orange

Potatoeman wrote: »

That said single women do complain about Irish guys not approaching them when they throw the eye at a guy.

Clearly they need to work on their telepathy skills.

eeguy

Dr Jakub wrote: »

Things have gone backward. In the 'bad old days' a man could raise a family on a single pay check. Ok, you'd live in a modest house and didn't go abroad every year but so what. Now you scrape together every penny for the privilege of living in commuter hell. Or spend your entire life renting from some vulture fund in New York, nothing to leave to your kids.
The modern world is not a place for any kind of man.

Granted, houses are incredibly expensive, but only in cities. You can pick up a large house for very little in the country.
The days of a small town being sustained by a single factory are over, more jobs have moved to cities who have utterly failed to keep up with the moving population.
That's not societies fault, it's just that society is moving faster than government.

Also, things in the past weren't rosy. If you wanted to go back to the "good ol days" then get rid of all your modern comforts. Think of the money you'd save with no Internet, phone bill, reduced ESB and gas bill etc.

Potatoeman

psinno wrote: »

Clearly they need to work on their telepathy skills.

The usual response is that they don't want to seem desperate. It's not a great idea to expect a guy to approach a group though. It's seen a having to entertain everyone rather than talking the the woman you are interested in.

Wanderer78

eeguy wrote:

Also, things in the past weren't rosy. If you wanted to go back to the "good ol days" then get rid of all your modern comforts. Think of the money you'd save with no Internet, phone bill, reduced ESB and gas bill etc.

We could still have our mod cons if we had more control of our monetary and financial systems

eeguy

Wanderer78 wrote: »

We could still have our mod cons if we had more control of our monetary and financial systems

Shoulda coulda woulda.

Anyone who lives in rural Ireland will tell you that nearly all jobs have moved to the cities and large towns. Rural factories and employers have been put out of business by recession and so too all the services that depended on them.

There's huge migration to Dublin and commuter towns, along with Cork and Galway, and so, property and rent have increased.

You can blame whoever you want, but that's the reality right now and it's not looking to change for the next 5 years.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Wanderer78

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

some good points there but we have a growing inequality problem not just here in ireland but in many countries across the globe, america being one of the worst. neoliberal and free market economic policies are failing us badly. its time to move on from these ideologies or we could eventually end up in a serious war again.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Mr Arrior

Ya can't blame women for our problems. I wish I would get more attention from women but I know I'm not confident enough to get the desired attention. One of the biggest problems men face is mental health and ya can't blame women for that.

Wanderer78

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

its a difficult argument but our current policies are driving up the cost of living and or exposing us all particularly the most vulnerable in society. theres tons of evidence that these kind of policies are failing globally now. i think we need to implement some sort of middle ground, i.e. part protectionism and part free market, the only thing is, im not sure this has been implemented successfully anywhere.

eeguy

Wanderer78 wrote: »

some good points there but we have a growing inequality problem not just here in ireland but in many countries across the globe, america being one of the worst. neoliberal and free market economic policies are failing us badly.

The issue is that the goal posts have moved.

People complain that those with degrees are starting off on crappy wages. Yet degrees are the new leaving cert as minimum qualifications go.
If you can't go to college you're almost resigned to living in a min wage job or the dole

Wanderer78

eeguy wrote: »

The issue is that the goal posts have moved.

People complain that those with degrees are starting off on crappy wages. Yet degrees are the new leaving cert as minimum qualifications go.
If you can't go to college you're almost resigned to living in a min wage job or the dole

access to education is extremely important in reducing inequality so much so, i believe third level should be free for all

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

silverharp

Wanderer78 wrote: »

access to education is extremely important in reducing inequality so much so, i believe third level should be free for all

it depends on the quality, as a taxpayer I dont really want to pay for someone whose thesis was Twilight fans and associated associated Youtube comments. get thee to a McDonalds and do something useful :pac:

Rory28

Wanderer78 wrote: »

access to education is extremely important in reducing inequality so much so, i believe third level should be free for all

I would rather they priced the courses differently. Actual courses with employment prospects can stay the same price or drop it back down to pre recession prices but the likes of those arts courses or medieval literature should not cost the same as an engineering course. one is a job the other is a hobby and takes grant money away from the real courses.

midnight city

eeguy wrote: »

The issue is that the goal posts have moved.

People complain that those with degrees are starting off on crappy wages. Yet degrees are the new leaving cert as minimum qualifications go.
If you can't go to college you're almost resigned to living in a min wage job or the dole

3 year hons degree should be standard from now on. Make them work harder during those 3 years. Less of the 15 hour weeks nonsense. 4 years is too much time and can act as a hindrance to those who may want to change career.

intheclouds

silverharp wrote: »

it depends on the quality, as a taxpayer I dont really want to pay for someone whose thesis was Twilight fans and associated associated Youtube comments. get thee to a McDonalds and do something useful :pac:

And youre qualified to judge the quality of other peoples academic interests?

Rory28

intheclouds wrote: »

And youre qualified to judge the quality of other peoples academic interests?

if the taxpayer is paying then yes. the courses available for grants should be of benefit to society not just because they want to spend 4 years putting off growing up so they can "study" liberal arts or something.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

eeguy

midnight city wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

My eng degree was 4 years hard work.

Anyways, the original point was that men were losing out as "breadwinners" because costs of living were high and wages low.
My point was that costs of living are lower, compared to the amount of conveniences we now have and the wages are only lower because it's generally accepted that a degree is the min standard to get a reasonably "professional" job.

There's plenty of threads around to discuss the merits of an Arts degree.

Permabear wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I wonder what the gender split is like in apprenticeships and FAS courses. From my own experience they're heavily biased towards men. Would than not explain the 7% difference?

intheclouds

Rory28 wrote: »

if the taxpayer is paying then yes. the courses available for grants should be of benefit to society not just because they want to spend 4 years putting off growing up so they can "study" liberal arts or something.

Seriously?

You think arts and humanities are of no benefit to society?

Thankfully youre not in charge of deciding these things.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

midnight city

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Have you noticed anyone in authority or the media raising this as an issue. I haven't. Its almost celebrated that girls are outperforming boys so much.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

midnight city

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

A qualified carpenter, plumber or electrician is every bit as useful to society and as good a career choice as a degree qualified nurse or physiotherapist i suppose.

I do think the issue of girls outperforming boys so much at secondary school is a problem that needs to be addressed. We are seeing far more girls entering the high points courses like Law, Medicine, Pharmacy now.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Wanderer78

interesting talk about capitalism on newstalk now:

https://www.newstalk.com/#

intheclouds

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I know some so called engineers who couldnt change a plug but I wouldnt write off engineering as a discipline because of it.

We wouldnt have STEM subjects at all if not for the creativity fostered by arts and humanities. Creativity is what gives us our humanity. Without art or culture we're just ants.

Carlos Orange

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

It isn't that gender equality isn't a concern it is that they have defined gender equality purely in gendered term.