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What is going on in our schools?

Oldtrope

I live in a very rural part of Ireland as many of you know, the village I live in can have no more than 500 homes in the surrounding area.

This morning I took my Granddaughter to school, its her first year and she is junior Infants. What I witnessed was shocking and upsetting.

The classroom was nicely laid out but everywhere I looked foreign words were displayed all over the walls with pictures of flags and their name in their language. For Ireland the words were wrote in English, no Gaelige anywhere.

I enjoy talking to some of the other parents as I have done in the past when I took one of my grandsons to the school in the past, today was much different. Nearly every mother I spoke too were foreign, I encountered a lot of Eastern Europeans, a few Brazilians, and some English. If I had to put a number on it I would say the majority of the classroom had foreign children with only a small percentage of Irish children.

I waited to speak to the teacher, I wanted to know why Ireland was represented in English and not Gaelige. When she arrived she was welcoming and appeared almost happy someone had finally asked her the question. She told me that because the majority of the classroom could speak very little English they had to use their own languages to welcome them and make them feel at home, English was the 2nd language that all children must learn and so even Irish has to be represented in English. They do still teach Irish as part of the curriculum, but it is only taught at the bare minimum acceptance level as it was no use to the classroom because the majority of the children had been exempted by the school governors and the department of Education.

I asked her why were there so many non Irish children, she replied to me that if I thought this was bad then I should look at the bigger towns and Cities where the problem was far worse.

This is madness, we are losing our cultural heritage and now our children are minorities in their own schools and suffering because of it.

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meeeeh

spurious wrote: »

In the school I used to teach in, the 'top' Irish class was made up of at least a quarter 'foreign' children, for whom it was not compulsory and who came to it without bias and prejudice. After Polish or Czech, Irish grammar is a doddle.

It's probably easier for kids who have to learn one foreign language to learn two.

Anyway there are couple of issues with mixed schools. The non national kids seem to attend disproportionately some schools and not attend the others. While there is no huge anti immigration hostility in Ireland, I also doubt the integration is that great in certain areas. And there is a difference between true integration and tolerating each other.

Nekarsulm

Brought our 10 year old girl to basketball on Monday. The club is now based in the Gym. of a fairly well known boys school in the County town. It would have been run by Religious order in the past, produced priests, Archbishops etc, that kind of place.
Annway, while waiting, was reading the projects up on the wall. One wall was covered with reports by a class of "In my Grandparents time"
It was fascinating to read of students whose grand parents came from tiny villages in Poland, Ukraine, USSR etc, along with local townlands. All remarked on the hardships of life in the early parts of the 20th century. Almost every response mentioned the carrying of water from wells to the dwelling house, and the hard labour associated with life at that time.
Truely, we Central Europeans have very similar backgrounds, and the differences we choose to highlight are usually of Politicians making, and to their own benefit.
Untill the late 70's we were an inward focused and insular society, and the integration of other European and other cultures has transformed our country.

spurious

In the school I used to teach in, the 'top' Irish class was made up of at least a quarter 'foreign' children, for whom it was not compulsory and who came to it without bias and prejudice. After Polish or Czech, Irish grammar is a doddle.

dont bother

Oldtrope wrote: »

I live in a very rural part of Ireland as many of you know, the village I live in can have no more than 500 homes in the surrounding area.

This morning I took my Granddaughter to school, its her first year and she is junior Infants. What I witnessed was shocking and upsetting.

The classroom was nicely laid out but everywhere I looked foreign words were displayed all over the walls with pictures of flags and their name in their language. For Ireland the words were wrote in English, no Gaelige anywhere.

I enjoy talking to some of the other parents as I have done in the past when I took one of my grandsons to the school in the past, today was much different. Nearly every mother I spoke too were foreign, I encountered a lot of Eastern Europeans, a few Brazilians, and some English. If I had to put a number on it I would say the majority of the classroom had foreign children with only a small percentage of Irish children.

I waited to speak to the teacher, I wanted to know why Ireland was represented in English and not Gaelige. When she arrived she was welcoming and appeared almost happy someone had finally asked her the question. She told me that because the majority of the classroom could speak very little English they had to use their own languages to welcome them and make them feel at home, English was the 2nd language that all children must learn and so even Irish has to be represented in English. They do still teach Irish as part of the curriculum, but it is only taught at the bare minimum acceptance level as it was no use to the classroom because the majority of the children had been exempted by the school governors and the department of Education.

I asked her why were there so many non Irish children, she replied to me that if I thought this was bad then I should look at the bigger towns and Cities where the problem was far worse.

This is madness, we are losing our cultural heritage and now our children are minorities in their own schools and suffering because of it.

every word of this is racist.
what's your problem with there being "foreign" students in the classroom.
they are as irish as you are OP, just maybe a bit more modern and present day than your fantasy of an "ould oirland". get with the times.

ThisRegard

sjw_central wrote: »

It will lead to unrest and perhaps even to civil war. We can see the process has already begun.

Ah, I was wondering why I was stumbling across all the weapons stockpiles when out walking.

Surely someone with the username of Social Justice Worker Central (edit: probably should have said Social Justice Warrior) you'd be a lot more tolerant?

Moo Moo Land

sjw_central wrote: »

We shouldn't allow bullies like Enda Kenny, Merkel, Geldof, Bono or Peter Sutherland to dictate to us that we nust destroy our societies as it's 'the right thing to do'.

How exactly do you feel bullied? I have never experienced any sense of bullying when it comes to immigration.

Shenshen

sjw_central wrote: »

The world has become very polarised nowadays.

This site, Boards.ie, is also known to have a bias. This site tends to be leftist and liberal, and to identify with issues such as gay marraige and civil obedience.

The Political Irish site seems very rough by comparison, but I don't think it's fair to discount their members views simply because of that.

Politicians seem unable to bring the entire population with them into their brave new world. Many people are feeling left out and are feeling like their life is getting worse, not better.

On several major issues the population is split approx 50-50.

I think politicians are wrong to force unwelcome changes onto people who don't want the changes. It will lead to unrest and perhaps even to civil war. We can see the process has already begun.

Our government should seek to provide a safe and sustainable society, rather than a violent multicultural hodgepodge.

The simple question is; where has multiculturalism worked?

If it doesn't work, why are politicians bullying people into accepting it?

Welcome to the world of realpolitik.

It's not a question of what does or doesn't work, the world isn't a lab. It's what's happening and what is the best way (as in, the cheapest, easiest way causing the least amount of pain or possibly the way even having an outlook of future gain) to deal with it.

Where multiculturalism is concerned, it's just a posh term for "people will go where they expect a better life, what can we do to make sure there's as little friction in the process as possible and if possible turn things to everyone's advantage".
It's as old as mankind, it just seems that since this new phrase was invented people get their knickers in a twist about that.

Shenshen

sjw_central wrote: »

You are simply dictating that we are living in a new world.

What gives you the right?

People who want fundamental changes in society should be able to argue for the changes, rather than simply dictating that the changes are good and that the changes must take place.

Comsumerism and globalism are destroying societies and the environment. We should have a national conversation about that.

We shouldn't allow bullies like Enda Kenny, Merkel, Geldof, Bono or Peter Sutherland to dictate to us that we nust destroy our societies as it's 'the right thing to do'.

I think consumerism and globalism in particular are prime examples of what the majority of people really actually want.
Neither would exist if the masses weren't demanding it.

If there was a majority that actually objected to consumerism and globalism, the concept would collapse from lack of funding. As long as people prefer buying as cheap as possible rather than as local as possible, or as responsible as possible, consumerism and globalism will thrive despite politicians' best efforts to control them and rein them in.

dav3

sjw_central wrote: »

I think politicians are wrong to force unwelcome changes onto people who don't want the changes. It will lead to unrest and perhaps even to civil war. We can see the process has already begun.

How have we made the jump from a fairytale the OP imagined in his head to civil war?

Who will be fighting in this imaginary civil war that will never happen? What will the sides be?

It's good to see so many re-regs take an interest in this fabricated piece by the OP.

sjw_central

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

...
We live in a new world. People need to adapt or wallow in resentment.

You are simply dictating that we are living in a new world.

What gives you the right?

People who want fundamental changes in society should be able to argue for the changes, rather than simply dictating that the changes are good and that the changes must take place.

Comsumerism and globalism are destroying societies and the environment. We should have a national conversation about that.

We shouldn't allow bullies like Enda Kenny, Merkel, Geldof, Bono or Peter Sutherland to dictate to us that we nust destroy our societies as it's 'the right thing to do'.

[Deleted User]

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You're missing the point. It's not their fault for sure, but it IS an issue if your literate child is being forced to proceed at a slower pace because his non-national classmates don't speak the local language (well enough).

There's only so many hours in the school day and the first few years are probably the most important from a developmental standpoint.

Please, primary school is 8 years of the same thing every year with 10-20% difference. If a kid can read and do maths before they start then how far they progress will be down to them and their parents, not the slow, meandering curriculum to be covered.

sjw_central

hawthorne wrote: »

Just take a look at this :

http://www.politicalirish.com/threads/mein-kampf-multiculturalism-will-fail.10858/

Typical post for that site. This "Tadgh Gaelach" looks like a massive fascist moron.
The moderators seem to tolerate all that nazi propaganda.

The world has become very polarised nowadays.

This site, Boards.ie, is also known to have a bias. This site tends to be leftist and liberal, and to identify with issues such as gay marraige and civil obedience.

The Political Irish site seems very rough by comparison, but I don't think it's fair to discount their members views simply because of that.

Politicians seem unable to bring the entire population with them into their brave new world. Many people are feeling left out and are feeling like their life is getting worse, not better.

On several major issues the population is split approx 50-50.

I think politicians are wrong to force unwelcome changes onto people who don't want the changes. It will lead to unrest and perhaps even to civil war. We can see the process has already begun.

Our government should seek to provide a safe and sustainable society, rather than a violent multicultural hodgepodge.

The simple question is; where has multiculturalism worked?

If it doesn't work, why are politicians bullying people into accepting it?

turbowolfed

RayCun wrote: »

My daughter's school has "gender-neutral" "bathrooms" in her "school".

There's a cubicle, and there is no sign saying "boys" or "girls" on the outside, so anyone can use it :eek:

......and? it's not like unisex bathrooms are a new invention??

blueb

i was going to reply to address some of the points you made in the post.
But i actually cant be arsed. your clearly set in your bigotry ways.
Good look with fighting that loosing battle.

RayCun

My daughter's school has "gender-neutral" "bathrooms" in her "school".

There's a cubicle, and there is no sign saying "boys" or "girls" on the outside, so anyone can use it :eek:

_Kaiser_

Deleted User wrote: »

If you're sending a five year old to school for the first time and you haven't taught them to read and write by then it's not the foreigners' fault.

You're missing the point. It's not their fault for sure, but it IS an issue if your literate child is being forced to proceed at a slower pace because his non-national classmates don't speak the local language (well enough).

There's only so many hours in the school day and the first few years are probably the most important from a developmental standpoint.

_Kaiser_

BrokenArrows wrote: »

This does have an effect on schools but at the end of the day your granddaughter will grow up to be a better person because of it.

In some ways yes, but I personally have concerns about how the Irish Government's/establishment approach to these things seems to be to accommodate everyone else's needs first before our own - because we're terrified of being seen as "racist" or not part of the glorious EU team.

You see that with the country's response to things like the "refugee" crisis, talk of our adopting things like "gender neutral" bathrooms in schools - all so we can show how "right on" and "progressive" we are. "We" seem to have a need for validation and approval in this country,

It's bad enough now that kids have to contend with things like an ever-present social media where every step/misstep they make may be recorded, as well as cyberbullying over IM apps.. but I for one worry about some of the things my son will be told in this new, sanitised and "approved" world we live in... you only need to read threads like this or some of the other more "controversial" topics to see what I mean.

[Deleted User]

If you're sending a five year old to school for the first time and you haven't taught them to read and write by then it's not the foreigners' fault.

_Kaiser_

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

Yeah but to be fair, you would be amazed how quick the children with poor English skills come up to speed with the common language (I don't care about "sectarian" Irish).

We live in a new world. People need to adapt or wallow in resentment.

Oh agreed.. and as a child we moved to Holland for a few years where the classroom was exactly like what the OP is describing.. although the difference there was that most of the kids already had decent English (local TV had subtitles for UK/US shows rather than dubbing), as well as 2+ other languages as well in many cases (and this was the mid-80s)

Maybe the answer is some sort of dedicated after-school English classes for those who are new to it rather than potentially holding back the whole class?

BrokenArrows

Oldtrope wrote: »

I live in a very rural part of Ireland as many of you know, the village I live in can have no more than 500 homes in the surrounding area.

This morning I took my Granddaughter to school, its her first year and she is junior Infants. What I witnessed was shocking and upsetting.

The classroom was nicely laid out but everywhere I looked foreign words were displayed all over the walls with pictures of flags and their name in their language. For Ireland the words were wrote in English, no Gaelige anywhere.

I enjoy talking to some of the other parents as I have done in the past when I took one of my grandsons to the school in the past, today was much different. Nearly every mother I spoke too were foreign, I encountered a lot of Eastern Europeans, a few Brazilians, and some English. If I had to put a number on it I would say the majority of the classroom had foreign children with only a small percentage of Irish children.

I waited to speak to the teacher, I wanted to know why Ireland was represented in English and not Gaelige. When she arrived she was welcoming and appeared almost happy someone had finally asked her the question. She told me that because the majority of the classroom could speak very little English they had to use their own languages to welcome them and make them feel at home, English was the 2nd language that all children must learn and so even Irish has to be represented in English. They do still teach Irish as part of the curriculum, but it is only taught at the bare minimum acceptance level as it was no use to the classroom because the majority of the children had been exempted by the school governors and the department of Education.

I asked her why were there so many non Irish children, she replied to me that if I thought this was bad then I should look at the bigger towns and Cities where the problem was far worse.

This is madness, we are losing our cultural heritage and now our children are minorities in their own schools and suffering because of it.

So your question is "why are there so few Irish children?" but in reality you are asking "Why are the schools allowing foreigners in?".

Schools will accept whoever lives in the area. If there were more Irish children in the area then there will be more Irish children in the schools.

Get over it. Ireland is not the isolated "white irish" nation that it once was. It is now a diverse range of cultures from all over the world which is a good thing.

This does have an effect on schools but at the end of the day your granddaughter will grow up to be a better person because of it.

Moo Moo Land

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

So I've skipped past the usual/predictable AH responses, so apologies if this was already said

The OP has a valid point in there. Our classes are increasingly diverse and while that's not a bad thing, it IS an issue if it means that Irish children's opportunities to learn are being stunted by a need to first develop basic (English - I don't care about Irish) skills of their classmates.

My own little fella was down for a local school that historically had great feedback but when speaking to one of the teachers this very point was brought up as she felt he would be "held back" by this. I (genuinely) hadn't even considered it before then, but it made sense too. If you first need to establish a common language then that's time lost for other topics. As a result he's down for a different school instead.

It's great that they get to experience different languages and cultures at a young age, but this needs to be balanced against the need to actually get on with teaching them new things as well. I couldn't give a toss whether that's un-PC or whatever other nonsense term some here will use, but the welfare of my child comes first - even if some are offended by that.

Yeah but to be fair, you would be amazed how quick the children with poor English skills come up to speed with the common language (I don't care about "sectarian" Irish).

We live in a new world. People need to adapt or wallow in resentment.

_Kaiser_

So I've skipped past the usual/predictable AH responses, so apologies if this was already said

The OP has a valid point in there. Our classes are increasingly diverse and while that's not a bad thing, it IS an issue if it means that Irish children's opportunities to learn are being stunted by a need to first develop basic (English - I don't care about Irish) skills of their classmates.

My own little fella was down for a local school that historically had great feedback but when speaking to one of the teachers this very point was brought up as she felt he would be "held back" by this. I (genuinely) hadn't even considered it before then, but it made sense too. If you first need to establish a common language then that's time lost for other topics. As a result he's down for a different school instead.

It's great that they get to experience different languages and cultures at a young age, but this needs to be balanced against the need to actually get on with teaching them new things as well. I couldn't give a toss whether that's un-PC or whatever other nonsense term some here will use, but the welfare of my child comes first - even if some are offended by that.

HellSquirrel

meeeeh wrote: »

In fairness Chinese food here is cultural genocide of proper Chinese food.

But all that lovely MSG!

Moo Moo Land

To be fair to the OP, this is exactly why Gaelscoils have become so popular.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Oldtrope wrote: »

The centenary of 1916 and we are giving away our nation to another batch of foreigners. T'is very sad. Someone said we absorbed the Normans and English! They came as planters and invaders.

Perhaps the Irish will get reservations and casinos like the Red Indians!

If you're going to bother at all, try and be original at least.

meeeeh

Pherekydes wrote: »

I didn't fancy cooking so I got a Chinese on the way home. It's cultural genocide, so it ...

In fairness Chinese food here is cultural genocide of proper Chinese food.

Pherekydes

I understand the OP's concern.

Why, only last week I was driving past Tallaght and I saw the lights were on in the stadium there, so I stopped to see what was going on and it turned out to be a soccer game! Bloody foreign games! Anyway, I carried on to the hospital and why it seemed to be staffed full of furriners and immigants!!! A black doctor saw to my wrist!1!!!!.

I didn't fancy cooking so I got a Chinese on the way home. It's cultural genocide, so it is, letting all those foreigners into our country and staffing our hospitals and whatnot, and having the audacity to send their kids to OUR schools!!

Immigants!!!

quickbeam

Oldtrope wrote: »

I live in a very rural part of Ireland as many of you know, the village I live in can have no more than 500 homes in the surrounding area.

Was there some sort of Council by-law passed that won't allow your village to exceed 500 homes? What happens if a 501st home is built? Are they made to knock it down? Or the other residents of the village fined for allowing the 500 limit to be exceeded?

Strange law none the less, but I guess that's the way things are done out of the main cities these days .....

hawthorne

Grayson wrote: »

I just took a look at the thread on the site the OP was taken from. The people there are poisonous.

Just take a look at this :

http://www.politicalirish.com/threads/mein-kampf-multiculturalism-will-fail.10858/

Typical post for that site. This "Tadgh Gaelach" looks like a massive fascist moron.
The moderators seem to tolerate all that nazi propaganda.

Grayson

I just took a look at the thread on the site the OP was taken from. The people there are poisonous.