acequion wrote: » I am fully with the anti CP hours people And the idea of a clock in / out system gives me the shivers. What sort of dreary,utilitarian universe are some people envisaging? Am also horrified at the suggestions to make CP 'productive' They are an insult and they are punitive. I would strike just to get rid of them. People suggesting ways to use them are actually helping to make them permanent. No way should we be accepting proscriptive CPD or proscriptive anything. We already clock in big hours at this job and we're poorly paid. Recognised planning time and after school staff and P/t meetings are the only acceptable compromise. And people are very foolish if they don't fight tooth n nail on this now that we have the chance.
man_no_plan wrote: » The Croke park hours weren't the beginning of this, it started in 2004. Granted it took a big leap forward after this with the 33hours. This detention and demeaning and unproductive talk is all well and good but sometimes teachers need to meet colleagues for subject planning and school planning. How often do we hear that theres no 'consultation' or 'we weren't informed' it seems that planning, consultation and being informed are very desirable unless it happens after 4pm. While 33 hours is, possibly, excessive any organisation needs to have some time for planning and reflection. Should this come from teaching time? The main effect of cp in my school was that we haven't lost teaching days to meetings which used to happen a lot.
doc_17 wrote: » If there was a clocking in system they wouldn't get as much out of us as they do. If that dark day ever happens then I will clock in and clock out, at the exact second I'm supposed to and not a millisecond more. No more correcting at home, course, teams, overnights, tours, trips gaisce.
Mrwhite1970 wrote: » I could be wrong but I dont think attendance sheets are required by the agreement.
political analyst wrote: » The problem is: If the government lets teachers off the CP hours then other public sector workers will demand the same concession and so LRA will collapse.
tayto lover wrote: » The CP hours are a really stupid idea when the teachers can't spend them actually teaching and have to use the time holding stupid and pointless meetings just for the sake of it.
political analyst wrote: » Having the hours involve teaching would mean having pupils in school for longer in the day. That wouldn't be feasible because of the amount of stress that children are under these days because of homework and exams. The fact that other public-sector workers had to do extra hours under the CP deal meant that teachers were never going to get away without doing them too. That's the only reason the Govt insisted on those hours.
amacca wrote: » I'd say most teachers on here understand that what might be causing trouble is why all the other extra hours they do aren't recognised or allowed count for CP
amacca wrote: » it might also be why these hours may ultimately do much more harm than good to the education system - they are a good example of the drawbacks of a one size fits all policy imo
Mardy Bum wrote: » "You cannot give a different category of pay to one group of workers doing the same work as another group." Brendan Howlin on RTE about S and S but inadvertently highlights the need for equalisation of pay for LPT. Checkmate.
political analyst wrote: » How else is attendance to be proven to the Department?
Mrwhite1970 wrote: » Confirmed with principal. No attendance sheets necessary for department. The principal probably sends in some form but nothing individual. While I want rid of hours they get way too much attention. What about erosion of middle management or bull **** initiatives ? To my mind way more important.
political analyst wrote: » Then the ASTI should push for the Govt to let schools have discretion over what is done in these hours and let the only obligation on teachers being that they be in the school for those hours and not in the same room. A clocking-in system would prove that the teachers are at the school when they're supposed to be. To be honest, I never understood why there is no clocking-in system for teachers and other members of school staff, given that most other workers in the public and private sectors do it.
acequion wrote: » Re read the post. I did say that staff meeting after school is an acceptable compromise. By staff meetings I'm referring to the whole thing ie subject meetings,liaising and all that. A reasonable and acceptable number of these per year could be decided in advance along with the P/t meetings and possibly individual planning recognition. Anything above and beyond that is demeaning. And yes you are referring to the earlier half in/half out system. Which has brought to total of extra hours up to 45. Lunacy not to fight this!
political analyst wrote: » Wasn't the moratorium on middle-management positions partially alleviated under HRA? As for BS initiatives, do you include Assessment for Learning and the new Junior Cycle system?
Mrwhite1970 wrote: » Alleviated ? That's an abuse of language by someone. ALL that happened was that a floor was put in. They could not fall below so many posts but our school has just five A posts for 700 kids and three b posts. Do you think that's enough with the JC on the agenda and the social work element of modern schools? I do regard AFL as bull **** . I'm still making my mind up about the JC
ethical wrote: » unlike the many teachers of today that will not ever reach a full pensionable service as they were subbing,part time,emigrant or unemployed for some thing like the first 15 years of their careers.PASCHAL,YOU DO NOT NEED TO PAY ANY CONSULTANTS TO CHECK OUT IF THIS WOULD WORK!
political analyst wrote: » The problem is that the fact that extra-curricular work is voluntary means that not all teachers do it and thus it can't be counted for CP.
political analyst wrote: » Then why doesn't the ASTI try to persuade other public-sector representative organisations of the uniqueness of the teaching profession, i.e. the fact that teachers do voluntary work inside and outside school hours?
ethical wrote: » Posts were eroded,yet the work was done,teachers just got on with it and doubled up on tasks while some moaned, it was all for the good of the school and the community and unfortunately while this may be true it proved that school could continue without extra posts and this is what has happened
amacca wrote: » This illustrates neatly why ultimately you get punished for being generous with your time...... Although I believe schools won't continue satisfactorily without these posts, people will eventually wise up or the system will creak along as standards gradually erode.....
coillsaille wrote: » Colm O'Rourke says the DES should just give the ASTI the payments for SnS outside of LRA. Surprising opinion from such a consistent critic of the union.
jonseyblub wrote: » I'd say he's just dreading trying to deal with the consequences. No time to interview outside people to do S&S with all his other TV, Paper coaching and property developing commitments!!
km79 wrote: » That would solve that problem But then the TUI...........and all the other issues
