RAILWAY PRESERVATION

A few pictures of the doomed Great Southern Railway Preservation Society project.

During 1987/88 the society's working members were totally committed to recovering sleepers from the Mallow Beet Factory sidings - a dangerous, futile task as the sleepers ended up on the Fenit line. The Steam crane in the picture is now 'displayed' inthe station car park at Mallow.

On the 14th May, 1989 CIE removed most of the society's rolling stock from Mallow to Rathpeacon with no prior consultation. Within a few weeks the stock was fit for scrap which it duly was within a couple of years.

Mallow shed was demolished to make way for the new car park at the station. The end.

hurricanemk1c wrote: »

To preserve - to keep alive or in existence; make lasting.

Hmm, so a 1949 steam loco, a 1952 ESB loco and a 1958 Bord na Mona loco in service isn't preservation? In reality, industrial railways were a real mixture of purpose built, rebuilt and knocked together stock.

If we are going "whole hog" and re-creating exactly what happened 20-50-100 years ago, I would expect the Bluebell to refurbish the Mark 1 and 2 stock they have to get rid of the modern lighting, ETH cabling, only run stock that actually ran over that route, one era (so no BR Standards running beside Victorian stock in Victorian colours) - the list goes on and on. The aim of all railways is to make money, and that regularly involves historical sacrifice (such as Thomas events).

As has been said, the main market isn't die hard rivet counters but ordinary folk who want a train ride. The number of people who don't know BnM have a railway system is amazing and they learn something. Isn't that more worthwhile that pandering to every miniscule historical accuracy?

Okay. you're clearly put out that I called Stradbally 'a plaything' but that's clearly what it is. That said, I'm not trying to take away from it or the activities of its working members.

However, your nonsense about the Bluebell is just that. Most preserved railways across the water take their heritage very seriously, understand that the general public don't have the same level of interest but realise that they are needed to pay for their operation. They cater for them without ignoring their historic equipment which, in the case of most enthusiasts, is the reason they get involved in the first place.

hurricanemk1c

savagethegoat wrote: »

welcome to the Forum. The two railways you mention actually have little to do with Railway Preservation, commendable though they are.

To preserve - to keep alive or in existence; make lasting.

Hmm, so a 1949 steam loco, a 1952 ESB loco and a 1958 Bord na Mona loco in service isn't preservation? In reality, industrial railways were a real mixture of purpose built, rebuilt and knocked together stock.

If we are going "whole hog" and re-creating exactly what happened 20-50-100 years ago, I would expect the Bluebell to refurbish the Mark 1 and 2 stock they have to get rid of the modern lighting, ETH cabling, only run stock that actually ran over that route, one era (so no BR Standards running beside Victorian stock in Victorian colours) - the list goes on and on. The aim of all railways is to make money, and that regularly involves historical sacrifice (such as Thomas events).

As has been said, the main market isn't die hard rivet counters but ordinary folk who want a train ride. The number of people who don't know BnM have a railway system is amazing and they learn something. Isn't that more worthwhile that pandering to every miniscule historical accuracy?

Del.Monte wrote: »

Crossed wires - I was talking about the original project. The reason that the current one will not succeed is that local vested interests will not let them in - same as the first time.

that's it exactly. The people who failed the first time around haven't gone away as they say

[Deleted User]

I don't think rural Ireland has the population density or interest to maintain many preserved rail lines. I imagine it takes a lot of time and money to keep them going.

I don't think we have as great an attachment to railways as in more densely populated countries.

Contrast that with say the vintage tractor movements - something people have a direct connection with from their past, can be done individually.

savagethegoat wrote: »

well it wasn't zero,and still isn't , but not enough enthusiast input and too much influence by people who know nothing about railways.

Crossed wires - I was talking about the original project. The reason that the current one will not succeed is that local vested interests will not let them in - same as the first time.

well it wasn't zero,and still isn't , but not enough enthusiast input and too much influence by people who know nothing about railways.

savagethegoat wrote: »

It should be a winner Del....original loco on original route with stunning scenery and a ship canal parallel, next to a stunning rebuilt windmill and a wetlands project on the main road to Dingle and with the Rose of Tralee on the doorstep each year. Why isn't it?

Zero enthusiast involvement. It's been proven time and again that to stand a chance of success it must be enthusiast driven not an AnCO/FAS scheme.

savagethegoat wrote: »

It should be a winner Del....original loco on original route with stunning scenery and a ship canal parallel, next to a stunning rebuilt windmill and a wetlands project on the main road to Dingle and with the Rose of Tralee on the doorstep each year. Why isn't it?

Because people didn't care and didn't value it enough. I think they don't even miss it.

I doubt if any of the inhabitants kicked up a fuss when it closed, or wrote letters to the paper, their TD or councillor.
Now if it was planning permission, or the state of the roads it would be a different matter.

It should be a winner Del....original loco on original route with stunning scenery and a ship canal parallel, next to a stunning rebuilt windmill and a wetlands project on the main road to Dingle and with the Rose of Tralee on the doorstep each year. Why isn't it?

whisky_galore wrote: »

^^ There is a huge following in England (remember the whole Little Trains of Wales thing was kicked off by English, not Welsh 'cranks')
For anyone not au fait with the whole thing over there, full size main line steam locos are being crowd-funded and built from scratch in the 21st century, as far as I know this doesn't happen in any other country.

Agreed, but there is huge interest in Irish railways in the UK too - as evidenced by the formation of the Irish Traction Group - and this has never been properly tapped into. Operations like Blennerville have put a lot of people off getting involved in Ireland.

^^ There is a huge following in England (remember the whole Little Trains of Wales thing was kicked off by English, not Welsh 'cranks')
For anyone not au fait with the whole thing over there, full size main line steam locos are being crowd-funded and built from scratch in the 21st century, as far as I know this doesn't happen in any other country.

that was suggested recently!

contrast with the following . Shut since the 1930s, original coaches sourced and rebuilt, ditto original station, suitable locos sourced and a replica of original loco being built

flyingsnail wrote: »

I think people need to realise and accept this, you are never going to run a railway here based on enthusiasts, to make money you need to sell to the public. The simple fact is that without money you are going nowhere, so commercial facts have to take precedent over what enthusiasts want.

However, if you're not going for an authentic recreation why bother at all? Left to their own devices, as the Clonakilty Model Railway Village and the Blennerville people were, and this is the outcome.

BLEN%2Bold%2Bstation.jpg

Blennerville Station prior to restoration. The old platform was still in situ as were all the mile posts in as far as Tralee. All now gone.

BLEN%2Bnew%2Bstation.jpg

The 'new' Blennerville station with standard gauge height platform topped off with CIE/Euro cobble is a travesty.

BLEN%2B2.jpg

As for the outsized carriages with their domestic door handles and ghastly interiors.

The carriages dwarfed poor old 5T as lampooned on this rare postcard.

Why not go the full hog, tar over the trackbed and put a theme park type road train on it.

whisky_galore wrote: »

Esp. landowners are notorious and anyone suspicious of 'blow-ins' which is a feature of rural Ireland.

unless they can get enough monetary "compensation" from the project.

savagethegoat wrote: »

some of them actually stand in the way of it.

Parents of Young Families here are easily disposed alright to make 'Health & Safety' complaints. And they're always "right"

"but poor Tommy got such a bad fright from the hissing steam"

savagethegoat wrote: »

some of them actually stand in the way of it.

Esp. landowners are notorious and anyone suspicious of 'blow-ins' which is a feature of rural Ireland.

some of them actually stand in the way of it.

I think the public here have a mindset that such things would be lovely, provided someone else did the work and stumped up the cash, that is the situ with heritage as a whole, not just railways.

All well disposed to the idea and good intentions and that's it.

The govt/board of works/county council/CIE/*insert name here* should do something.

flyingsnail

5rtytry56 wrote: »

more precisely most of the Irish public don't care to tell the difference....great day out for little Tommy

I think people need to realise and accept this, you are never going to run a railway here based on enthusiasts, to make money you need to sell to the public. The simple fact is that without money you are going nowhere, so commercial facts have to take precedent over what enthusiasts want.

whisky_galore wrote: »

many of the Irish public could tell the difference anyway as they're all 'choo-choo trains' and 'Thomas the Tanks' to them...even diesels...

more precisely most of the Irish public don't care to tell the difference....great day out for little Tommy

I agree , without wishing to take away from the success they do enjoy. It's just it doesn't educate anyone as to how the Railway used to be, which is the whole point to me.

savagethegoat wrote: »

welcome to the Forum. The two railways you mention actually have little to do with Railway Preservation, commendable though they are.

Yes, unlike sites in the uk where the attention to period detail is like stepping onto a movie set, Stradbally and the Waterford line are a collection of random ex-industrial items and new-built stock pressed into passenger carrying which they never did in their operating life..although I doubt that many of the Irish public could tell the difference anyway as they're all 'choo-choo trains' and 'Thomas the Tanks' to them...even diesels...

hurricanemk1c wrote: »

May I ask a question? How many here have actually been involved in the preservation movement here? It is very easy to deride and down-play the roles of groups when you have nothing to do with them (or even that area). The two main failings behind all of the groups that didn't make it was money and people. Both lack of money and lack of people as well as some unsuited people who power went to their heads or had a closed shop attitude to fresh blood

It's interesting to note that the two railways mentioned earlier, "the 'plaything' at Stradbally" and "the strange incarnation which is the Waterford & Suir Valley Railway" are the only regularly operating preserved railways in the Republic of Ireland that are a reasonable commercial success, as well as attracting young volunteers. Both have active social media accounts as well. Dromod is currently in a state of flux due to track work issues, T&D not operating, West Clare no-one really knows, Fintown is beautiful but remote (like WCR). However the efforts of those at those locations (Carrick-on-Suir is a workshop base rather than a railway) should be commended, with a lot of items preserved that would otherwise have disappeared many decades ago.

welcome to the Forum. The two railways you mention actually have little to do with Railway Preservation, commendable though they are.

Sinkyou

These people have an Axe to Grind. The have a second Agenda.

hurricanemk1c wrote: »

as well as some unsuited people who power went to their heads or had a closed shop attitude to fresh blood

- a blight in Ireland unfortunately, which affects the Irish hobby scene as well. To illustrate my point, this veers slightly off topic but here goes: There have been a number of Model Railways open to the public over the past number of years. Some are quite successful like the Fry model railway. ....And then there is the Model Railway located outside Dublin which was featured on Nationwide in 2013. I visited it on one occasion. I tried to visit it later again, only to be told when I arrived that it was closed early that day. Their facebook page has'nt been updated for ages either.

that's my spake.

hurricanemk1c

May I ask a question? How many here have actually been involved in the preservation movement here? It is very easy to deride and down-play the roles of groups when you have nothing to do with them (or even that area). The two main failings behind all of the groups that didn't make it was money and people. Both lack of money and lack of people as well as some unsuited people who power went to their heads or had a closed shop attitude to fresh blood

It's interesting to note that the two railways mentioned earlier, "the 'plaything' at Stradbally" and "the strange incarnation which is the Waterford & Suir Valley Railway" are the only regularly operating preserved railways in the Republic of Ireland that are a reasonable commercial success, as well as attracting young volunteers. Both have active social media accounts as well. Dromod is currently in a state of flux due to track work issues, T&D not operating, West Clare no-one really knows, Fintown is beautiful but remote (like WCR). However the efforts of those at those locations (Carrick-on-Suir is a workshop base rather than a railway) should be commended, with a lot of items preserved that would otherwise have disappeared many decades ago.

Bit of background about West of Ireland Steam Railway Association below. Very optimistic stuff. WISRA was a shambles long before the 'shadowy' influences mentioned earlier, and one of the biggest fiascos was the infamous raffle for tickets for James Sherwood's newly launched "Orient Express". As far as I know the draw never took place as the cost of the prize tickets was astronomical. The Association then resorted to selling rubber noses to the few people who sought out their shop at Attymon Junction.

Meanwhile they failed to attract a single member from Loughrea which was quite an achievement given how hard the town fought to keep the railway over the previous twenty years. The few volunteers, myself included traveled miles to Attymon whereas local support was thin on the ground. We soon saw the light and left them to their own devices.

When the new regime took over there was a great deal of 'messing' on the branch which, in one incident, is supposed to have triggered the Galway Major Accident Plan! I'll say no more...

some fascinating detail emerging which we can probably learn from. Thx people