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ASTI OctNov Action Post 1 for usual plea for restraint Especially New Posters

deiseindublin

I'm not ASTI (more's the pity) so haven't been talking to anybody in ASTI staffrooms.

What's the general feeling on the ground? What way will the vote go?

Just going to tweek this thread a bit as things have moved on since the ballot result.

As usual, keep it civil.

Address the points made (rather than the poster).

Avoid such terms as
"What planet are you on"
"Are you for real"

Any New posters to the forum should be reminded to read the charter.
'Three months holidays' 'only working 22hrs' 'performance related pay' are old, typically uninformed and very very tired. It Invariably ends up in derailing a thread and annoying folk too... but feel free to start a new thread. This type of stuff will be deleted.
As usual do not respond if you are a regular poster. Just report it as off topic and leave the rest to us (when we get around to it). Thanks.

MOD

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2011abc

ASTI will have to fight hard not to continue to be treated as pushovers by govt .Traditionally 'female' jobs like teaching will always tend to be undervalued .I think we have the two right men at the helm at last .

deiseindublin

I really don't like it when the LPT issue is twinned with gender pay issues. It's an LPT pay issue - male or female. So be it if it turns out that there's an imbalance between male/female numbers of LPTs.

Inspector Coptoor

deiseindublin wrote: »

I really don't like it when the LPT issue is twinned with gender pay issues. It's an LPT pay issue - male or female. So be it if it turns out that there's an imbalance between male/female numbers of LPTs.

There's a huge gender imbalance in the job full stop.
Especially at primary level.

Will be interesting to see what the Gardai do on Friday when the commissioner "orders" them all to be at work on Friday.

tayto lover

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

There's a huge gender imbalance in the job full stop.
Especially at primary level.

Will be interesting to see what the Gardai do on Friday when the commissioner "orders" them all to be at work on Friday.

If the Commissioner does order them to work then it's final nail in her coffin and in the role of the "Garda" Commissioner. She is more a "Government Commissioner" anyway, appointed by them to control the garda force. Should always have been an independent appointee. She will have abused her role and diminished any lingering respect that remained in the garda force for her.

MrJones1973

While I support the cops I'm not sure an extended strike is positive over all. It's a poor service with them working in terms of low man power and technology. Vulnerable people out there

km79

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1101/828226-garda-strike-talks/

Guards off to the LRC tomorrow
There will be no movement with us before those talks conclude

judeboy101

km79 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1101/828226-garda-strike-talks/

Guards off to the LRC tomorrow
There will be no movement with us before those talks conclude

If the have accepted LC invite there will be no strike Friday as any proposal must be put to membership and all strikes suspended pending outcome.meanwhile ill turn up to work monday to find the gates locked.

feardeas

km79 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1101/828226-garda-strike-talks/

Guards off to the LRC tomorrow
There will be no movement with us before those talks conclude

The guards are, in my view, a unique case. They wear the the uniform of the state and must obey orders from the Commissioner. That office holder has a duty to seek to ensure that the state can be policed. They are, uniquely enough for police forces, in charge of the security of the state. In all honesty it is virtually impossible to imagine a situation where all but a small minority of them would down tools. It could be read as an invitation for all sorts of trouble. I was in school when the Blue Flu happened and it did a lot of harm. I also think that the reputation of the force given all that has happened re Donegal, McCabe etc. etc. would take a further unmerciful battering.

However given the unique position they have and the what has to be the sheer awfulness of some of what they have to face I think that their pay and conditions must be improved.

As for us, well, surely the Dept of Education can talk and there has to be enough in Public Expenditure to deal with both issues. Less than a week until a virtual lockout and being taken off payroll.

km79

judeboy101 wrote: »

If the have accepted LC invite there will be no strike Friday as any proposal must be put to membership and all strikes suspended pending outcome.meanwhile ill turn up to work monday to find the gates locked.

In the article it says talks are to try and avert strike
So it's implied that attendance alone will not be enough for strikes to be postponed

judeboy101

While not bound by a LC decision parties are usually bound to put it to membership. That wont be done by Friday (unless gra walk out of LC b4 decision, which would severely weaken their position as they keep crying about not having access to wrc and LC in first place).

2011abc

tayto lover wrote: »

If the Commissioner does order them to work then it's final nail in her coffin and in the role of the "Garda" Commissioner. She is more a "Government Commissioner" anyway, appointed by them to control the garda force. Should always have been an independent appointee. She will have abused her role and diminished any lingering respect that remained in the garda force for her.

Her husband was in charge of the case against the Jobstown protestors who 'imprisoned' (Ha!) Moan Burton .Zero credibility .

MacGyver007

ASTI has posted an information notice regarding next Monday.

http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/information-notice-asti-members-withdrawal-from-supervision-substitution/

judeboy101

MacGyver007 wrote: »

ASTI has posted an information notice regarding next Monday.

http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/information-notice-asti-members-withdrawal-from-supervision-substitution/

Why are they not organising a protest for later that day outside dail? Considering the number of teachers that will turn up to work only to be licked out it should be easy to get them on buses to Dublin for the day.

tayto lover

judeboy101 wrote: »

Why are they not organising a protest for later that day outside dail? Considering the number of teachers that will turn up to work only to be licked out it should be easy to get them on buses to Dublin for the day.

They should organise any protests for days the garda are on strike.
Put it up them.

theoldbreed

Have the ASTI released a statement with the legal advice they were seeking last week? Why so long? My school is closed on Monday, the BOM could have found cover but weren't ar$ed. I won't be paid even though I will turn up for work. I would like some guidance from them in relation to this.

km79

no news at all today from meeting?????

mirrorwall14

Statement from the DES saying there will be indefinite closures on Monday according to the radio

deiseindublin

Nothing on DES site.

feardeas

km79 wrote: »

no news at all today from meeting?????

Could be read as a sign that progress has been made. Given that junior cycle was on the table again would also suggest the same. Have to say I'd welcome a resolution. Not sure what it will be.

In my mind it has to go to ballot with a strong recommendation for acceptance assuming one that is palatable is reached. If they come away with a deal that they cant get the SC or CEC to recommend acceptance on then I think a lot of the minority that voted against the action and indeed some that voted in favour will be minded to think about membership. Particularly if the principle of pay equality is accepted by the government and that a reasonable pathway and time frame is put in place.

If a recommendation to accept is rejected by membership then I think that many would seriously leaving, myself included.

judeboy101

I've heard from a few friends in schools where the bom has closed the school from Monday only to open it again in evening time because facilities are used for training and evening classes. Anyone else think that's weird?

Inspector Coptoor

Our school is mostly ASTI.
We are closed to students on Monday but open to teachers as a place of work.

I cannot wrap my head around HOW any BOM can lock out their teachers on the "advice" of the JMB.

Reeks of weak BOMs.

km79

feardeas wrote: »

Could be read as a sign that progress has been made. Given that junior cycle was on the table again would also suggest the same. Have to say I'd welcome a resolution. Not sure what it will be.

In my mind it has to go to ballot with a strong recommendation for acceptance assuming one that is palatable is reached. If they come away with a deal that they cant get the SC or CEC to recommend acceptance on then I think a lot of the minority that voted against the action and indeed some that voted in favour will be minded to think about membership. Particularly if the principle of pay equality is accepted by the government and that a reasonable pathway and time frame is put in place.

If a recommendation to accept is rejected by membership then I think that many would seriously leaving, myself included.

Any deal that is offered with a recommendation to be accepted will be overwhelmingly accepted IMO
People are now very worried about losing weeks pay etc etc
They want it over and have now said to hell with the long term gains they don't want this short term pain!
And I think this will happen
CP hours and s and s for a pittance forever !

judeboy101

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Our school is mostly ASTI.
We are closed to students on Monday but open to teachers as a place of work.

I cannot wrap my head around HOW any BOM can lock out their teachers on the "advice" of the JMB.

Reeks of weak BOMs.

Most bom members only go to jmb or other management body training so they are well indoctrinated. They are allergic to the words health &safety.

Eintrachtrob

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Our school is mostly ASTI.
We are closed to students on Monday but open to teachers as a place of work.

Same here but will we get paid?

DES says we won't.

Inspector Coptoor

Eintrachtrob wrote: »

Same here but will we get paid?

DES says we won't.

At the moment I doubt we will be paid.

I think it's important we all go in on Monday without students, get through the 2nd strike day and maybe bring in exam years on the Wed.

evolving_doors

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Our school is mostly ASTI.
We are closed to students on Monday but open to teachers as a place of work.

I cannot wrap my head around HOW any BOM can lock out their teachers on the "advice" of the JMB.

Reeks of weak BOMs.

Can anyone confirm or deny if the JMB advised members to leave the ASTI?

km79

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Can anyone confirm or deny if the JMB advised members to leave the ASTI?

What difference would that make ?
Nobody in an Asti school will get paid if the doirs are locked right ?
Asti members will sign attendance form take photos etc
What will non union members do?

Eintrachtrob

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

At the moment I doubt we will be paid.

I think it's important we all go in on Monday without students, get through the 2nd strike day and maybe bring in exam years on the Wed.

Then why turn up?

In case we might be paid?

That's ridiculous.

Inspector Coptoor

Eintrachtrob wrote: »

Then why turn up?

In case we might be paid?

That's ridiculous.

With the expectation to be paid.
Even if there are no students in the building, there is work I can be doing so I will do it.

Eintrachtrob

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

With the expectation to be paid.
Even if there are no students in the building, there is work I can be doing so I will do it.

But isn't the expectation that we won't be paid?