Lord TSC wrote: » Here's what gets me about the "But the country is broke" attitude. Not just the increase TDs got in the budget, but the fact that during the entire election last time, FG were falling over themselves to promote the fact the country was back on track, the recession was over, everything was great again, etc etc. And now that people are saying "Ok, if everything is great, can we restore some of the lowered conditions", its back to "Oh hang on, the country is in trouble". It can't be both ways for the government. You don't get to promote the idea of the economy being fixed, and then when everyone says "Great, so...", throwing the hands up and saying that its not.
political analyst wrote: » Why not challenge the TDs' pay increase in the courts on the grounds of discrimination?
mirrorwall14 wrote: After a long chat between some teachers and non teachers last night I think they may have to do something like all teachers are timetabled for a 40 mins preparation class a week (not to be done collectively but properly on their timetable. We all plan during our frees anyway let's be realistic about it. That gets 22hrs done during the school year. Couple that with the PT meetings and staff meetings not in prior agreements and I think you are there.
Lord TSC wrote: » I mean, I'd have neither the money nor the knowledge of how to even start doing that.
political analyst wrote: » Then why don't the unions consider it?
km79 wrote: » stopped reading posts here early last night as it became infected with the After Hours teacher bashing brigade. Having thought about it more I think SC have been VERY smart in this. One strike day before break and the s and s directive not kicking in till first day after is smart. It shows we are serious but at the same time there is likely to be talks over the mud term and the threat of with drawal of s and s first day back will help focus minds at said meetings . Now it's the 7 days of proposes strikes imo where they have been very smart. Obviously this is a big threat to the govt BUT I also feel they are putting a bit of pressure on the membership too! If they come back with a "deal" it is likely to be more readily accepted by members not wanting to lose a week's wages before Xmas.............so minds are focussed now on all sides. This brings me to my final point ..........what kind of a deal do we expect or accept? It. ant just be LRA lite.....but it won't be too far from it or the govt risk opening the floodgates . in my opinion any deal MUST include 1. Proper pay equalisation for LPTs 2. Provision for payment of S and S 3. No attempt to bring back CP hours some movement on POR would also be desirable I don't think any reduction in pension levy (pay restoration ) is realistic tbh I'll be honest I don't and never have had a massive problem with s and s . In my opinion the supervision aspect of it anyway is something that I do voluntarily every day as I like to have a wander and a chat with the students at one of the breaks. I know this may not be a popular opinion but I think it really is a basic requirement of a teacher .......the subbing of course is a diff story but as someone involved in extra curricular I also understand the demands on. schools from this pov. So if we even got the 800 a year I'd see it as a bonus . Again not a popular opinion I suppose. Now the CP hours are a diff story. They are my "red line issue" . They serve NO PURPOSEThey don't save money . They are demoralising. I will not sign up to any agreement they form part of. what do ye think ?
implausible wrote: » The new JC arrangements reduce involved teachers' timetables by 40 mins, so that might work.
Danick wrote: » In future before people start to talk about the obvious perks of teaching - think about this - do we want bright motivated teachers teaching our children in the future?
Lord TSC wrote: » Danick wrote: » In future before people start to talk about the obvious perks of teaching - think about this - do we want bright motivated teachers teaching our children in the future? The sad fact is there's a healthy chunk of the general public who see teachers as little more than spoiled babysitters, not educators, and thus really don't care about them being "bright" and "motivated"
Lord TSC wrote: » The sad fact is there's a healthy chunk of the general public who see teachers as little more than spoiled babysitters, not educators, and thus really don't care about them being "bright" and "motivated"
mirrorwall14 wrote: » The s and s is easily sorted by allowing an opt out and paying for it. The NQT issue is a broader public service issue and I think the government as a whole are going to have to suck it up at this stage and layout a plan to restore everyone to one pay scale and allowances over the next few years. I honestly don't understand why they haven't done it already. It won't cost 2 billion, that figure includes pay restoration for all other public servants of pension levy and cuts etc. The government could fight those far more easily if they took the unfairness at the bottom of the scale so I do not understand it except that they want their money back and don't give a crap about new entrants. However the croke park hours are not as easy. Other civil servants are doing them (albeit that at least it's not detention and they are productive) so there needs to be some Jiggery poker by the government and unions on this one. After a long chat between some teachers and non teachers last night I think they may have to do something like all teachers are timetabled for a 40 mins preparation class a week (not to be done collectively but properly on their timetable. We all plan during our frees anyway let's be realistic about it. That gets 22hrs done during the school year. Couple that with the PT meetings and staff meetings not in prior agreements and I think you are there. That would allow the government the optics that we are still doing croke park hours the same as everyone else. It includes more class preparation in our number of hours worked which is no harm for future OECD reports and perceptions etc. It is stil non contact time. I think all teachers would prefer recognition of work we do rather than sitting in ridiculous meetings and it is the middle ground between breaking Landsdowne Road versus staying in.
Gebgbegb wrote: » Latest from Irish Times 'paper of record'. Dept is going to get the parents in... As principals and deputies get no ASTI derogation then the parents will effectively be running the show, (presume the secretary will be left with a few tips to pass on). I suppose, shur how hard can it be to supervise 30 teenagers in a class. Or a few hundred at lunch time.
mirrorwall14 wrote: » After a long chat between some teachers and non teachers last night I think they may have to do something like all teachers are timetabled for a 40 mins preparation class a week (not to be done collectively but properly on their timetable. We all plan during our frees anyway let's be realistic about it. That gets 22hrs done during the school year. Couple that with the PT meetings and staff meetings not in prior agreements and I think you are there. That would allow the government the optics that we are still doing croke park hours the same as everyone else. It includes more class preparation in our number of hours worked which is no harm for future OECD reports and perceptions etc. It is stil non contact time. I think all teachers would prefer recognition of work we do rather than sitting in ridiculous meetings and it is the middle ground between breaking Landsdowne Road versus staying in.
Mardy Bum wrote: » Bruton says we are going to be removed from the payroll if we go ahead with industrial action according to INDO. Cam someone please describe to me how we new teachers are getting a 22% pay increase when the only thing we got in LRA was 2000?
griffzinho wrote: » Mardy Bum wrote: » Bruton says we are going to be removed from the payroll if we go ahead with industrial action according to INDO. Cam someone please describe to me how we new teachers are getting a 22% pay increase when the only thing we got in LRA was 2000? 796 x 2 = 1592 supervision payment 1,000 under Lra next year 1,000 x 2 under Into and Tui deal 1,500 approx average increment per year in this period of Lra. That possibly totals approx 22% or more and is all in all and all very good during a 26/27 month period. Remember a lot of private sector employees get no increment.
Mardy Bum wrote: » The increment is what ever teacher gets and you have to work 600 hours to get so it has nothing to do with pay equalisation. My last increment was less than 800 euro. Yes in the private sector if you are good you get raises or move employer. You cannot do this as a teacher. Every teacher is entitled to s and s. I have been doing that for two years for nothing and was promised I'd be paid for it two years ago. None of this is pay equalisation apart from TUI INTO deal which reinforces two tier pay.
