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Remove dimmer switch

Happy_Harry

My kitchen downlights have an overly complex and not functioning set up where one set of lights is controlled by 2 normal dimmers, I only found this weekend, that that is the problem I have with lights sometimes not working, so I need to remove one of the dimmer switches.

Group of lights 1 - served by Dimmer X
Group of lights 2 - served by Dimmers Y & Z

Dimmer X and Dimmer Y are in the back of one wall plate and are connected

I want to remove the function of dimmer Y.

Dimmer X has one brown wire from the box going to L1 and one brown wire going from box to C, it also has another brown wire going from C to C on Dimmer Y.
Dimmer Y therefore has 1 brown wire going from C to C on Dimmer X, as well as a brown wire from the box going to L1 and one going to L2.

What needs to happen to make dimmer Y redundant and then being able to operate Group 1 with just dimmer X and Group 2 with dimmer Z ?

I'd say the wire going into C on dimmer Y needs to go to C on dimmer X, the connecting wire needs to go, but I am not sure what to do with the wires going into L1 and L2 on dimmer Y.
On dimmer Z, I probably need to remove the wire that is currently in L2 as it becomes a one way switch now, what do I do with that wire ?
Before you say anything, I have been looking for over a year for an electrician to come and fix this, but to no avail, not interested.

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Dardania

Got a picture of the cabling?

Happy_Harry

Dardania wrote: »

Got a picture of the cabling?

Not at present, will make one tonight, when I get home.

Dardania

Happy_Harry wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

Got a picture of the cabling?

Not at present, will make one tonight, when I get home.

And dimmer Z - I'd say the problem as you say is that the original sparks tried implementing a two way switching scheme with dimmer switches.

A possibility to consider would be to keep dimmer X & Y operational, and turn Dimmer Z into a switch Z...but would need to understand what the dimmers support first.

Happy_Harry

The problem with that is that Z is on a wall plate with another dimmer (W) controlling yet another group of lights. If wall plates would exist consisting of a dimmer and an on/off switch, I would consider, but they don't exist I'd say.

X supports 4 LED GU10 downlights (working fine)
Y/Z support 6 LED GU10 downlights
W supports 2 halogen spotlights (working fine)

Anyway - I will try post a diagram and picture later. Help is much appreciated

aido79

Happy_Harry wrote: »

My kitchen downlights have an overly complex and not functioning set up where one set of lights is controlled by 2 normal dimmers, I only found this weekend, that that is the problem I have with lights sometimes not working, so I need to remove one of the dimmer switches.

Group of lights 1 - served by Dimmer X
Group of lights 2 - served by Dimmers Y & Z

Dimmer X and Dimmer Y are in the back of one wall plate and are connected

I want to remove the function of dimmer Y.

Dimmer X has one brown wire from the box going to L1 and one brown wire going from box to C, it also has another brown wire going from C to C on Dimmer Y.
Dimmer Y therefore has 1 brown wire going from C to C on Dimmer X, as well as a brown wire from the box going to L1 and one going to L2.

What needs to happen to make dimmer Y redundant and then being able to operate Group 1 with just dimmer X and Group 2 with dimmer Z ?

I'd say the wire going into C on dimmer Y needs to go to C on dimmer X, the connecting wire needs to go, but I am not sure what to do with the wires going into L1 and L2 on dimmer Y.
On dimmer Z, I probably need to remove the wire that is currently in L2 as it becomes a one way switch now, what do I do with that wire ?
Before you say anything, I have been looking for over a year for an electrician to come and fix this, but to no avail, not interested.

The reason the lights sometimes don't work is because you can't have two dimmers operating the same lights.

If you want to get rid of dimmer Y then you need to join either the wire in L1 or L2(or both) to the common in dimmer X. Then at dimmer Z you need to join the same wire(s) you have put in the common of dimmer X into the common of dimmer Z. The last step will be to put the wire that was originally in the common of dimmer Z into the L1 of dimmer Z.

An alternative would be to replace dimmer Y with a normal two way switch but that may not be possible depending on the type of plate you have.

Edit: just noticed the part about dimmer W. Will need to see wiring diagram.

Happy_Harry

That is the diagram of how it looks now... I am well confused with only brown wires.. @Aido- your advice still stands after looking at the diagram ?
BTW- where there is one brown line coming out of a grey box, it means the grey cable only has one wire, where there is 2 , it will have 2 etc..
Hope it is clear

aido79

Happy_Harry wrote: »

My solution above will work although I would probably go one step further and link the commons of W and Z and put the original common of W in a connector as I think it may be illegal to have two different circuits in one switch plate.

Another tip would be to ensure you never hire the original electrician again because he really doesn't know what he's doing.

Happy_Harry

And yes, I wouldn't mind changing the dimmer to a switch but there is no wall plate that holds a dimmer and a switch, so that is not possible

Happy_Harry

That is actually the work of the guy the builder got 15 years ago, combined with an electrican we hired when doing up the kitchen and an electrican we got in later to move the group1 lights... Real team work... and I am not at all surprised by your comment unfortunately..

Happy_Harry

When you say it is illegal to have 2 circuits in one wall plate, all electricty in my diagram is linked to one switch on the fuse board... But I guess you can have multiple circuits behind one fuse ?

aido79

Happy_Harry wrote: »

When you say it is illegal to have 2 circuits in one wall plate, all electricty in my diagram is linked to one switch on the fuse board... But I guess you can have multiple circuits behind one fuse ?

Ah ok. It seems to all be on the one circuit with some "interesting" wiring involved if it is all linked to one MCB on the fuseboard.
2 gang switches with a dimmer switch and rocker switch do exist although I'm not sure if they are available in Ireland.

Happy_Harry

Something like this then ?
Any danger of severely damaging anything(house fire) when changing the wires ?
Should I be using the earth connectors on the wall plates - I am sure they are there for a reason ? Is it dangerous to have a metal wall plate not earthed ?

aido79

Happy_Harry wrote: »

Something like this then ?
Any danger of severely damaging anything(house fire) when changing the wires ?
Should I be using the earth connectors on the wall plates - I am sure they are there for a reason ? Is it dangerous to have a metal wall plate not earthed ?

No. The same wires you use to go from the common on X need to go to the common on Z. This needs to be linked to the common on W. The wire that was originally in the common in Z needs to go to L1 on Z and the wire that was in L1 in W should stay in L1.

All metal parts of an electrical installation should be earthed so you need an earth at each metal plate.

Happy_Harry

Hmm,
There was no wire in L1 on W. Also how do I link the wire from common on Z to common to X ? The wall plates are 4 meters apart..

aido79

Happy_Harry wrote: »

Hmm,
There was no wire in L1 on W. Also how do I link the wire from common on Z to common to X ? The wall plates are 4 meters apart..

The strappers(twin cable) between Y and Z can be used to join the commons of Z and X.

If there was a cable in L2 on W then use that.

Happy_Harry

aido79 wrote: »

The strappers(twin cable) between Y and Z can be used to join the commons of Z and X.

If there was a cable in L2 on W then use that.

Right so the twin cable from wall plate 1 should be the same as in wall plate 2 ?
I will give it a go- on paper first.. post it here later

Thanks - really appreciate it

Happy_Harry

As luck would have it - I had an electrician in the house today unexpectedly and he was so nice as to fix it... And he told me the reason the lights weren't working was due to a faulty dimmer switch ( 4 days old).. Anyway he removed dimmer Y and wired it all up for me.

And I now have the number of an electrician close by, so I shouldn't ever be in this position again

Thanks so much though for all the help..

Tuco88

Happy_Harry wrote: »

When you say it is illegal to have 2 circuits in one wall plate, all electricty in my diagram is linked to one switch on the fuse board... But I guess you can have multiple circuits behind one fuse ?

As far as I can remember it's ok to have more than one circuit. As long as it has a label inside, 537.5.5.