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Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Timmaay

24/6/16

Recently we saw three posters close their accounts over disagreements in the dairy threads. While there is a lot of frustration and discontent with current milk prices and the processing industry, the recent tendency for dairy threads to become tit-for-tat arguments isn’t tolerable for those not involved.

All farming sectors go through difficult periods and during such times there may need to be changes in how threads are moderated.

Dairy threads are going to be more closely monitored and subject to stricter moderation for a while.

To that end we won’t tolerate baiting of posters, constantly reviving old arguments, posters with agendas or crusading for a cause.

Whether it’s discussion of the business or politics of the dairy or other sectors, we expect civility and tolerance toward each other and other opinions as diversity of opinion is needed as a source of different ways of looking at a situation.

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert

Also please be aware that what you may post as light-hearted banter can be read totally differently by someone adversely affected by the subject matter and evoke a reaction you hadn’t intended.

The ‘Off-Season’ forum, and its anonymous posting, is available for anyone to chat about their situation.

The Mod Team.

10 away from the 10000 posts! Frazz I think it's fair to say this thread has been a success!

Indeed it was! First thread can be found here- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056872221

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whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

Took afew samples this morning of the maize, 1st cut and afew bales. Not expecting much either, however given we'll only produce about 5% of our yearly milk supply off silage I don't hugely care. Have I mentioned before ditching the autumn calvers is the best thing we ever did ha?

you did once or twice

CallofGuti

Water John wrote: »

Seeing the distribution of those who have applied for the milk reduction scheme.
Big numbers are in Cork, Kerry and Limerick. What's the explanation as to why the map is so skewed to one side of the country?

Where did you see that? Many in Laois and Offaly?

Water John

Just saw the map in last weeks IFJ. I wasn't looking for a conspiracy but it was very skewed. There seemed very few Glanbia suppliers in comparison to the counties of Kerry, Cork and Limerick. Which would mean largely, Kerry and Dairygold, maybe West Cork also.
Actually IFJ of last Sat week.

cute geoge

Imo the sh..ty weather in september in kerry,limerick and cork as well as kerry plc paying the lowest price in ireland at the time pushed alot of farmers in to the scheme .Kerry plc might need to buck up in the price it pays as a share of farmers might make it a permanent reduction .It was a disgraceful stunt to attempt to keep paying the worst price while at the same time declaring record profits of 700 millon euro

yosemitesam1

Mooooo wrote: »

Tight on space here but I dried off some of the cows in better nick for just 6 weeks the last few years and yields were back 500 to 1k litres the following lactation. Now they went back in calf and held condition but yield was hit. As a have a fair few empties I'll dry off all the spring herd by mid Dec this year

Would the lost litres have been due to diet when dry? Might be too much to ask for them to repair udder in that time if only on silage...

Mooooo

Possibly, some were autumn calvers who would of been on grass only when dry calved at grass and then went on a grass/maize silage diet. The spring ones would have been getting grass silage and maize when dry along with minerals. I had a few on grass bale silage only in a dry shed but none of them were short term dries. More cubicles and feed space is what I need all tho silage is kept pushed in all the time until, fresh stuff fed in evening and pushed in in morning

blackdog1

Most cows are back 500 litres due to the terrible spring we had. People who were lucky enough to have maize or whole crop to feed until may had no problems.

Mooooo

blackdog1 wrote: »

Most cows are back 500 litres due to the terrible spring we had. People who were lucky enough to have maize or whole crop to feed until may had no problems.

I found the same with yield previous years. Now 6 weeks is probably doable alright but everything has to be bang on for em alright

whelan2

Dried off 8 this morning and 3 going to factory from parlour this evening, nearly a row less

blackdog1

Mooooo wrote:

I found the same with yield previous years. Now 6 weeks is probably doable alright but everything has to be bang on for em alright

Maybe if you have them on an indoor diet and in good condition but Definitely not on grass only

freedominacup

blackdog1 wrote: »

Maybe if you have them on an indoor diet and in good condition but Definitely not on grass only

I was speaking to a nutritionist during the week about this. What would you consider a proper dry cow diet? Roughly what sort of energy levels? Would you add protein of the type that will be in milking diet? How important is straw?

farmertipp

freedominacup wrote: »

I was speaking to a nutritionist during the week about this. What would you consider a proper dry cow diet? Roughly what sort of energy levels? Would you add protein of the type that will be in milking diet? How important is straw?

And what advice did he give?

freedominacup

farmertipp wrote: »

And what advice did he give?

I'm trying to pick other people's brains without colouring the debate with this lads advice. A few people have mentioned the need for specific dry cow diets and how getting it wrong can effect the following lactation. I'm just trying to get an outline of what people think is the correct approach. I'll post what the nutritionist had to say later if there's still an interest. He was working for a feed company so there's always a question if you're being steered in a certain direction.

Mooooo

I'll look up the diet later but dries here would be on about 1 to 2kg straw, 6 to 7kg grass silage 2 to 3 kg maize minerals as maybe a kg of maize balancer or less of soya depending on silage/maize results and amount of each that's there. Around the 12/13 kg dm total, 14% p in or around

freedominacup

Mooooo wrote: »

I'll look up the diet later but dries here would be on about 1 to 2kg straw, 6 to 7kg grass silage 2 to 3 kg maize minerals as maybe a kg of maize balancer or less of soya depending on silage/maize results and amount of each that's there. Around the 12/13 kg dm total, 14% p in or around

What sort of me/ufl?

Mooooo

freedominacup wrote: »

Mooooo wrote: »

I'll look up the diet later but dries here would be on about 1 to 2kg straw, 6 to 7kg grass silage 2 to 3 kg maize minerals as maybe a kg of maize balancer or less of soya depending on silage/maize results and amount of each that's there. Around the 12/13 kg dm total, 14% p in or around

What sort of me/ufl?

It's the advisor puts these diets together for me now so still taking what I can from them, I still have a lot to learn
There are three figures measured in Mcal/kg, NEL, MEM, and NEG. For one diet he made up which doesn't have maize in it as it's the only one I have on the phone, grass silage, straw and kg of meal, the NEL was 1.4, the MEM was 1.42 and the NEG was 0.78. Not sure which one correlates to me/ufl. Something I must go thru with him. Now there have been times were cows were in the hay shed and all they'd get is a bale of silage as diet feeder wouldn't go there but they would tend to be long term dries, and did fine

blackdog1

Mooooo wrote:

I'll look up the diet later but dries here would be on about 1 to 2kg straw, 6 to 7kg grass silage 2 to 3 kg maize minerals as maybe a kg of maize balancer or less of soya depending on silage/maize results and amount of each that's there. Around the 12/13 kg dm total, 14% p in or around

I wouldn't feed maize myself. Straw is a must. 1-2 kg of barley oats mix and I add soya hulls if protein is low in silage. I put cal mag and lime in mix to cover for milk fever. Cows get mineral bolus at dry off and I put iodine tablets in the water too.

whelan2

What is in these pre calver nuts that makes them so expensive, does anyone feed them, normally 100 euro/tonne over dairy nut cost?

Mooooo

blackdog1 wrote: »

Mooooo wrote:

I'll look up the diet later but dries here would be on about 1 to 2kg straw, 6 to 7kg grass silage 2 to 3 kg maize minerals as maybe a kg of maize balancer or less of soya depending on silage/maize results and amount of each that's there. Around the 12/13 kg dm total, 14% p in or around

I wouldn't feed maize myself. Straw is a must. 1-2 kg of barley oats mix and I add soya hulls if protein is low in silage. I put cal mag and lime in mix to cover for milk fever. Cows get mineral bolus at dry off and I put iodine tablets in the water too.

Feed it most years, it could be 60/40 grass maize silage in milkers diet so helps them transition in. Lack the space for a proper transition group at the min so keep the ones closest in calving date near the milkers and if a good number are near may put a bit of the milkers mix out there

C0N0R

whelan2 wrote: »

What is in these pre calver nuts that makes them so expensive, does anyone feed them, normally 100 euro/tonne over dairy nut cost?

Higher mineral content maybe because only to be fed at low rates compared to milking ration? Have fed them in the past, has aided putting condition on lighter cows and found reduced levels of milk fever, retained cleanings etc. As with everything it comes at a price though. €€

mahoney_j

freedominacup wrote: »

I'm trying to pick other people's brains without colouring the debate with this lads advice. A few people have mentioned the need for specific dry cow diets and how getting it wrong can effect the following lactation. I'm just trying to get an outline of what people think is the correct approach. I'll post what the nutritionist had to say later if there's still an interest. He was working for a feed company so there's always a question if you're being steered in a certain direction.

My dry cow diet is nothing fancy .it starts with drying off the cow in near the same condition I want her calving down .i take a few dungs in early November to test for fluke worms and will dose or not dose based on results .all cows done for lice .straight after calving cows are left out on some scrub for a few days with ad lib access to straw and water and 2/3 kg wirey silage .after that cows onto cubicles and ad lib silage which is >73 Dmd this year and straw 2 kg .pre calver minerals offered at 120 gramms per head per day from Xmas week .week before calving onto straw beds same silage /straw and add 1 cc lugiols iodine to water .feed no meal till they hit parlour .no issues ,biggest problem is stopping cows getting over fat on later calvers ,then I decrease silage and feed 3/4 kg straw .2 big things ,cows in correct bcs at drying off and maintaining it ,straw in diet and dry cow minerals

alps

Sometimes I don't think we farm properly at all....

Our drys just get silage (whatever is in the pit) and dry cow minerals. To me it's downtime...I just couldn't complicate that...

Buford T. Justice XIX

alps wrote: »

Sometimes I don't think we farm properly at all....

Our drys just get silage (whatever is in the pit) and dry cow minerals. To me it's downtime...I just couldn't complicate that...

I take up my hobby when the cows are dry.

I lamb 50 ewes when the cows are dry:)

blackdog1

alps wrote:

Our drys just get silage (whatever is in the pit) and dry cow minerals. To me it's downtime...I just couldn't complicate that...

That's fine at the start but they need a bit more closer to calving. Get a mill to pre mix some dry cow feed with cal mag and lime and give them a couple of kgs 2 weeks from calving and put iodine in the water. Makes a huge difference. Straw is very important too for milk fever and stomach problems. If cows calve right the rest of the year is easy.

yosemitesam1

Mooooo wrote: »

It's the advisor puts these diets together for me now so still taking what I can from them, I still have a lot to learn
There are three figures measured in Mcal/kg, NEL, MEM, and NEG. For one diet he made up which doesn't have maize in it as it's the only one I have on the phone, grass silage, straw and kg of meal, the NEL was 1.4, the MEM was 1.42 and the NEG was 0.78. Not sure which one correlates to me/ufl. Something I must go thru with him. Now there have been times were cows were in the hay shed and all they'd get is a bale of silage as diet feeder wouldn't go there but they would tend to be long term dries, and did fine

There's 1.7 mcals of nel in a ufl. Neg/m just get different conversion efficiencies applied to me.

Timmaay

68dmd for both the 1st cut pit silage (cut 17th may), and the leafy bales. Pit silage 22dm, bales 36. I may hide them results from my dad given the arguing we had about cutting dates ha, he wanted bulk, I wanted fast regrowth.

yewtree

Haven't put straw into dry cows diet here in years, no issues with milk fever, twisted stomachs retained cleanings. Cows are just on ab lib silage 68-70 DMD and a basic pre calver mineral. i think BCS is the most important thing to get right. No meal to dry cows bar a small batch of thin cows that get a couple of kgs of barley to improve condition.
not convinced about how important straw is, I think most cows would get on grand without it, probably has a role to reduce overall k content in diet where grass silage is high in k.

kerry cow

We have done it all , started nz type system in 2000 ,out wintering cows on daily grass blocks , then changed to maize and increased yield from 2002 onward .built the building , diet wagon and up to 2 ton of ration .nearly went broke . Winter milking with poor bonus .
In 2014 changed back to high ebi , cow now milking 5500l , 350kg meal .no diet feeding dry cows any longer .just grabs .diet feed milkers. No straw to dry cows .
We need to keep it simple , how carried away we can get with reps selling this and that .
Looking back to the old crowd in the 80's I sometimes think they were nt too far from the mark .We got to keep borrowing down and keep it simple .sorry from drifting .

Keepgrowing

Only 2 non negotiable targets here, closing cover and Bcs at drying. Cows see dried for 6 weeks with any cows under conditioned dried earlier. Cows carrying twins are tagged at the scan, dried for 12 weeks with the best quality milking cow silage fed to them for the first 6 weeks dry.

All our dry cow silage is bought in bales or on the shank so quality isn't reliable. We just keep it piled into them. Have hay this year and will fire that in early to free up shed for calves, unless someone wants to buy it.

No minerals of any kind fed to cows. No calving problems beside the usual feet or head down. Nobody sees cows from midnight till 5.30 am during calving and we only lost 2 calves at night this spring.

Down to 6 autumn ladies in waiting and haven't seen 1 calve yet. They're on straw bed and we just check them morning and evening.

yosemitesam1

Mooooo wrote: »

I'll look up the diet later but dries here would be on about 1 to 2kg straw, 6 to 7kg grass silage 2 to 3 kg maize minerals as maybe a kg of maize balancer or less of soya depending on silage/maize results and amount of each that's there. Around the 12/13 kg dm total, 14% p in or around

Just thinking about this, wonder would the protein be a bit on the low side. For the cow to go from milking to dry back to milking in 6 weeks there would probably be around 4 weeks of that available to repair the udder. With 15kgs or so weight in it and all based on protein there must be a fairly large demand for protein to get it repaired and meet maintenance+calf requirements.
If the americans/europeans were feeding 14% cp diet it would probably be no harm to add 1-2% to allow for poorer supply of protein from silage compared to maize/lucerne/soya diets