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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

Hammer Archer

New thread continued from here.

Welcome to the Waterford GAA discussion thread.

This is consistently the most active thread don the GAA forum. As a result, discussion can get quite heated. But there are certain things posters must realise are simply not OK to post:

- Personal abuse of anyone be they other posters, players, managers, referees, pundits etc. Any personal abuse will result in an infraction or a ban.

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- Accusations of trolling. Report a post if you suspect it to be trolling. Do not call a troll out on thread as this will be considered back seat modding.

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This list is not exhaustive. Either myself or another mod may add to this as we see fit. Just because a certain behaviour isn't listed, doesn't mean you can't be banned for it.
The general Boards.ie rule of Don't be a Dick always applies.

If you feel a post breaks the rules, simply click this underneath the post in question to report the post and a mod will deal with it as they see fit.

So be civil to each other and happy posting.

***EDIT (20/11/2015): Quite frankly I'm getting a bit sick of the thread regularly descending into tit for tat insults between posters. From now on, it won't be a card but a ban straight away for anything like this. The mod warning is clear in the first post but yet people still ignore it.
Also, I'd like to remind people of the ban on discussing players'/managers'/officials' private lives without any substance. You can be getting into libelous territory there. So a zero tolerance policy will be enforced as well.

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culbaire

thesultan wrote: »

O'Keefe is getting critized over nothing really. Our best option by a bit. Seanie Barry has a lot of brain farts in goal.most of billy Nolan's scores are from frees and fellas want him on the county team outfield

The fact is that Stephen O'Keeffe has made a lot of blunders this year and was not up to his usual high standard. Capable of great things but increasingly error prone. Would not refer to some of the errors as "nothing really".

Deise Gael

Last I heard Adrian Power was hurling for Na Fianna in San Francisco, not sure if he's still with them or not.

DiscoStew

thesultan wrote: »

He didn't want to fight for his place

IIRC It was generally expected Power and Socky would fight it out for the number one spot. Iggy was brought in to the equation by Ryan which surprised many at the time. Socky and Iggy shared the first few games of the league that year. Training games saw 1 keeper playing outfield as a result of having 3 on the panel and the rumour was Power told him what he thought of it. The private links between Iggy and Ryan left Power a bit aggrieved it would seem.
Now I think Socky was marginally the best of the three anyway. I think Power left for the US shortly after, don't think he has featured for Ballyduff since. Anyone know does he play for a club over there or is he even still there?

cul beag

thesultan wrote: »

O'Keefe is getting critized over nothing really. Our best option by a bit. Seanie Barry has a lot of brain farts in goal.most of billy Nolan's scores are from frees and fellas want him on the county team outfield

Agree with you about Nolan. I don't see what all the excitement is about to be honest. Nice striker,good free taker but that's about it. He's a good bit off inter county standard yet. Maybe in time he will develop into one but at the moment no. As regards Socky his mistakes are becoming costly and unfortunately in his position all mistakes can prove extremely costly and will then be scrutinised even more so. Iggy is his number 2 for so many yrs now that the whole thing is gone stale and socky knows he has no opposition for the goal so he definitely has become complacent.

thesultan

robopaddy2 wrote: »

It was Michael Ryan, after Clinton Hennessy retired Power thought he'd be automatic choice after being reserve keeper for 4 or 5 years. Skully didn't rate him and brought back Iggy O'Regan and SOK in from the u21s. Power headed for the States and is there since.

He didn't want to fight for his place

danganabu

liogairmhordain wrote: »

IIRC that last puckout was caught by David Fitzgerald who is far from Clare's best player

He would be a lot closer to been Clare's best player as opposed to Waterford's!

TheScoringGoal wrote: »

I find it hard to understand how Stephen O Keeffe can be criticised for errors but Adrian Power remembered positively? O Keeffe can do everything Power did and more. In all my time watching Power play underage, club, schools and county I can never remember a short pick out.

Hurling has changed and evolved, Brendan Cummins never hit a short puck out either as it wasn't part of the game, I doubt that Noel Skehan, Tony Reddan or Ollie Walsh were too adept at it either!

Rebel norrie

Anything happen to Modeligo coach who threw bottle at a Brickeys player in Wesern semi final.

Deise Gael

Whatever about the respective talents of the other keepers a situation should not have been allowed develop where SOK is completely unopposed in the Waterford squad for the position. He has become far too complacent as is only to be expected with no credible alternative in the squad to push him. SOK would be the first to agree his form in the past 18 months has not been up to his usual standards.

robopaddy2

Giveitfong wrote: »

You don't have to be a club goalkeeper to play in that position at county level. As stated, Kilkenny's Eoin Murphy plays outfield for his club. So did the late Tommy Quaid, one of the best goalies ever. I think being an outfield player at club level can be of benefit for county goalies, as they tend to have the hurling to get out of sticky situations.

With good coaching, Jordan Henley could make an excellent goalkeeper. He is unlikely to get near the county team as an outfield player. I couldn't see Billy Nolan making the grade outfield, but he could be one hell of a county goalie.

Adrian Power was one who came up through the underage ranks as a goalie, and was one of the best prospects ever, but he apparently couldn't get on with county management (was it Davy?) and moved abroad. I had Seanie Barry also marked out as a future county goalie, but apparently something similar happened to him.

They say the best goalies in all sports tend to be a bit crazy, and require careful handling by county managers whose primary focus should be on what is best for the county, and not on their own egos or control freakery. This has not always been the case with recent Waterford managers.

It was Michael Ryan, after Clinton Hennessy retired Power thought he'd be automatic choice after being reserve keeper for 4 or 5 years. Skully didn't rate him and brought back Iggy O'Regan and SOK in from the u21s. Power headed for the States and is there since.

thesultan

Deise Gael wrote: »

Billy Nolan and Seanie Barry are the two best options other than SOK in the county at the moment. Im not sure if Billy wants to concentrate on goal or out field but he is class in either place. Seanie Barry contracted an illness about two years ago which restricted his ability to train properly but I heard this is now under control. I saw him in a couple of Lismore's matches this year and he was excellent.

O'Keefe is getting critized over nothing really. Our best option by a bit. Seanie Barry has a lot of brain farts in goal.most of billy Nolan's scores are from frees and fellas want him on the county team outfield

robopaddy2

Giveitfong wrote: »

You don't have to be a club goalkeeper to play in that position at county level. As stated, Kilkenny's Eoin Murphy plays outfield for his club. So did the late Tommy Quaid, one of the best goalies ever. I think being an outfield player at club level can be of benefit for county goalies, as they tend to have the hurling to get out of sticky situations.

With good coaching, Jordan Henley could make an excellent goalkeeper. He is unlikely to get near the county team as an outfield player. I couldn't see Billy Nolan making the grade outfield, but he could be one hell of a county goalie.

Adrian Power was one who came up through the underage ranks as a goalie, and was one of the best prospects ever, but he apparently couldn't get on with county management (was it Davy?) and moved abroad. I had Seanie Barry also marked out as a future county goalie, but apparently something similar happened to him.

They say the best goalies in all sports tend to be a bit crazy, and require careful handling by county managers whose primary focus should be on what is best for the county, and not on their own egos or control freakery. This has not always been the case with recent Waterford managers.

Have you seen him play? Serious talent

TheScoringGoal

Giveitfong wrote: »

You don't have to be a club goalkeeper to play in that position at county level. As stated, Kilkenny's Eoin Murphy plays outfield for his club. So did the late Tommy Quaid, one of the best goalies ever. I think being an outfield player at club level can be of benefit for county goalies, as they tend to have the hurling to get out of sticky situations.

With good coaching, Jordan Henley could make an excellent goalkeeper. He is unlikely to get near the county team as an outfield player. I couldn't see Billy Nolan making the grade outfield, but he could be one hell of a county goalie.

Adrian Power was one who came up through the underage ranks as a goalie, and was one of the best prospects ever, but he apparently couldn't get on with county management (was it Davy?) and moved abroad. I had Seanie Barry also marked out as a future county goalie, but apparently something similar happened to him.

They say the best goalies in all sports tend to be a bit crazy, and require careful handling by county managers whose primary focus should be on what is best for the county, and not on their own egos or control freakery. This has not always been the case with recent Waterford managers.

I find it hard to understand how Stephen O Keeffe can be criticised for errors but Adrian Power remembered positively? O Keeffe can do everything Power did and more. In all my time watching Power play underage, club, schools and county I can never remember a short pick out.

Deise Gael

Billy Nolan and Seanie Barry are the two best options other than SOK in the county at the moment. Im not sure if Billy wants to concentrate on goal or out field but he is class in either place. Seanie Barry contracted an illness about two years ago which restricted his ability to train properly but I heard this is now under control. I saw him in a couple of Lismore's matches this year and he was excellent.

Giveitfong

You don't have to be a club goalkeeper to play in that position at county level. As stated, Kilkenny's Eoin Murphy plays outfield for his club. So did the late Tommy Quaid, one of the best goalies ever. I think being an outfield player at club level can be of benefit for county goalies, as they tend to have the hurling to get out of sticky situations.

With good coaching, Jordan Henley could make an excellent goalkeeper. He is unlikely to get near the county team as an outfield player. I couldn't see Billy Nolan making the grade outfield, but he could be one hell of a county goalie.

Adrian Power was one who came up through the underage ranks as a goalie, and was one of the best prospects ever, but he apparently couldn't get on with county management (was it Davy?) and moved abroad. I had Seanie Barry also marked out as a future county goalie, but apparently something similar happened to him.

They say the best goalies in all sports tend to be a bit crazy, and require careful handling by county managers whose primary focus should be on what is best for the county, and not on their own egos or control freakery. This has not always been the case with recent Waterford managers.

seananigans

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

I just don't see it in Henley he is better out the field. I was told recently from someone in Roanmore that he wants to concentrate on outfield and merit his place that way not as a keeper

tis no harm , but there are 14 times as many outfielders than goalies, if he is given the chance of keeping or not playing county, i think i know the decision

mickmackmcgoo

I just don't see it in Henley he is better out the field. I was told recently from someone in Roanmore that he wants to concentrate on outfield and merit his place that way not as a keeper

seananigans

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

Who are these fantastic options ? Billy Nolan does not want to be a keeper. Gavin power is not available and Jordan Henley is very average and every bit as bad at the short puck outs. For example under 21 last year v clare he gave away lots of scores from poor puck outs

Gavin power is not available....yet ,im sure in the next 10 years he will be

Jordan Henley had a bad game... last year.. did you see him against tipp? seems he's come on some

Billy Nolan will do what he is asked to do if it is for his county, if that means being a keeper i have no doubt he will do it.

mickmackmcgoo

seananigans wrote:

for a small club it's natural to push the older players into goal when younger lads have the legs, KK's keeper plays outfield for club, not because there's someone better because he can contribute more by the club fielding a deeper squad , we are really lucky we have some fantastic options in goal for the next 10-15 years , socky amazing shot stopper hopefully he can click on the ball placement next year , however much you might groan, i imagine he goes to sleep thinking about it

Who are these fantastic options ? Billy Nolan does not want to be a keeper. Gavin power is not available and Jordan Henley is very average and every bit as bad at the short puck outs. For example under 21 last year v clare he gave away lots of scores from poor puck outs

seananigans

robopaddy2 wrote: »

I think the problem being that a lot of these underage goalies are actually outfield players who have been converted to keepers when there isn't any obvious candidates. Think of our last 3 minor and u21 keepers, Billy Nolan, Jordan Henley and Gavin Power, all outfield players for their clubs. Seanie Barry of Lismore is the most recent who has actually come up through the ranks as a keeper, and not chopped and changed as an outfield player. Whether hes in contention for the senior panel I don't know. But keepers should be ear-marked and nurtured from Tony Forristal up. Identify the most naturally gifted keeper, and establish if that's where he actually wants to play going forward.

for a small club it's natural to push the older players into goal when younger lads have the legs, KK's keeper plays outfield for club, not because there's someone better because he can contribute more by the club fielding a deeper squad , we are really lucky we have some fantastic options in goal for the next 10-15 years , socky amazing shot stopper hopefully he can click on the ball placement next year , however much you might groan, i imagine he goes to sleep thinking about it

liogairmhordain

JesusRef wrote: »

the speed of sokys last puckout - almost directly to Clares best player, is what lost us the league final...

IIRC that last puckout was caught by David Fitzgerald who is far from Clare's best player

robopaddy2

JesusRef wrote: »

Shot- stopping is so far down the list of qualities required for inter county hurling that doesnt even matter or shouldnt even be taking into consideration.

Look at our games against Tipp or Kk this year, when one of the top forwards gets through and breaches your defence, its a goal... you may as well have no one in there.

Soky aint a good decision maker - look at his last puck out in the replayed league final against Clare, when everyone in the stadium including the players were thinking wtf... whatever about the ref - his decision levelled the game - but the speed of that puckout - almost directly to Clares best player, won the league for them.

Soky is a good goalie, but he is miles off ever being a real top one, there is no one in the county to challenge him at the moment, with a lot of the goalies on underage teams coming up being converted outfield players who may never even play in gosl at senior club level

I think the problem being that a lot of these underage goalies are actually outfield players who have been converted to keepers when there isn't any obvious candidates. Think of our last 3 minor and u21 keepers, Billy Nolan, Jordan Henley and Gavin Power, all outfield players for their clubs. Seanie Barry of Lismore is the most recent who has actually come up through the ranks as a keeper, and not chopped and changed as an outfield player. Wheather hes in contention for the senior panel I don't know. But keepers should be ear-marked and nurtured from Tony Forristal up. Identify the most naturally gifted keeper, and establish if that's where he actually wants to play going forward.

JesusRef

Shot- stopping is so far down the list of qualities required for inter county hurling that doesnt even matter or shouldnt even be taking into consideration.

Look at our games against Tipp or Kk this year, when one of the top forwards gets through and breaches your defence, its a goal... you may as well have no one in there.

Soky aint a good decision maker - look at his last puck out in the replayed league final against Clare, when everyone in the stadium including the players were thinking wtf... whatever about the ref whos bad decision against jamie barron actually only levelled the game - but the speed of sokys last puckout - almost directly to Clares best player, is what lost us the league final...

Soky is a good goalie, but he is miles off ever being a real top one, there is no one in the county to challenge him at the moment, with a lot of the goalies on underage teams coming up being converted outfield players who may never even play in goal at senior club level

PTH2009

just finished Ken Mcgraths book and it was a very easy read. legend of a player, had a very bad stint in 2013/14 with his health and is very lucky to be still alive. He believes we will get an All Ireland senior title with this current crop of players

I wonder who will bring out a book next Paul Flynn, Tony Browne, Brick ???

deisedude

Soky is the best keeper we've had in years. Yes, he is liable to a brain fart and a bad puckout or 2 but he has improved greatly in the air and is as good a shotstopper as there is in the country. There is nobody in the county on his level at the moment

Clinton was very good in commanding the square and general tidying up but he was never the best shotstopper in the world

culbaire

tomwaterford wrote: »

And where did I say he was cowardly??

If it was choice between the two and a forward bearing down on goal... Who'd you pick

He was quite rightly slated for turning back to the ball that day above in cork..... I should know I stood up behind and seen it.......its immaterial as the game was up by then

Would he have done what O'Keeffe done v Nash..... The only thing I ever seen at a match to silence thurles for a split second

This is what you posted referring to Clinton Hennessy:

I remember being at a munster final where the ball trickled through brennners legs
Another where Clinton Hennessy turned his arse to the ball when a lad taking a shot

My conclusion is perfectly logical. You were insinuating that Clinton Hennessy was cowardly.

tomwaterford

culbaire wrote: »

Clinton Hennessy was a fine goalkeeper. He WON two Munster Senior hurling medals and one NHL medal. Your criticism of him is most unfair! He was anything but cowardly.

And where did I say he was cowardly??

If it was choice between the two and a forward bearing down on goal... Who'd you pick

He was quite rightly slated for turning back to the ball that day above in cork..... I should know I stood up behind and seen it.......its immaterial as the game was up by then

Would he have done what O'Keeffe done v Nash..... The only thing I ever seen at a match to silence thurles for a split second

robopaddy2

cul beag wrote: »

That's the best you've got?

Not interested in a trolling match, you've referred to this 'selector dilemma' numerous times but anytime someone asks you what youre on about you come back with a load of 'read between the lines' crap. Its usually some theory related to McGrath we all know your feelings on him at this stage, Either put up or shut-up.

cul beag

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Any chance you might share the reason why then for those of us not 'on the pulse'? Or just continue to make bulls**t implications to suit your own agenda...

That's the best you've got?

robopaddy2

seananigans wrote: »

.

he did this on his own did he ?

fact is our glory team of the noughties had many passengers including clinton .

we had maybe ten class players, and then the also rans, unfurtinately if dan eoin or paul didnt play out of their skin we lost there were no subs no plan b , im glad to be in a position now we have 23 ish starters avvailable one or 2 positions arent contested but most are , long may it last

Ah go home boy, aren't you the fellah who came on here last week and said Iggy O'Regan would have been winning multiple All Irelands for KK or Tipp if he wasn't from Waterford. He was very much down the pecking order from Clinton for years, a player you describe as a passenger. Think its safe to say your judgement of goalkeepers are not to be taken at face value

robopaddy2

cul beag wrote: »

Truth be known here it's far from hearsay and far from cheap shots. Fool me once shame on you,fool me twice shame on me! I'll leave you work it out from there. Unfortunately being at the other end of the planet doesn't help you keep your finger on the pulse so to speak but McGrath's closest ally is gone so what's that telling you? It wasn't the anti McGrath brigade that did that!!

Any chance you might share the reason why then for those of us not 'on the pulse'? Or just continue to make bulls**t implications to suit your own agenda...