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ASTI OctNov Action Post 1 for usual plea for restraint Especially New Posters

deiseindublin

I'm not ASTI (more's the pity) so haven't been talking to anybody in ASTI staffrooms.

What's the general feeling on the ground? What way will the vote go?

Just going to tweek this thread a bit as things have moved on since the ballot result.

As usual, keep it civil.

Address the points made (rather than the poster).

Avoid such terms as
"What planet are you on"
"Are you for real"

Any New posters to the forum should be reminded to read the charter.
'Three months holidays' 'only working 22hrs' 'performance related pay' are old, typically uninformed and very very tired. It Invariably ends up in derailing a thread and annoying folk too... but feel free to start a new thread. This type of stuff will be deleted.
As usual do not respond if you are a regular poster. Just report it as off topic and leave the rest to us (when we get around to it). Thanks.

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JellieBabie

I received a text this morning from the office in school asking for teachers who wish to be available for the full range of duties post November 6th to sign a form.

Please don't sign this form. I know it is really tough to face possibilities that we won't be paid. But think of the LPTs who go to work and EVERYDAY for the rest of their careers they will earn less - unless we stand firm.

The government ploy here is to divide and conquer through fear. It is a desperate move that shows their hand. And it is a move I think is probably illegal.

Stay strong and show that we will not be bullied.

coillsaille

Anyone hear if many BOMs are allowing staff into school on Nov 7th?

political analyst

km79 wrote: »

Indeed if you believe today's papers .......
Guards new deal includes cutting back by one hour a week
Wouldn't that be their croke park hours gone ..........?
Nurses to get 3 weeks of talks in November . If no deal they are taking a COURT CASE in feb .
Meanwhile we are currently seeking legal advice ......10 days before we will not get paid indefinitely
What's our unions plan ???? They need to have a solid plan relayed to us by tomorrow

What evidence is there that the Garda staff associations have received such an offer?

political analyst

acequion wrote: »

r

If they go flexible I think they need to go VERY flexible and basically credit teachers for planning,extra tuition,extra curricular,CPD,whatever the teacher wants,whatever the teacher would do anyway. But we know they won't allow that, they want to proscribe,therefore if that's the case I'd prefer to sit in a room with a guest speaker and discreetly mark my work.

Other public servants are not complaining as much about their extra hours because they're basically just doing more of their jobs and let's face it,no job is as intense as teaching,hence the reason they fill our extra hours with other stuff. Truth be told I'd actually rather do an extra 40 mins a week teaching than be made to do some CPD I don't want to do.

Then what would teachers who don't do extra-curricular activities do in those hours?

MrJones1973

There will be a fudge on Croke Park hours that allows for flexibility on those hours outside of PTMs and Staff meetings. I would bet anything on that

There will be a timetable of sorts that will see a better deal for New entrants even though a few have not joined union in our school which is pure ASTI.

Regarding Media-switch it off. Its not relevant. After a week of closures you will lose the public anyway.
Legal advice on s and s to arrive soon.
But even if its ambiguous we must continue with conflict Nov 7th-if we back off it plays into Gov hands and gives impression that ASTI making it up as they go along.

Pursefan

I teach in a voluntary secondary school who employ a number of non teaching staff to supervise at lunchtime. We would be able to employ them during the day to cover the SnS rots but our principal will not even consider it at BOM level. The JMB want to close the schools so to force the two sides together.

doc_17

When Bruton says some sectors are doing 100 Croke Park hours does anyone know what sector he could possibly be talking about?

Fian

doc_17 wrote: »

When Bruton says some sectors are doing 100 Croke Park hours does anyone know what sector he could possibly be talking about?

Well, almost every sector.

Well for example civil service working day increased by 30 minutes per day (start moved back 15 minutes earlier, finish at 5:45 rather than 5:30. Regardless that is 2 hours 30 per week over a 46 working week year = 115 Croke park hours per annum. that 46 working weeks is for more senior staff, most starting staff work 47 weeks (this was also the case before financial crisis).

That calculation doesn't account for bank holidays etc. but at 30 minutes for each of those it would not come anywhere near knocking 15 hours off the total.

Icemancometh

acequion wrote: »

r

If they go flexible I think they need to go VERY flexible and basically credit teachers for planning,extra tuition,extra curricular,CPD,whatever the teacher wants,whatever the teacher would do anyway. But we know they won't allow that, they want to proscribe,therefore if that's the case I'd prefer to sit in a room with a guest speaker and discreetly mark my work.

Other public servants are not complaining as much about their extra hours because they're basically just doing more of their jobs and let's face it,no job is as intense as teaching,hence the reason they fill our extra hours with other stuff. Truth be told I'd actually rather do an extra 40 mins a week teaching than be made to do some CPD I don't want to do.

Do you really believe no job is as intense as teaching?

judeboy101

coillsaille wrote: »

Anyone hear if many BOMs are allowing staff into school on Nov 7th?

3 opening to teachers only. 522 closing

maude6868

judeboy101 wrote: »

3 opening to teachers only. 522 closing

I was given a letter coming home which explains the decision to keep the school closed on Nov 7th and states that all keyholders are directed not to open the doors unless authorised to do so. There you have it, locked out even though I have never done s&s and I'm still paying the opt-out money.

deiseindublin

maude6868 wrote: »

There you have it, locked out even though I have never done s&s and I'm still paying the opt-out money.

I'm kind of glad they've said no pay for all ASTI maude because it's so farcical, it just can't add up legally.

Imagine docking a days pay for not doing something you took a pay cut to not do.

dory

Our school sent teachers a 'helpful' text reminder than those forms are printed and ready to be collected in the office, making it easier for people to cross the picket line and get paid on Nov 7th. If enough do this the gov will have a fair bit of ammo to attack us with.

acequion

Icemancometh wrote: »

Do you really believe no job is as intense as teaching?

So ok you tell me what other jobs are as intense as teaching?

deiseindublin

That'd be my fear. I'd wonder if some members will fold and sign before while waiting for the legal clarification.

km79

Thought we might have news by now

km79

political analyst wrote: »

What evidence is there that the Garda staff associations have received such an offer?

The quote started with
"Indeed if you believe today's papers "

judeboy101

dory wrote: »

Our school sent teachers a 'helpful' text reminder than those forms are printed and ready to be collected in the office, making it easier for people to cross the picket line and get paid on Nov 7th. If enough do this the gov will have a fair bit of ammo to attack us with.

Hows does it work if you are only a few Asti in a big tui school, can you just turn up sit in your class and teach but not get paid, or can you turn up and give every class you teach an xbox party day?

ccazza

We're open the 7th. Have enough external staff already vetted to be able to remain open.

Millem

judeboy101 wrote: »

Hows does it work if you are only a few Asti in a big tui school, can you just turn up sit in your class and teach but not get paid, or can you turn up and give every class you teach an xbox party day?

We got an email, asti will get paid in our school whether the do s and s or not. We have enough cover with Tui.

evolving_doors

Pursefan wrote: »

I teach in a voluntary secondary school who employ a number of non teaching staff to supervise at lunchtime. We would be able to employ them during the day to cover the SnS rots but our principal will not even consider it at BOM level. The JMB want to close the schools so to force the two sides together.

Any truth in the this... JMB are advising principals and vice to leave the ASTI union so they can carry out depts. wishes?

I've heard from only 2 schools that I know that this is the case. (principals have informed the reps that this is the case).

political analyst

To prevent indefinite closure of schools the choice for the ASTI seems to be:

Do S&S unpaid or do the CP hours. The former is the lesser evil.

judeboy101

Please no more balls talk, I'm having pizza

smallgarden

Todays clarification, if school stays open asti will be paid whether they do s&s or not, only not paid if school has to close. Our bom made no effort whatsoever to find cover so are closing school on the 7th.There are 4 pme garda vetted teachers who are not ASTI who could easily do s&s and would be glad of the extra money

judeboy101

smallgarden wrote: »

Todays clarification, if school stays open asti will be paid whether they do s&s or not, only not paid if school has to close. Our bom made no effort whatsoever to find cover so are closing school on the 7th.There are 4 pme garda vetted teachers who are not ASTI who could easily do s&s and would be glad of the extra money

Is 4 enough to cover all your s&s needs? Including potential sick teachers, extra curric etc?

political analyst

judeboy101 wrote: »

That a choice between having your testicles slowly eating by snails or quickly chopped off by a circular saw.

Doing S&S unpaid was accepted as being normal until 2000. I'd say that a teacher's job was like paradise then compared to what it's like now because, back then, there were no pointless meetings.

judeboy101

political analyst wrote: »

Doing S&S unpaid was accepted as being normal until 2000. I'd say that a teacher's job was like paradise then compared to what it's like now because, back then, there were no pointless meetings.

Schools were smaller, discipline was more direct and less jerry the giraffe.:D

Millem

What annoys me is that we so many hours ourselves that can't be used towards Croke park. I wish the gov would just let each of us choose how we do our CP. We were given a blank sheet on it and told to record the s and s classes we covered. Why can't we just be handed another sheet and record CP hours. Like eg a teacher going to subject association conference, after school pdst courses, online courses, extra curricular activities, organising school events, even giving extra classss (which happens a lot in my school) etc etc.
Instead in our school is it meetings or guest speakers that are a waste of time.

smallgarden

judeboy101 wrote: »

Is 4 enough to cover all your s&s needs? Including potential sick teachers, extra curric etc?

We've only a small staff of about twenty so 4 would be plenty. We'd never really have more than 2 teachers absent in a day

coillsaille

Standing committee have finished their meeting with no change in position. They have taken legal advice on the wage docking but are seeking further clarification after Wednesday's circular from DES.