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The Recovery Has Barely Started And Dublin is at breaking point

MilesMorales1

https://lovindublin.com/opinion/the-recovery-has-barely-started-and-dublin-is-already-at-breaking-point

We've all heard stories of the excess that took place in those days, high-fliers pissed on champagne mojitos and jetting off to Bulgarian property expos trying to figure out what to do with all their new found "spare" cash that the banks had given them.

The Government at this time were running a huge budget surplus but this being Ireland, very little of it was used to improve the infrastructure in the city, with the exception of the Luas. Even that was so poorly thought out that today Dublin city centre looks like a war zone as they frantically try and connect the two lines over a decade later.

I'm in City centre every day and I agree very much with the sentiments in this article. The town currently looks awful, traffic is awful with the constant work being down. Nothing has been done about the anti social elements, which while not being as bad as people say is bad enough. It's just grey and dour and depressing and it doesn't feel like much of a recovery, even if it was. And thats to say nothing of the parts of the country that haven't had the recovery.

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SteM

Snakeblood wrote: »

It allows infrastructure, housing and businesses to be developed further afield as they'll have a train system allowing speedy access that isn't reliant on cars.

Sorry, do you mean along the line between Boombridge in Cabra and Brides Glen? Have they already made plans to develop infrastructure and housing along this line or directly off thiis line or is this another 'sure we'll build it and something will happen' type plan?

[Deleted User]

SteM wrote: »

Maybe, but I'm still trying to see that huge benefit it will bring to the city.

It means instead of getting off the Luas at Stephens Green, instead of then getting into a taxi to get to Heuston, I can just change onto the Red Line at Abbey Street. It should reduce 'some' of the congestion in the city centre.

[Deleted User]

SteM wrote: »

Sorry, do you mean along the line between Boombridge in Cabra and Brides Glen? Have they already made plans to develop infrastructure and housing along this line or directly off thiis line or is this another 'sure we'll build it and something will happen' type plan?

Development of 4000 new homes is starting in a few weeks in Cherrywood.

Luas has only been laid down in already developed areas

Loughlinstown Luas stop is surrounded by fields. You can see ponies in a field from Carrickmines Luas stop and there are 2 ghost stops which arent open because there is nothing there just a luas stop and an empty field. Theres lots of space to develop on the line.

Grayson

suicide_circus wrote: »

All this....and they're removing the USC....1/3 of working people already pay NO income tax and the government are getting rid of a progressive catch all revenue stream in order to buy another election.

This at a time when we still have enormous national debt, with the uncertainty of Brexit looming round the corner for which we have no money put aside (much less a plan), with our young people barely able to house themselves, with every single one of our teachers, garda, nurses, public servants looking for money owed while all being paid with borrowed money anyway.

Precarious isn't the word. We lurch from crisis to fiasco. Planning, oversight, strategy, prudence - these are words which have no meaning in an Irish context. We're all happy for successive governments to buy our votes with the crumbs they offer paid for with borrowed money that our children will have to pay back. Each sector of society more than ready to throw their neighbour under the bus for a pittance.

If you want nice things, you have to pay for them. This means EVERY SINLGE person earning a cent has to contribute. The current system whereby everything earned over 33k is taxed at 51% while 1/3 of people pay nothing is stupid beyond belief. The same populist pirates who endorse this cluster*ck of a tax system are the same ones demanding Scandinavian style services and infrastructure. Their cretinism beggars belief.

See, this is the problem. Your solution to a nasty rent crises and increasing costs is to tax poor people more. You mention Scandinavian style services, well they pay more tax. The higher earners especially. You pay no state tax on roughly the first 40k a year. Yet it works because the government there realises that you need a certain amount to survive so they don't tax anyone on that. You get taxed heavily on the surplus.

The fact is that we just went through a massive financial crises and we slashed everything. in 2007-2008 60% of government revenue came from the construction industry. We lost nearly all of that overnight. The FF government had used the money coming from construction to slash the taxes that people paid during the boom. This allowed people to pay even more for houses. For some stupid reason the whole country thought it could get rich by selling houses to itself. This caused a massive bubble of overvalued houses and debt which burst with nasty consequences. So we lost the major revenue stream we had overnight and we had a crappy taxation system to fall back on.

We need to do a few things to remove the immediate strain and that includes freeing up land for development. Insuring that a certain amount of developments go to social housing. Allowing the building of larger higher buildings in Dublin. The government needs to make sure that this growth in construction is contained and sustainable. All of that costs little and actually brings in revenue to the government. Then use that money to improve infrastructure.

lisasimpson

Its not just dublin. Galway traffic is mayhem. As for cork port moving down from the city.as it stands if its frosty or a crash it can take 2hrs to get from carrigaline..the new port out in ringaskiddy uses this road and plans in place for 600+ houses in carrigaline...stll only in discussions to upgrade the rd...prime example of slow inadquate planning
decent boardbrand roll out throughout ireland is needed too...it would allow for more reflexi working for commuters

MeatTwoVeg

Irish electorates don't reward politicians or parties that promise long term strategy's or infrastructural investment.

They elect the politicians that promise them the most sweets at the next budget or whose political philosophy can be scrawled on a placard or shouted through a megaphone.

We have exactly the infrastructure, and politicians we deserve.

Atoms for Peace

Bring back the troika, Enda is on auto pilot maintaining his position as leader of FG is all he cares about.

https://vimeo.com/167864729

ChikiChiki

lisasimpson wrote: »

Its not just dublin. Galway traffic is mayhem. As for cork port moving down from the city.as it stands if its frosty or a crash it can take 2hrs to get from carrigaline..the new port out in ringaskiddy uses this road and plans in place for 600+ houses in carrigaline...stll only in discussions to upgrade the rd...prime example of slow inadquate planning
decent boardbrand roll out throughout ireland is needed too...it would allow for more reflexi working for commuters

I think there should be a push to move rural dwellers living in one off housing miles from civilization further towards the regional cities or main towns. Supplying and maintaining broadband to all corners of the country must cost a fortune.

[Deleted User]

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I think there should be a push to move rural dwellers living in one off housing miles from civilization further towards the regional cities or main towns. Supplying and maintaining broadband to all corners of the country must cost a fortune.

I think this is the worst thought out idea Ive ever read on boards.

MeatTwoVeg

ChikiChiki wrote:

I think there should be a push to move rural dwellers living in one off housing miles from civilization further towards the regional cities or main towns. Supplying and maintaining broadband to all corners of the country must cost a fortune.

Unfortunately it's too late, we've allowed far too much one off developments and these people, thanks to populist Governments, now believe they should have all the infrastructural benefits of living in a large urban center.
Paid for by everyone else of course.

SteM

Deleted User wrote: »

It means instead of getting off the Luas at Stephens Green, instead of then getting into a taxi to get to Heuston, I can just change onto the Red Line at Abbey Street. It should reduce 'some' of the congestion in the city centre.

The taxi would still be driving around the city centre

Deleted User wrote: »

Development of 4000 new homes is starting in a few weeks in Cherrywood.

Loughlinstown Luas stop is surrounded by fields. You can see ponies in a field from Carrickmines Luas stop and there are 2 ghost stops which arent open because there is nothing there just a luas stop and an empty field. Theres lots of space to develop on the line.

But the development in Cherrywood and any potential development near Carrickmines would not be dependent on the BDX line surely? The green line is already serving this area to the city centre. I don't see how laying a cross city track will help or hinder development in Cherrywood or Carrickmines. Will there be a lot of people travelling from the new housing devlopment in Cherrywood to Cabra? I was responding to someone saying this line extension 'allows infrastructure, housing and businesses to be developed further afield as they'll have a train system allowing speedy access that isn't reliant on cars' but development in Cherrywood isn't being done because of the extension.

I live in Tallaght and love going to evening racing in Leopardstown during the summer. No way in hell would I consider getting the Green Line to town and then the Red Line to Tallaght afterwards. I'd prefer not to have a drink and drive home in 20 minutes afterwards.

Atoms for Peace

We don't need Dublin to become mega city one to have a prosperous country, agriculture and pharmaceuticals are our most important industries, accounting for over 80% of exports. Both of which are going fine without being Dublin centric.

The real problem is bad planning caused in no small part by greed and corruption. Dublin needs to build more high density while rural areas need to be weaned off unsustainable one off housing.

ChikiChiki

Deleted User wrote: »

I think this is the worst thought out idea Ive ever read on boards.

Obviously a gradual push of course over time. Its nonsensical and not very cost effective to be maintaining infrastructure to houses located about 500 mtrs apart located from each other and about 25 miles from the nearest urban centre.

Zillah

There is something supremely irrational about complaining about poor infrastructure in Dublin in one breath and then complaining about chaotic road works in another. Weh weh why don't we have better Luas; weh weh why are they doing all this messy work on the Luas?

Also the article in OP does some fierce complaining but I'm not hearing any proposed solutions.

smurgen

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Stick Apple in any town in Ireland and it would have the highest GDP per person.

And apple had to provide alot of their own infrastructure,busses etc because of the lack of public transport.besides it isn't just apple,plenty of mncs in cork.

K.Flyer

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

I'm not a smart man, but why did it take 12 years was it, to link the two Luas lines up?

Because there is no foward thinking in this country.
I remember being shown a plan for the Dublin City Ring Road (M50) back in the early 70s. They took all that time to plan it, to go see how other countries do it, and still went and cocked it up, twice.
Port Tunnel, Luas, Hospitals, Prisons etc etc the list is endless on how they perpetually f&ck things up.
There seems to be a mental block when it comes to certain things, that even after being shown how other countries have successfully dealt with things on schedule and on budget, our powers that be will still go off and do it wrong.
There is no joined up thinking whatsover.
(Pun intended :rolleyes: )

Yurt2

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Stick Apple in any town in Ireland and it would have the highest GDP per person.

And Dublin has a built-in advantage in being the capital. Ballymacbackwards would be successful if you stuck tens of thousands of civil servants, all the gov departments, courts, cultural institutions and everything else that comes with being the seat of government in any given town / city.

Cork hustles and punches far above its weight class. No need to denigrate another successful urban centre.

Ush1

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Stick Apple in any town in Ireland and it would have the highest GDP per person.

Cork has Dell, EMC, Vmware, etc... Many others.

Fratton Fred

Ush1 wrote: »

Cork has Dell, EMC, Vmware, etc... Many others.

isn't it just Dell now?

Fratton Fred

Yurt! wrote: »

And Dublin has a built-in advantage in being the capital. Ballymacbackwards would be successful if you stuck tens of thousands of civil servants, all the gov departments, courts, cultural institutions and everything else that comes with being the seat of government in any given town / city.

Cork hustles and punches far above its weight class. No need to denigrate another successful urban centre.

I'm not denigrating it at all, but using GDP in this country as any sort of indicator has serious flaws, due to the MNCs channeling their profits through here.

Two of the largest companies in the country, in terms of revenue, are based out of a solicitors office on Sir John Rogerson Quay and employ a handful of people.

[Deleted User]

suicide_circus wrote: »

........The current system whereby everything earned over 33k is taxed at 51% while 1/3 of people pay nothing is stupid beyond belief. ........

And a significant amount of that 1/3 are the vociferous complainers re water charges etc etc

Atoms for Peace

Zillah wrote: »

There is something supremely irrational about complaining about poor infrastructure in Dublin in one breath and then complaining about chaotic road works in another. Weh weh why don't we have better Luas; weh weh why are they doing all this messy work on the Luas?

Also the article in OP does some fierce complaining but I'm not hearing any proposed solutions.

Tube technology is our only hope.:)

[Deleted User]

SteM wrote: »

The taxi would still be driving around the city centre

But the development in Cherrywood and any potential development near Carrickmines would not be dependent on the BDX line surely? The green line is already serving this area to the city centre. I don't see how laying a cross city track will help or hinder development in Cherrywood or Carrickmines. Will there be a lot of people travelling from the new housing devlopment in Cherrywood to Cabra? I was responding to someone saying this line extension 'allows infrastructure, housing and businesses to be developed further afield as they'll have a train system allowing speedy access that isn't reliant on cars' but development in Cherrywood isn't being done because of the extension.

I live in Tallaght and love going to evening racing in Leopardstown during the summer. No way in hell would I consider getting the Green Line to town and then the Red Line to Tallaght afterwards. I'd prefer not to have a drink and drive home in 20 minutes afterwards.

Dublin needs a sustainable transport network. Transport routes that don't connect to anything isn't a network. The BXD works connects the green line to the redline, meaning someone in Cherrywood or Carrickmines can easily and reliably get to Heuston, Bus Aras and Connolly. The luas isnt the quickest but its a start.

I sometimes work in Citywest and the best way to get there is Luas to Dundrum, Dublin Coach to the Red Cow and Luas to Citywest. Thats a network. Getting the luas all the way into town, walking 20 minutes and then getting the luas all the way to citywest, total journey time about 20 hours, is not a network.

Atoms for Peace

Ush1 wrote: »

Cork has Dell, EMC, Vmware, etc... Many others.

Go out the road to Ringaskeady and you'll find what is probably the most industrialised area in the country yet is only connected to the city by a totally unsuitable narrow two lane N road.

A Little Pony

It is Dublin, what do you expect? Of course its going to be awful.

Macy0161

Always the Governments fault. Never those that vote for the parties at fault. Get ride of Parish pump politics and politicians. Except my guy, who I know down the road...

If there's a lack of joined up thinking, coherent strategy or future planning, it's ultimately the fault of the electorate. Populism only works because people vote for it!

Long term goals has to be develop other urban centres. Shorter term goals has to be Public Transport in the Dublin Commuter belt, and that means sacrificing other projects and even existing options around the state. But will that be sucked up by those populations and their representatives for the greater good?

But even then, I remain unconvinced - transport is another area (like taxes) where "someone else" should get the bus/ train/ luas/ outer motorway, so I can drive with less hassle...

The flying mouse

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

What do you think would happen to the water that normally flows through these canals?

Where exactly will it go?:D

We could bottlle it and sell it to the Arabs

scamalert

Had a chat with my brother yesterday and spoke how Spain is nice all year long etc.He mentioned while on holidays Spanish barman asked where they were from he mention Ireland,he goes yeah i visited Dublin and then says:

You know the way you come over here for holidays and leave sad when its time to go home,and he goes i was happy escaping that place after 3 days with joy going back home that's how depressing it was.

From tourist perspective there's few places to visit around Ireland,but when it comes to whole Dublin its Grey theme mixed with 80s decor and even new buildings still stick to same theme,its like place is stuck in time,with homeless,junkies and place smelling like pi$$ and $hit on every corner,im sure someone could point many other capitals that are bland but Dublin still would be among them.

suicide_circus

Grayson wrote: »

See, this is the problem. Your solution to a nasty rent crises and increasing costs is to tax poor people more. You mention Scandinavian style services, well they pay more tax. The higher earners especially. You pay no state tax on roughly the first 40k a year. Yet it works because the government there realises that you need a certain amount to survive so they don't tax anyone on that. You get taxed heavily on the surplus.

The fact is that we just went through a massive financial crises and we slashed everything. in 2007-2008 60% of government revenue came from the construction industry. We lost nearly all of that overnight. The FF government had used the money coming from construction to slash the taxes that people paid during the boom. This allowed people to pay even more for houses. For some stupid reason the whole country thought it could get rich by selling houses to itself. This caused a massive bubble of overvalued houses and debt which burst with nasty consequences. So we lost the major revenue stream we had overnight and we had a crappy taxation system to fall back on.

We need to do a few things to remove the immediate strain and that includes freeing up land for development. Insuring that a certain amount of developments go to social housing. Allowing the building of larger higher buildings in Dublin. The government needs to make sure that this growth in construction is contained and sustainable. All of that costs little and actually brings in revenue to the government. Then use that money to improve infrastructure.

Sorry but poor people need to contribute to their society too. However small their contribution it dosnt matter but in order for everyone to have a stake in the society and to be invested in the country, we all need to be included. The burden needs to be spread, spread fairly and according to means but spread nonetheless. This means the well off making a bigger contribution too btw.
Taking people out of the tax net is a fundamentally flawed policy. We want well paid public servants, we want social protection, we want investment in infrastructure. This means every able bodied person putting their shoulder to the wheel and putting their hand in their pocket.

Didas

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Go out the road to Ringaskeady and you'll find what is probably the most industrialised area in the country yet is only connected to the city by a totally unsuitable narrow two lane N road.

And you have parish minded NIMBYers in the green belt between them doing everything possible to stop a motorway being constructed.