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Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Timmaay

24/6/16

Recently we saw three posters close their accounts over disagreements in the dairy threads. While there is a lot of frustration and discontent with current milk prices and the processing industry, the recent tendency for dairy threads to become tit-for-tat arguments isn’t tolerable for those not involved.

All farming sectors go through difficult periods and during such times there may need to be changes in how threads are moderated.

Dairy threads are going to be more closely monitored and subject to stricter moderation for a while.

To that end we won’t tolerate baiting of posters, constantly reviving old arguments, posters with agendas or crusading for a cause.

Whether it’s discussion of the business or politics of the dairy or other sectors, we expect civility and tolerance toward each other and other opinions as diversity of opinion is needed as a source of different ways of looking at a situation.

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert

Also please be aware that what you may post as light-hearted banter can be read totally differently by someone adversely affected by the subject matter and evoke a reaction you hadn’t intended.

The ‘Off-Season’ forum, and its anonymous posting, is available for anyone to chat about their situation.

The Mod Team.

10 away from the 10000 posts! Frazz I think it's fair to say this thread has been a success!

Indeed it was! First thread can be found here- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056872221

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pedigree 6

Water John wrote: »

The cluster routine is to keep clawpiece in one hand and put on four clusters with the other. Switching hands slows down the operation and also risks a drop or slip with open clusters at risk of intake.
Takes a small bit of practise but it will speed you up.

I ain't changing and changing hands on every cow only takes half a second and me or the father have none of these hand or wrist problems that ye all have.
The left hand takes the weight for 2 seconds, the right hand then takes the weight for 2 seconds.
It takes a small bit of practice but you won't be in hospital with hand, wrist and shoulder problems.;):D

Water John

Each to their own Ped.
I'm just giving you the logic of it. Your a stubborn man.
My way or no way.

pedigree 6

Water John wrote: »

Each to their own Ped.
I'm just giving you the logic of it. Your a stubborn man.
My way or no way.

Look the logic is you usually do a row at a time. How long is a row say a small one.
12 units. That's 4 seconds on each cow with the one hand taking the weight.
4 × 12 = 48 seconds that the one hand is holding the up that weight for as opposed to my way the one hand only holds up that weight for 24 seconds.
Spread the weight on each hand it's a lot safer on your body in the long run and then no crossing over your other hand.
That's what does your shoulders in.

Water John

Ah your damn weak!! Saves doing press ups in the gym.

greysides

Boys..... be good..... or you won't be getting the cream off the house cow tonight!!

pedigree 6

Water John wrote: »

Ah your damn weak!! Saves doing press ups in the gym.

Says the man with sore wrists and two knee and hip replacements.:D

pedigree 6

greysides wrote: »

Boys..... be good..... or you won't be getting the cream off the house cow tonight!!

What's the house cows name?

greysides

pedigree 6 wrote: »

What's the house cows name?

'Betty Bluebell', the Black White head................:D

Buford T. Justice XIX

I was talking to a local farmer earlier today. He was telling me he spreads washed lime from a local tarmac manufacturer on rented ground. He buys it for 6 euro a tonne and has his own spreader.

It's probably the equivalent of Gran lime but damn cheap still.

Timmaay

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/farmers-vote-with-their-feet-66-see-no-future-in-liquid-milk/

Not surprised with them results. But not one mention of lifestyle reasons?? That's the main reason I've ditched autumn calving, financially it pays grand once I have a bonus of some sort on all the Nov to Jan litres.

jaymla627

Cousin landed into the yard this evening happy as Larry, his brother and him just after landing two jobs for two 180 cow cubicle sheds in my area and 3 robots going into each one, looks like the gold rush is back on haha

Buford T. Justice XIX

jaymla627 wrote: »

Cousin landed into the yard this evening happy as Larry, his brother and him just after landing two jobs for two 180 cow cubicle sheds in my area and 3 robots going into each one, looks like the gold rush is back on haha

Who's going to be making the most from the robots though, Jay?

The farmer or the robotics suppliers?

jaymla627

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Who's going to be making the most from the robots though, Jay?

The farmer or the robotics suppliers?

Lely won't be getting the short end of the stick that's for sure, I reckon only for tams schemes we wouldn't of seen anything l like their uptake has been the last few years....
Will be interesting to see in 5-10 years time when wear and tear kick in what running costs will be like compared to conventional systems

bealaha

Found this posted on facebook

Robots vs OAD - bling bling vs ching ching

If there is one thing the robot milking machine companies are good at, it’s marketing!! With all the great stories farmers are bombarded with now, the question needs to be asked; How much of it is true?

I have met a few farmers and looked at their systems and profitability before and after going to robot milking, and in most cases a vast improvement is made in fertility, grazing and profit but I would have to question whether it was the robot that created this change or that they changed their complete farming style. If all of a sudden they are out measuring grass, allocating the right grazing area and analysing their systems, feeding their cows much better than they had ever done before and, as a result, production, cow health and profitability has improved then they are now no worse off than they were before except that they have a half million or so more debt to service.
With all that money spent, they are probably not about to tell you it was a poor decision and don’t recognise that the robots were the instigation, not the reason. On the other hand, it may just have taken the investment for them to become better farmers which is certainly not a bad thing either.

I am not saying robot milking is always a bad option, I am just saying you need to be very clear that you know what to believe and that if you are considering robot milking, it is for the right reasons.
I work with a few farmers that are committed to going to robots or are considering going that way and I am happy to work with them to maximise their profitability but have no doubt that in the majority of cases a conventional parlour is more profitable.

Two of the main reasons farmers are considering robots is labour and cow health. If this is the case then I would really urge you to consider the other option that can meet these objectives but at greater profitability, once a day milking (OAD).

I have worked with farmers in NZ for several years and have been instrumental in converting some of my clients in NZ to switch to OAD milking and I have yet to meet a OAD farmer who would consider going back to TAD milking. In most cases production is back to the same overall level in around 4 years once the herd is adjusted properly and the cows that don’t cope with the system weeded out.
The main advantages are; reduced labour and stress on the operator, better BCS cows, better fertility and as a result, longer average lactation days and lactations, reduced young stock numbers, more selective culling, less lame and in general, happier cows and farmers.
The negatives are that some cows don’t cope with OAD and there are bigger losses for the first few years, you must have the right cow type (dual purpose breed a definite no-no!) and more SCC/mastitis issues for the first few years.
To be a successful, profitable OAD farmer you must be good at what you do, it is not the lazy option!!
OAD may be less glamorous than robot milking but if it achieves the objectives as a more profitable option then surely it must be considered.
So if you have longer walking distances for the cows, your parlour is marginally struggling to cope and you are wanting to see the gains as mentioned above, you really should consider OAD milking as an option. There are now many farmers in Ireland successfully running a OAD system who are mostly very open about their system and open to giving advice/information and there is a very good OAD discussion group meeting at OAD farms on a regular basis.

If you are considering the options you can approach some of these farmers or alternatively I am available to look at your current system, help do the figures and give advice on alternatives.

Andre van Barneveld
Dairy Consultant
Graise Ltd
00353 87 9418868
graiseconsult@gmail.com

Found this posted on Facebook quite interesting

Timmaay

jaymla627 wrote: »

Lely won't be getting the short end of the stick that's for sure, I reckon only for tams schemes we wouldn't of seen anything l like their uptake has been the last few years....
Will be interesting to see in 5-10 years time when wear and tear kick in what running costs will be like compared to conventional systems

How much is a lely brand new, 120k?, take a young farmer getting into milking, 60% of 80k is 48k, that stands the robot at 72k. Considering it could milk about 90 xbreds, it wouldnt be the worst of economics, assuming the service charge isn't that high, I've heard anything from 3k to 6k/yr?

Then again, like in the post above, lash in an 18unit barebones for the likes of 30k after grant, and spend 90min max/day milking OAD.

CowMeister

jaymla627 wrote: »

Cousin landed into the yard this evening happy as Larry, his brother and him just after landing two jobs for two 180 cow cubicle sheds in my area and 3 robots going into each one, looks like the gold rush is back on haha

Robots are becoming very popular around here. Neighbour is putting in 4. Cows in full time and zero grazing the grass into them. People think there mad but I'd say more luck to them

Signpost

CowMeister wrote: »

Robots are becoming very popular around here. Neighbour is putting in 4. Cows in full time and zero grazing the grass into them. People think there mad but I'd say more luck to them

I'm on a poorer land platform to others here and have often thought would doing something similar be viable. Could easily Zero Graze when couldn't feed if ground wasn't poached and my milking platform would be suitable for umbilical spreading. My biggest concern thou is how can the dept stop this form of farming kicking off as it could be contrived as 'factory farming' and probably go against the whole 'Grass Based' milk supply mantra thats apparently sold to our exporters. If they can farm that way in Holland with far less land I don't see how it wouldn't pay here.

mahoney_j

Signpost wrote: »

I'm on a poorer land platform to others here and have often thought would doing something similar be viable. Could easily Zero Graze when couldn't feed if ground wasn't poached and my milking platform would be suitable for umbilical spreading. My biggest concern thou is how can the dept stop this form of farming kicking off as it could be contrived as 'factory farming' and probably go against the whole 'Grass Based' milk supply mantra thats apparently sold to our exporters. If they can farm that way in Holland with far less land I don't see how it wouldn't pay here.

If land can carry a z grazer it can carry a cow,guy not too far from me sank huge money into big fook off shed ,seperator for slurry ,flush system with 2 robots initially then plan to add 2 'more .all cows housed year round ,grass z grazed in .extra 2 robots never went in and first 2 didn't last 2 years

mf240

mahoney_j wrote: »

If land can carry a z grazer it can carry a cow

Certain land will carry a zerograzer when it won't carry cows. Have some bog here and it's only the skin that's keeping the cows up. Often seen some of it poached in shyte and you'd still be able to spread slurry on it and do no harm. Have to have the drinkers out on the lane and leave the gaps open as any kind of congregating of cows and they break the skin and go to da bolliks .

jaymla627

Timmaay wrote: »

How much is a lely brand new, 120k?, take a young farmer getting into milking, 60% of 80k is 48k, that stands the robot at 72k. Considering it could milk about 90 xbreds, it wouldnt be the worst of economics, assuming the service charge isn't that high, I've heard anything from 3k to 6k/yr?

Then again, like in the post above, lash in an 18unit barebones for the likes of 30k after grant, and spend 90min max/day milking OAD.

One of the farms in question got into cows the same year I did put in a 14 unit here bare-bones second-hand parlour and second-hand bulk tank for 23k installed, building and concrete for parlour and pit built for a 20 unit came to another 30k, other place went with a robot another one was tagged on last year and theirs another one going in next year....
Can tag on another 6 units here for 15k and will easily run through 140 plus cows comfortable, my net spend will be 80 k compare this to 3 robots and their associated running costs like above and put in milk at low 20's I know what way I'd rather be milking cows, in my view things are simple to volatile at the minute and margins to thin to non-existent like this year to even contemplate going the robot route....
Before lads start harping on about increased yield with robots and all that crap will be in top 2% for milk solids delivered here this year on co-op report

yewtree

mf240 wrote: »

Certain land will carry a zerograzer when it won't carry cows. Have some bog here and it's only the skin that's keeping the cows up. Often seen some of it poached in shyte and you'd still be able to spread slurry on it and do no harm. Have to have the drinkers out on the lane and leave the gaps open as any kind of congregating of cows and they break the skin and go to da bolliks .

That's not what I have heard from lads using them. A lad in our DG made it clear when we were on his farm that when it's too wet to graze it's too wet to zero graze.

Signpost

mahoney_j wrote: »

If land can carry a z grazer it can carry a cow,guy not too far from me sank huge money into big fook off shed ,seperator for slurry ,flush system with 2 robots initially then plan to add 2 'more .all cows housed year round ,grass z grazed in .extra 2 robots never went in and first 2 didn't last 2 years

Assuming your still in North Tipp, you literally couldn't imagine what poor land is like. I'm in an area with the highest rain fall in Ireland an iron pan mostly around 1000 foot above sea level and have a black element to my soil. From experience I can def take floatation tyres across land when cows would absolutely wreck a place. Might have to keep a type up on fresh grass etc but would travel. The IGA tour would have been on one of the better farms in my area this year and lads from good land were quite open in saying there is no way they would even attempt the work involved in proper poor land.

jack o shea

How are lads even listening to salesmen talking ****e about robots and zero grazers, milk the cows properly and out to grass where they should be, on heavy ish land here if cows are out from patricks day til 1 November I'm happy.

Signpost

jack o shea wrote: »

How are lads even listening to salesmen talking ****e about robots and zero grazers, milk the cows properly and out to grass where they should be, on heavy ish land here if cows are out from patricks day til 1 November I'm happy.

As am I, but what if by changing to a different system we could get grass into the diet for February & November too? Not listening to sales men, just wondering is this the way we should be looking. I imagine back when lads stopped milking cows by hand there was discussions about was it right or not, based on the success of that I'd rather be on trend than lagging behind!

Mooooo

Unless it's a land block cows can't walk too zero grazers are just an extra cost. have heavy ground here and a tractor with flotation tyres would leave tracks thru it if wasn't grazable. Neighbour has a few blocks taken bounding some of our ground and re seeded and drained part of it to zero graze and made 2 trips into it and ended up fencing it off and lightly stocked it with a couple of beef animals, too wet for the machine. now if it's dry ground that cows can't walk to then zero grazers have there place

visatorro

Timmaay wrote: »

How much is a lely brand new, 120k?, take a young farmer getting into milking, 60% of 80k is 48k, that stands the robot at 72k. Considering it could milk about 90 xbreds, it wouldnt be the worst of economics, assuming the service charge isn't that high, I've heard anything from 3k to 6k/yr?

Then again, like in the post above, lash in an 18unit barebones for the likes of 30k after grant, and spend 90min max/day milking OAD.

Would I go broke waiting for cows to adapt to OAD? I wonder what % of cows fail to adapt to oad. I remember reading something that a lad and his daughter were doing it and it took four years for everything to come right. Do you write off four years to get things right?
Robots, rightly or wrongly are growing in popularity and in a couple of years there will be more answers. OAD doesn't seem to be as common. Where will the answers come from?

jack o shea

Are robots that common tho? I honestly don't know one person that has one or who would even consider that nonsense..

jack o shea

Vist, iv went Oad since last wkend they have dropped back a fair bit,I know it's the end of year and all but still.

visatorro

Cows will drop that's inevitable.
Good few robots around me.

kowtow

visatorro wrote:

Would I go broke waiting for cows to adapt to OAD? I wonder what % of cows fail to adapt to oad. I remember reading something that a lad and his daughter were doing it and it took four years for everything to come right. Do you write off four years to get things right? Robots, rightly or wrongly are growing in popularity and in a couple of years there will be more answers. OAD doesn't seem to be as common. Where will the answers come from?

We've been once a day this year and have to say there was no problem transitioning.

Heifers look a bit weak in their first year but I have well fed 3rd calvers doing 15-20 litres still. Scc 161 and would be much lower if it wasn't for one culprit.

I'm going back to twice next year partly because I like the rhythm and partly because I want to see what the girls can do with all the stops pulled out.. and I suppose if I'm honest because I just reckon a cow likes to be milked twice ..

Bear in mind my results are skewed by a small herd but if you pay attention to detail I reckon it could be a very interesting system, potentially even spread across two farms although you'd need to look hard at ROI for the land.

Like many things in dairy from ACRs to robots and ZG I reckon success depends on why you do it, rather than whether you do it. If you think milking is a chore to be rushed or minimised for as many cows as you can stuff in then I'm not sure you're in the right game in the first place.... on the other hand if you see these things as one way to free time for stuff you have been dying to do anyway to increase quality, production, grass then you could be on the right track.