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2017-21 help to buy scheme - megathread. All help to buy discussion here please

PedroDublin

Hello everyone, what do you think the purchase date mean on the new help to buy scheme? Contracts signed by buyers, contracts received, mortgage withdrawal, closing date..... I have seen different things on different news

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Michael D Not Higgins

pilly wrote: »

I was referring to a single person, sometimes they buy property too.

But you can only qualify for a rebate on what you can afford to get a mortgage for. A single person who qualifies for a mortgage for a 400k house has most likely paid more than 20k tax in the last year alone.

pilly

awec wrote: »

Also, I would guess that most mortgage applications are joint applications.

I reckon in the majority of cases they will qualify for the max 5% between the two people, probably with quite a bit to spare.

I was referring to a single person, sometimes they buy property too.

exaisle

This scheme is such a load of crap you'd need to be blind to not see the steam rising from it.

All it will do is put the cost of new builds up.

There are two ways of reducing property prices....increase supply or decrease demand. End of. The government (and presumably the geniuses in the department of finance) who thought this stupid scheme up should not meddle with supply and demand in a fairly open economy like ours. The market will find its own level and there are no short-term solutions. I'll just say that again...there are no short-term solutions. Solving the housing crisis is something that will have to be done over a generation by the provision of good quality local authority housing with long term tenants being given the option to buy after a certain period eg. 10 years. Sorry folks. In the meantime, many families will end up renting which is pretty much the norm in many areas of Europe.

The government should concentrate on providing good quality local authority housing like they used to before the boom/bust/boom.... That in turn will increase supply and allow prices to stabilise.

awec

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

You would need to have a salary of over 90k to qualify for the mortgage to get the 20k rebate. If you've been fully employed for the last 4 years around your current wage, you will most likely qualify for the max rebate on the max house price you will qualify for.

Also, I would guess that most mortgage applications are joint applications.

I reckon in the majority of cases they will qualify for the max 5% between the two people, probably with quite a bit to spare.

Michael D Not Higgins

pilly wrote: »

What a lot of people are missing out on this is the fact that it's a tax rebate so you have to have paid 20k tax to get that amount back. Now a lot of people on average wages will not have paid 20k tax over the last 4 years. And before anyone jumps down my throat I'm not including USC because the government doesn't classify that as PAYE which is essentially is.

You would need to have a salary of over 90k to qualify for the mortgage to get the 20k rebate. If you've been fully employed for the last 4 years around your current wage, you will most likely qualify for the max rebate on the max house price you will qualify for.

pilly

What a lot of people are missing out on this is the fact that it's a tax rebate so you have to have paid 20k tax to get that amount back. Now a lot of people on average wages will not have paid 20k tax over the last 4 years. And before anyone jumps down my throat I'm not including USC because the government doesn't classify that as PAYE which is essentially is.

pilly

KathleenF wrote: »

Has anyone more detail on the pro rata rates for lower priced homes?

It's 5% of the house price.

Glen_Quagmire

I understand what you're saying. I just think the whole thing is very frustrating, I understand mortgages were never easy to obtain going back through the years but for a person like myself and many others in my situation it's actually becoming impossible unless you are lucky enough to have a heap or savings built up (which is very difficult with high rents and cost of living) or help from family.

How the generations coming behind me are gonna be able to get mortgages for houses in Dublin in 5 or 10 years time is beyond me.

Michael D Not Higgins

Glen_Quagmire wrote: »

For me and I'm sure a lot of others like me who are looking to get onto the property ladder in Dublin as a single mortgage applicant, this scheme isn't much use as the price of new builds in Dublin are out of the price range of a single applicant unless you're earning over 100k a year.

Sorry Glen, but the government aren't targeting you. The cheapest new home on daft for Dublin is 195k which, with a 20% deposit, would need a single salary of 44.5k to qualify (and that's in Finglas just north of Ballymun).

The median household income in Ireland is 50k (figures a few years old, has probably gone up by now), in Dublin you could easily expect the average FTB couple looking to buy a house is closer to 70k+. With a 20% deposit they can afford a house just over 300k. This is the demographic the government are targeting.

Even with that, of the 186 new home listings for Dublin on Daft, only about 30 of them are in this imaginary couple's budget and some of those are already listed as sold out.

There are two things the government are targeting, the supply and the onerous deposit requirements. People are complaining since they say they can qualify for a mortgage on LTI but not on LTV, so the scheme gives them a leg up to satisfy the central bank rules. The supply is also an issue so the government are limiting it to new builds in an effort to stimulate construction.

In my opinion it's an okay short term fix but it doesn't solve the underlying issue of builders not building due to costs of construction. Likely this is a more difficult and medium term thing to address and they needed a short term process to help out. The real acid test will be what they do to address the supply in the medium to long term.

Glen_Quagmire

For me and I'm sure a lot of others like me who are looking to get onto the property ladder in Dublin as a single mortgage applicant, this scheme isn't much use as the price of new builds in Dublin are out of the price range of a single applicant unless you're earning over 100k a year.

Shelga

And I'm not saying I want special treatment, just not to be at a significant disadvantage compared to other first time buyers.

Shelga

Shedite27 wrote: »

There's enough people who stayed in Ireland, went through job cuts, wage freezes, rent hikes and tax increases that need to be helped out first. This does that.

We'll get around to your welcome home invite any day now.

No need to be such a smug martyr, all I'm saying is there are people like me and my friends who really want to come home and feel no incentive to do so, thought you would have wanted more of us to pay tax.

Yes the tax subsidy suggestion for returning emigrants was daft, wouldn't have affected most people anyway who are medium earners.

Michael D Not Higgins

Konata wrote: »

Does the money HAVE to go towards a deposit? We are limited by the 3.5 income multiplier and have saved hard to put together the money to make up the rest of the balance - right now we are looking at an 85% LTV. If we add on the money from the tax rebate we are going to be at 79% LTV - so then we wouldn't be entitled to the rebate?? So could we just keep the rebate for furnishing etc.?

Reading back over that, I'm also wondering is the limit 80% LTV BEFORE you take into account the tax rebate or AFTER? That would be the key question for us I think (as all would be fine if it is before the rebate is counted).

Yes the money has to go on the deposit and it has to be less than 20% deposit including the rebate. If you're buying this year before the scheme is launched you can buy up to 20% with your own money and get the 5% back when it launches.

If you buy next year, you can have a max deposit of 15% with the max rebate of 5%.

December2012

garbo196 wrote: »

I am absolutely gutted with the outcome of yesterday. Myself and my girlfriend bought a house off the plans back in April. We signed the contracts in May on our side, and the builder's solicitors signed on their side on July 15th. We do not qualify for the tax rebate since the contracts were signed before 19th July. We missed out on this by 4 days.
What annoys me the most is the fact that we have only signed contracts, we have not bought a house, it is not ours, we have not drawn down any money, anything could happen between now and then.
It should vbe backdated to July 19th for those who have actually drawn down and bought a house and who the keys.

4 days short of getting 15k to furnish our first home.

Does anyone have any suggestions on an appeal for this? Should I contact any local TDs or anything? We both have been working full time for the last 4 years and have paid well enough tax. Its sickening. And I am sure we are not the only ones in this position,

Why not ask the builders if the date on the contract can be amended? It's no loss to them so it may be suitable.

brian2614

brian2614 wrote: »

This is my situation...

I bought my 1st house this year,new build @ €150K(obviously I don't live in Dublin) paid my deposit of €15K and signed after the 19 of July I think(waiting on solicitor to get back to me)

Is it from the moment you sign and get the keys in your hand or when the morgagte is drawn down

Am I entitled to this???

Thanks in advance

Got a fone call from my solicitor this evening to say I am entitled to the rebate... Just.I signed on the 19th!!!

I thought I signed earlier but was hoping I didn't.For once I am getting something off this <snip > government.

mick_ire

cronos wrote: »

Indeed but what's to stop you going with the 80 percent LTV? Then just overpaying the rest immediately?

I would assume the higher interest rate would have to be paid on the rest of the mortgage, even though you would be less that the 80% if you overpay immediately? I'd say any benefit would be negligible.

cronos

mick_ire wrote: »

The 80% LTV is a load of BS. Penalising responsible savers. The banks are the ones benefiting as they charge customers a higher interest rate for higher LTV. This is encouraging people to save the bare deposit. I guess that is no shock given that the government have a vested interest in the banks :-O

Indeed but what's to stop you going with the 80 percent LTV? Then just overpaying the rest immediately?

mick_ire

The 80% LTV is a load of BS. Penalising responsible savers. The banks are the ones benefiting as they charge customers a higher interest rate for higher LTV. This is encouraging people to save the bare deposit. I guess that is no shock given that the government have a vested interest in the banks :-O

dzwx

Konata wrote: »

Does the money HAVE to go towards a deposit? We are limited by the 3.5 income multiplier and have saved hard to put together the money to make up the rest of the balance - right now we are looking at an 85% LTV. If we add on the money from the tax rebate we are going to be at 79% LTV - so then we wouldn't be entitled to the rebate?? So could we just keep the rebate for furnishing etc.?

Reading back over that, I'm also wondering is the limit 80% LTV BEFORE you take into account the tax rebate or AFTER? That would be the key question for us I think (as all would be fine if it is before the rebate is counted).

We are in similar situation, we have a nice strong deposit but we are limited badly by LTI rule (commision based jobs).
Does it mean that scheme won't be any good at all?

ted1

garbo196 wrote: »

I am absolutely gutted with the outcome of yesterday. Myself and my girlfriend bought a house off the plans back in April. We signed the contracts in May on our side, and the builder's solicitors signed on their side on July 15th. We do not qualify for the tax rebate since the contracts were signed before 19th July. We missed out on this by 4 days.
What annoys me the most is the fact that we have only signed contracts, we have not bought a house, it is not ours, we have not drawn down any money, anything could happen between now and then.
It should vbe backdated to July 19th for those who have actually drawn down and bought a house and who the keys.

4 days short of getting 15k to furnish our first home.

Does anyone have any suggestions on an appeal for this? Should I contact any local TDs or anything? We both have been working full time for the last 4 years and have paid well enough tax. Its sickening. And I am sure we are not the only ones in this position,

If you have only signed the contract , are you sure that they have being filed? Call your builder ASAP..

For what it's worth I know people that had to pay 46k stamp duty 3 days before it was abolished

AtomicHorror

Shedite27 wrote: »

I wasn't attacking, I was trying to be a voice of reason. I'm a buyer of a new build in May that would have been eligible had I closed today.

Fair enough, and if that's your meaning then no problem. Most people's initial reaction will not be so rational, so they might read your response and others here as dismissive.

Shedite27 wrote: »

Congrats to those that will get the money, who cares if you didn't get it. Yes I'd like €20k back in a rebate, but it wasn't money I was expecting. It's like being disappointed that you didn't win the lotto tonight.

I don't think these two things are alike at all, for many reasons. But your point was already clear enough. We have "lost" something we never had. That fact will help people in hindsight, but their initial reaction will tend to be disappointment.

Shedite27

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I think most of us who were on the line understand this fact, and even recognise that feeling disappointed is not rational. It does not make that feeling magically disappear, nor does it mean people shouldn't express it.

The announcement back in July was vague enough to give reasonable hope to plenty of people who would not ultimately benefit. When you've recently bought a house, money looms large in your life, perhaps even more so than it did in the challenging time before you bought. Lot of worry. You probably know this. When a chance at relief does not pan out, disappointment is entirely understandable. Give us a break.

I wasn't attacking, I was trying to be a voice of reason. I'm a buyer of a new build in May that would have been eligible had I closed today.

I hope nobody bought expecting some money back.

Congrats to those that will get the money, who cares if you didn't get it. Yes I'd like €20k back in a rebate, but it wasn't money I was expecting. It's like being disappointed that you didn't win the lotto tonight.

Konata

Does the money HAVE to go towards a deposit? We are limited by the 3.5 income multiplier and have saved hard to put together the money to make up the rest of the balance - right now we are looking at an 85% LTV. If we add on the money from the tax rebate we are going to be at 79% LTV - so then we wouldn't be entitled to the rebate?? So could we just keep the rebate for furnishing etc.?

Reading back over that, I'm also wondering is the limit 80% LTV BEFORE you take into account the tax rebate or AFTER? That would be the key question for us I think (as all would be fine if it is before the rebate is counted).

awec

CT2 wrote: »

I've asked my bank this today, but any advice in the interim would be great.

Can you draw down a mortgage of 15% deposit plus the 5% from your Tax to make 80% this side of January 2017 as I plan to close next month.
or
Can you draw down a mortgage with 20% and then claim the tax back next year or would this put you over the 20% limit.
Could I borrow the 5% shortfall to achieve this for the new year.

The bank will give you a better interest if you have a LTV of 80%. But will you get this if its 15% in November and the 5% in the new year.

My understanding would be you get a mortgage with 20% now and then claim back the money next year.

CT2

I've asked my bank this today, but any advice in the interim would be great.

Can you draw down a mortgage of 15% deposit plus the 5% from your Tax to make 80% this side of January 2017 as I plan to close next month.
or
Can you draw down a mortgage with 20% and then claim the tax back next year or would this put you over the 20% limit.
Could I borrow the 5% shortfall to achieve this for the new year.

The bank will give you a better interest if you have a LTV of 80%. But will you get this if its 15% in November and the 5% in the new year.

AtomicHorror

Shedite27 wrote: »

You didn't have €15k yesterday, you don't have €15k today.

Lost nothing.

I think most of us who were on the line understand this fact, and even recognise that feeling disappointed is not rational. It does not make that feeling magically disappear, nor does it mean people shouldn't express it.

The announcement back in July was vague enough to give reasonable hope to plenty of people who would not ultimately benefit. When you've recently bought a house, money looms large in your life, perhaps even more so than it did in the challenging time before you bought. Lot of worry. You probably know this. When a chance at relief does not pan out, disappointment is entirely understandable. Give us a break.

quadrifoglio verde

ted1 wrote: »

That's how the system has always worked , the 2nd and 3rd phases always go up

Except when there's to much supply.

Then you get it less than phase 1.

This is partly designed to help people circumvent central bank rules is it not?
What's to stop the central bank from altering the rules to take into account this new move from government?

Shedite27

garbo196 wrote: »

I am absolutely gutted with the outcome of yesterday. Myself and my girlfriend bought a house off the plans back in April. We signed the contracts in May on our side, and the builder's solicitors signed on their side on July 15th. We do not qualify for the tax rebate since the contracts were signed before 19th July. We missed out on this by 4 days.
What annoys me the most is the fact that we have only signed contracts, we have not bought a house, it is not ours, we have not drawn down any money, anything could happen between now and then.
It should vbe backdated to July 19th for those who have actually drawn down and bought a house and who the keys.

4 days short of getting 15k to furnish our first home.

Does anyone have any suggestions on an appeal for this? Should I contact any local TDs or anything? We both have been working full time for the last 4 years and have paid well enough tax. Its sickening. And I am sure we are not the only ones in this position,

You didn't have €15k yesterday, you don't have €15k today.

Lost nothing.

[Deleted User]

garbo196 wrote: »

I am absolutely gutted with the outcome of yesterday. Myself and my girlfriend bought a house off the plans back in April. We signed the contracts in May on our side, and the builder's solicitors signed on their side on July 15th. We do not qualify for the tax rebate since the contracts were signed before 19th July. We missed out on this by 4 days.
What annoys me the most is the fact that we have only signed contracts, we have not bought a house, it is not ours, we have not drawn down any money, anything could happen between now and then.
It should vbe backdated to July 19th for those who have actually drawn down and bought a house and who the keys.

4 days short of getting 15k to furnish our first home.

Does anyone have any suggestions on an appeal for this? Should I contact any local TDs or anything? We both have been working full time for the last 4 years and have paid well enough tax. Its sickening. And I am sure we are not the only ones in this position,

Its sickening but they have to draw the line somewhere and it will always mean people are disappointed. Back date it to the start of June and people who singed in May will complain. Back date it to the start of the year and people who bought in December will complain etc.

garbo196

I am absolutely gutted with the outcome of yesterday. Myself and my girlfriend bought a house off the plans back in April. We signed the contracts in May on our side, and the builder's solicitors signed on their side on July 15th. We do not qualify for the tax rebate since the contracts were signed before 19th July. We missed out on this by 4 days.
What annoys me the most is the fact that we have only signed contracts, we have not bought a house, it is not ours, we have not drawn down any money, anything could happen between now and then.
It should vbe backdated to July 19th for those who have actually drawn down and bought a house and who the keys.

4 days short of getting 15k to furnish our first home.

Does anyone have any suggestions on an appeal for this? Should I contact any local TDs or anything? We both have been working full time for the last 4 years and have paid well enough tax. Its sickening. And I am sure we are not the only ones in this position,