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The Sub 3 Support Thread

--amadeus--

Not sure if this is a viable thread or not....

There tends to be a lot of support for newbies and improver's (the two mentored DCM threads, the Tri Novice thread for example) but less of a community vibe as you move up the pace. I know a lot of us read each others logs but I'll read 10 for every one I comment in and I'm sure others are the same.

And I know that there are a few of us aiming at sub 3 this autumn. I'm taking a crack at it in Amsterdam, Village Runner and Peckham in Berlin, SunGod in Dublin. I'm sure SloggerJogger is going to take another pop at it as well having come so close. And of course we have a lot of runners who have already gone sub 3 (and faster). And the Sub 3 thread on RunnersWorld is very busy and popular.

So here we go - if it works it works, if it sinks it sinks!

And to start - I'm a little concerned about my weekly mileage. This week is pretty poor (I'll be lucky to get mid 30s) and I've been doing 40s for the last couple of weeks with the intention of doing 6 - 8 weeks of 50 - 60 mpw as teh basis of my attempt.

Do you think that's enough? What sort of mileage are you all doing and planning?

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paddybarry

paddybarry wrote: »

Looking for some advice. Ran Dublin half in 1.23.xx. Picked up a quad strain on Thursday after race. Ran a total of 49 miles that week. Last week only managed just under 25 miles. This included a visit to physio with another session booked for this Wednesday. Quad feeling better but no where near 100%, it was a strain to my VMO.

Since beginning of July, I managed to average about 60 miles. Long runs over this period were 17, 17, 17, 17, 16, 16, 16, 19, 20, 20, 20. Last long run was day of half marathon which was about 16. At least every 2 weeks I would do a midweek session of 10 at PMP aswell. Probably done about 6-7 of these.

Was really hoping to get a couple of 20+ runs in over past two weeks but injury put paid to that. Thinking of doing either easy 20 mile run next weekend or 20 miles incorporating 54321 at PMP. If I came through this was going to do easy 18, week before race.

I'm concerned that lack of 20+ runs will catch me out, and am thinking of playing catchup over next two weeks (injury permitting) with a one week taper.

I'm very open to council on this plan.
PB

Quad still nagging me. From reading online, I would be best advised not to try and play catch up over the next two weeks (as intended).

Better course of action would be to do 18 miles easy next weekend and 16 miles easy weekend after?

Looking for a bit of reassurance that training ive done so far will be enough to get me through.

My failure to get two 22/23 mile runs the last two weekends is playing on my mind.

ger664

paddybarry wrote: »

Quad still nagging me. From reading online, I would be best advised not to try and play catch up over the next two weeks (as intended).

Better course of action would be to do 18 miles easy next weekend and 16 miles easy weekend after?

Looking for a bit of reassurance that training ive done so far will be enough to get me through.

My failure to get two 22/23 mile runs the last two weekends is playing on my mind.

Best not do anything until the quad settles down.

Whats your Physio's advice here ?

Not much to be gained from doing 18 or 16 miles on an recovering strain. A lot to be lost, if you aggravate it over the next two weeks then its curtains for your race.

paddybarry

ger664 wrote: »

Best not do anything until the quad settles down.

Whats your Physio's advice here ?

Not much to be gained from doing 18 or 16 miles on an recovering strain. A lot to be lost, if you aggravate it over the next two weeks then its curtains for your race.

Was told I was ok to do easy running with a cap of 10 miles. To be honest i'm thinking of knocking the marathon on its head.

mylesforsmiles

Not long to go now folks. Hope all the training pays off on the day. Trying to taper smartly without losing that MP sharpness. How long are you running tomorrow? I'm thinking of 18m with 10 to 12 at MP.

ger664

mylesforsmiles wrote: »

Not long to go now folks. Hope all the training pays off on the day. Trying to taper smartly without losing that MP sharpness. How long are you running tomorrow? I'm thinking of 18m with 10 to 12 at MP.

Taper madness you wont lose your MP fitness , no need to check it tomorrow. Nice easy slow run will do leave the MP miles in the bank for the day when you need them.

dublin runner

mylesforsmiles wrote:

Not long to go now folks. Hope all the training pays off on the day. Trying to taper smartly without losing that MP sharpness. How long are you running tomorrow? I'm thinking of 18m with 10 to 12 at MP.

12 does seem like overkill with two weeks to go. I would bring it right back to 6-8 personally. Going briefly above MP, for example, 5-7x(1200 @MP, 400m @LT) is a great way to stay sharp, without doing a very tiring 12 at planned marathon pace.

echancrure

mylesforsmiles wrote: »

Not long to go now folks. Hope all the training pays off on the day. Trying to taper smartly without losing that MP sharpness. How long are you running tomorrow? I'm thinking of 18m with 10 to 12 at MP.

When I read stuff like this with 2 weeks to go I really do wonder what people call MP. Either your target MP is very conservative or you are not tapering properly.

I am following P&D up to 70m and I cannot remember hitting my target MP since many weeks (not even at Dublin Half 3 weeks ago). My PB is 2h59' and I am aiming way below that this year and training hard for it; so of course I can run a 6:50 per mile no problems, but I am way too tired with two weeks to go to run at my MP!

If you can run at your MP this week for 10m (goodness!) then you are probably too conservative: have an LSR instead, lower your target MP and taper properly.

paddybarry

got 18miles done today at an average of 7.10 m/m. Ran 14 of these at PMP +10-15secs. Leg held up so all good.

echancrure

Bahanaman did you get my private message?

ploughon

Had a crack at sub 3 over the weekend, in Amsterdam...
Went with 3 hour pacers, we lost nearly a minute in the first mile with congestion, then the pacers threw in two 6.30 something miles to get back on track!
I let them off after that and ran at my own pace.
Managed to pul back a few seconds per mile, but the day heated up and by mile 17 it was all aboard the hurt train...moving slower than it needed to, water in cups to add to the dehydrated misery
Finished 3.08.....back to the drawing board for me

Duanington

ploughon wrote: »

Had a crack at sub 3 over the weekend, in Amsterdam...
Went with 3 hour pacers, we lost nearly a minute in the first mile with congestion, then the pacers threw in two 6.30 something miles to get back on track!
I let them off after that and ran at my own pace.
Managed to pul back a few seconds per mile, but the day heated up and by mile 17 it was all aboard the hurt train...moving slower than it needed to, water in cups to add to the dehydrated misery
Finished 3.08.....back to the drawing board for me

Anything obvious that you'd change with training\race Ploughon? - might be a bit soon to have clear idea on that though

rooneyjm

ploughon wrote: »

Had a crack at sub 3 over the weekend, in Amsterdam...
Went with 3 hour pacers, we lost nearly a minute in the first mile with congestion, then the pacers threw in two 6.30 something miles to get back on track!
I let them off after that and ran at my own pace.
Managed to pul back a few seconds per mile, but the day heated up and by mile 17 it was all aboard the hurt train...moving slower than it needed to, water in cups to add to the dehydrated misery
Finished 3.08.....back to the drawing board for me

Congestion at the start seems to be a common theme with the bigger marathons. NY last year was a complete disaster with people holding selfie sticks in wave 1A and 1B (muppets). Maybe a smaller marathon or get ahead of the 3 hr guys at the start? Keep her lit.

ploughon

Duanington wrote: »

Anything obvious that you'd change with training\race Ploughon? - might be a bit soon to have clear idea on that though

Good question Duaninton...

On the training, I followed P+D 55-70 (for the second time), I ran the 14miles at MP a few weeks out, on a hilly course on a windy morning, so I thought I was in the ball park. I will have to either up the intensity or the volume (or maybe a little of both) for the next cycle, and I'm thinking of maybe going to the gym over the winter, something I've never done before, to strengthen up the legs a bit. Not sure, any suggestions on training more than welcome?

On the race lessons, I'll share a few that come to mind for me ( I had a great conversation with a friend yesterday who asked me the same question)::)

1. Run you own race. I wouldn't go with pacers again. Not blaming them and pacers work for some, but even apart from erratic pace in early miles, I found it a stress in itself to try to stick with them, next time I would do my own thing.
2. OK to be a little selfish on Race Day. I was in the 2.40-3.00 pin, and the 3 hour pacers started at the back of that pin, where you would expect them to. But straight away it was clear that a LOT of people in front of us were really 3;30ish runners, who had given themselves the advantage of moving up closer to the front so as not to get held up, and then we had to zig zag around them. Next time I'd be pushing to the front of the (fastest) pin I could get into and give myself that advantage.
3. Race Line Check. I stood at the start line in my shorts and vest, having already threw away my hat, and I wasn't at all cold. That should have been a signal to me that the day was/would be warm and I needed to run conservatively , especially in the early miles. So next time, my race will stat by being a little more alert in the minutes before the gun goes.
4. Biggest lesson / positive from the day was, Don't be afraid of Failure.
You have to give it a lash to discover if you can do it. I think when you are pushing up against a limit, the only way to test yourself is to commit to giving it 100% effort, and if it doesn't work out (which it didn't), no regrets, lessons learned and on another day it might go your way.
I'm only a little disappointed that I missed my target, I'm honestly more pleased with myself (than disappointed) for giving it my all on the day.
My target was 2.59.??, my goal was to give my all to get there on the day!

Hope some of that makes sense?

ThebitterLemon

Well done Ploughon, eerily similar to my time and experience from Amsterdam 2014.

Plough on!

TbL

Duanington

Great answers Ploughon - thanks for sharing and well done!

paddybarry

14 very easy miles for me today. Was originally going to do 16, but a couple of miles either way is not going to make much difference at this stage. Plan to do approximately 30 easy miles this week and freshen the legs up. Definitely feeling the effects of this cycle of training.

Hard to know what pace to target. I'm nowhere near the shape I was in a couple of years ago, but feel that smarter pacing this time round will partly offset this.

davedanon

paddybarry wrote: »

14 very easy miles for me today. Was originally going to do 16, but a couple of miles either way is not going to make much difference at this stage. Plan to do approximately 30 easy miles this week and freshen the legs up. Definitely feeling the effects of this cycle of training.

Hard to know what pace to target. I'm nowhere near the shape I was in a couple of years ago, but feel that smarter pacing this time round will partly offset this.

Best of luck, paddy.

tang1

davedanon wrote: »

Best of luck, paddy.

+1 to that, hope it goes to plan for you.

ploughon

Best of Luck to anyone who's going for a sub 3 in Dublin on Sunday.

tomwaits48

ploughon wrote: »

Best of Luck to anyone who's going for a sub 3 in Dublin on Sunday.

Looks like it will be very humid...

echancrure

I can't stop eating yesterday and today! Better wise up tomorrow before the big one on Sunday...

Bahanaman

echancrure wrote: »

I can't stop eating yesterday and today! Better wise up tomorrow before the big one on Sunday...

No harm in that echancrure! It'll only stand to you!

Ososlo

paddybarry wrote: »

14 very easy miles for me today. Was originally going to do 16, but a couple of miles either way is not going to make much difference at this stage. Plan to do approximately 30 easy miles this week and freshen the legs up. Definitely feeling the effects of this cycle of training.

Hard to know what pace to target. I'm nowhere near the shape I was in a couple of years ago, but feel that smarter pacing this time round will partly offset this.

Best of luck tomorrow, Paddy! And to everyone else on this thread going for the sub 3 tomorrow! It's looking like conditions will be good!!!

Krusty_Clown

tomwaits48 wrote: »

Looks like it will be very humid...

I think the word you're looking for is 'perfect'. 7'C, rising to 13'C, with a light breeze of 1m/s - 2m/s, and zero rain.

At times like this, it's almost reassuring to try to find reasons not to succeed; reasons to be negative. Don't. The right frame of mind for most, is 'I've done the training, I've made it to the start line. Success is not guaranteed tomorrow, but I've earned the right to give it a bloody good try. I know it's going to get hard and there will be moments when I question myself, question whether I'm the kind of person who is a sub-3 runner. The answer is... I am. I may not do it tomorrow, but I am going to give it the best f***ing try that I can'.

Good luck all!

El Caballo

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I think the word you're looking for is 'perfect'. 7'C, rising to 13'C, with a light breeze of 1m/s - 2m/s, and zero rain.

At times like this, it's almost reassuring to try to find reasons not to succeed; reasons to be negative. Don't. The right frame of mind for most, is 'I've done the training, I've made it to the start line. Success is not guaranteed tomorrow, but I've earned the right to give it a bloody good try. I know it's going to get hard and there will be moments when I question myself, question whether I'm the kind of person who is a sub-3 runner. The answer is... I am. I may not do it tomorrow, but I am going to give it the best f***ing try that I can'.

Good luck all!

You'd make a master coach KC! Sage words.

Itziger

A little late, but good luck to one and all going for the old 179 minutes today.

I'll take my sorry ass out for a short spin to see how this week's injury is coming along. Tight glute so pun was intended.

djemba djemba

Boom 2.57.58 today. Was a lurker more than a contributor, but thanks for all the help. No words can explain that feeling crossing the line

chickey2

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I think the word you're looking for is 'perfect'. 7'C, rising to 13'C, with a light breeze of 1m/s - 2m/s, and zero rain.

At times like this, it's almost reassuring to try to find reasons not to succeed; reasons to be negative. Don't. The right frame of mind for most, is 'I've done the training, I've made it to the start line. Success is not guaranteed tomorrow, but I've earned the right to give it a bloody good try. I know it's going to get hard and there will be moments when I question myself, question whether I'm the kind of person who is a sub-3 runner. The answer is... I am. I may not do it tomorrow, but I am going to give it the best f***ing try that I can'.

Good luck all!

I'm nowhere near a sub 3 runner, more like a sub 4, but I got that sub 4 today thinking about this post (among other things!) so thank you!

pats22b

2:53:32 for me today.. delighted

Sandwell

Landed the sub 3 today and as I said on the event thread, much of the credit goes to Boards and specifically this thread. Pfitzinger deserves a shout out too. I'll post a report on my sorely neglected log over the next week or so.