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Child Item

Abortion Discussion, Part Trois

PopePalpatine

I didn't know whether to post this here or in the Sanctimony of Pro-Lifers thread in t'udder forum - a BBC article on Paraguay's "epidemic" of child pregnancies. Paraguay only allows for abortion if the mother's life is at risk. On average, two girls aged 14 and under become pregnant in Paraguay every day.

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frostyjacks

It's amusing to see abortionists try and claim the moral high ground here. They want rights to be ripped out of the constitution, so they can rip babies out of the womb. They ignore the psychological trauma and depression women feel after an abortion They are encouraging women to be promiscuous; thereby increasing the spread of STDs and also limiting the chances of women being in a truly happy, loving relationship. They are being led a merry dance by some sinister billionaire puppetmaster on the other side of the world. And they feel smug about all this? Like the pro-life people are the bad guys? The country is going to hell in a handcart.

eviltwin

frostyjacks wrote: »

It's amusing to see abortionists try and claim the moral high ground here. They want rights to be ripped out of the constitution, so they can rip babies out of the womb. They ignore the psychological trauma and depression women feel after an abortion They are encouraging women to be promiscuous; thereby increasing the spread of STDs and also limiting the chances of women being in a truly happy, loving relationship. They are being led a merry dance by some sinister billionaire puppetmaster on the other side of the world. And they feel smug about all this? Like the pro-life people are the bad guys? The country is going to hell in a handcart.

What depression and trauma would this be then ?

Ineedaname

Delirium wrote: »

so, you're a pro-life group and you attempt to pose as pro-choice marchers to attempt to generate negative sentiment for the pro-choice side of the debate.

Unfortunately, you get snapped and picture is posted to the interweb. your "cunning" plan has been exposed.

What now? do you abandon your original plan?

Hell, no! you double-down!!

https://twitter.com/TeilHarder/status/780796079767969793

Did anyone read their Facebook page? Even some other Pro Lifers called them out on it.

Needless to say the comments have since mysteriously disappeared.

aloyisious

frostyjacks wrote: »

It's amusing to see abortionists try and claim the moral high ground here. They want rights to be ripped out of the constitution, so they can rip babies out of the womb. They ignore the psychological trauma and depression women feel after an abortion They are encouraging women to be promiscuous; thereby increasing the spread of STDs and also limiting the chances of women being in a truly happy, loving relationship. They are being led a merry dance by some sinister billionaire puppetmaster on the other side of the world. And they feel smug about all this? Like the pro-life people are the bad guys? The country is going to hell in a handcart.

It seem's to me that you are trying to retain what you see as the moral high ground by trying to prevent the 1983 referendum result being revisited by the Irish voters. You seem happy with the way the Irish voters voted back then but don't trust them now.

Re Pro-life people, male and female, they are seen as bad guys because they are insisting that ALL Irish Female Citizens MUST comply with what they decree, the same as you above.

You seem happy to ignore the trauma and depression women are forced to undergo by you when they decide they want an abortion here but are ignored and forced to go abroad for one, all the while under threat of legal sanction here in their own country. BTW, this also includes women who reside here but are NOT Irish citizens.

Your reference to promiscuity amongst women who have abortions is more than misleading. I'd call it a flashback to the time when women were called loose and fallen if they didn't behave in a fashion decreed and forced on them (mostly) by men. Ditto the reference to what are now called STD's.

Re the sinister puppetmaster you refer to on the other side of the world, the USA, would you view the other US citizen, Tom Monaghan, funding the anti-abortion side, equally as sinister?

Re being smug, I reckon you mistake that complaint for the smiles on your fellow citizen-voters faces when A: they show that it is OK to trust irish women with deciding their own futures, and B: the smile on Irish women's faces when they realize they are being trusted on that by a lot of their fellow citizen-voters.

One group of irish women often mentioned when it comes to the ability to make a choice on abortions are rape victims. The instant image that comes to mind is that of a woman randomly chosen by a man or boy for sex. There is another version of that: a lesbian chosen for "corrective-treatment" - aka rape -by a man who know's the woman is lesbian. Under the 8th, no victim of rape can escape from the chance result of impregnation due to rape.

The 8th also affects other irish citizens, our fellow transgender citizens. Not all F to M transgender people go through with a full sex-change operation, some retain their womb and vaginas and are fully capable of being impregnated. They have NO right to an abortion.

Anti-abortion women's right to decide what they want to do with their bodies will NOT disappear should the 8th amendment be voted on and a decision is made to delete it from our constitution, which is completely the reverse of the present situation for their fellow Irish women citizens.

Most Pro-abortion rights people here know that there will be a very strong fight for the hearts and minds of our fellow voters here on the abortion-rights issue, as do the Anti-abortion people. I reckon you know and accept that to be a fact as evidenced by your "The country is going to hell in a handcart" comment.

Cabaal

frostyjacks wrote: »

It's amusing to see abortionists try and claim the moral high ground here. They want rights to be ripped out of the constitution, so they can rip babies out of the womb. They ignore the psychological trauma and depression women feel after an abortion They are encouraging women to be promiscuous; thereby increasing the spread of STDs and also limiting the chances of women being in a truly happy, loving relationship. They are being led a merry dance by some sinister billionaire puppetmaster on the other side of the world. And they feel smug about all this? Like the pro-life people are the bad guys? The country is going to hell in a handcart.

You're dead right frostyjacks, we're all going to hell,
It all started to go to hell when being ghey was no longer illegal, then they allowed them to get married!!!!1
:rolleyes:

nozzferrahhtoo

frostyjacks wrote: »

It's amusing to see abortionists try and claim the moral high ground here. They want rights to be ripped out of the constitution, so they can rip babies out of the womb.

You do not appear to have an argument here at all. Just emotive words you hope will do the argument for you.

frostyjacks wrote: »

They ignore the psychological trauma and depression women feel after an abortion

Quite the contrary, as per usual when you go around telling us what we think rather than listening to us tell you what we think. Just about every person advocating for choice on abortion that I have met do so while also saying they want women to be AS INFORMED AS POSSIBLE before making the choice and AS SUPPORTED AS POSSIBLE before during and after making it.

Sorry if the facts of reality get in the way of the fantasy hate narrative you want to perpetrate though. Facts are inconvenient like that for you I know.

frostyjacks wrote: »

They are encouraging women to be promiscuous; thereby increasing the spread of STDs and also limiting the chances of women being in a truly happy, loving relationship.

More manufactured propaganda narrative that is, as above, yet again the exact opposite of reality. Pro Choice campaigners are also by far majorly in favor of any and all initiatives that reduce STDs and also reduce the requirements for abortion at all.

For the average Pro Choice Campaigner the idea world is one where 100% of women have the choice of abortion but 0% of them actually use it. Your manufactured nonsense is the equivalent of saying "Because you want everyone to be able to get heart bypass when they need one, you are actively encouraging them to eat greasy deep fried food!".

And where you pulled "limiting the chances of a truly happy loving relationship" from I do not know, but I strongly suspect it is an orifice not normally associated with communication. We are campaigning to give women choices, and through use of their choices THEY decide how and when to enter into the relationship THEY want to be in. It would appear your definition of "A truly happy loving relationship" is "One that conforms entirely to the parameters I decree for them". And you can lose that high horse right now, because no one is likely to buy it.

frostyjacks wrote: »

They are being led a merry dance by some sinister billionaire puppetmaster on the other side of the world.

Ahhhh no good rant is complete without a "Dark Faceless Elite" conspiracy narrative is it. All you need to complete your picture is some Doomsayer rhetoric. Oh wait.....

frostyjacks wrote: »

The country is going to hell in a handcart.

..... there it is. True to form. What your post did NOT contain however is a SINGLE argument against the ethics and morality of the forms of abortion most pro-choice campaigners are actually campaigning for. Perhaps you simply forgot in your fetid drooling need to fall over yourself making up things about them that are entirely opposite to what they actually think, feel, and espouse?

Delirium

Ineedaname wrote: »

Did anyone read their Facebook page? Even some other Pro Lifers called them out on it.

Needless to say the comments have since mysteriously disappeared.

Yep. Was good to see some pro-life people calling YD out on their nonsense.

aloyisious

@drostyjack: I got to thinking last night about sexual congress, pregnancies, babies, abortion and the 8th, and your apparent position on them. The next are some "what-if" questions for you to answer or ignore according to your choice, supposing you are a man in a married heterosexual relationship and you and your wife have had a baby/babies.

Edit.....I deleted the questions, but my motivations still remains. Would your opposition to abortion hewe be on RC religious moral grounds or plain moral grounds? There is a difference between both.

The current ban on abortion here was majorly voted in by people under the sway of the RC church, regardless of the fact that people from other faiths, and no faiths, here opposed to abortion here voted the 8th amendment into law in 1982.

The current situation is that that vote result probably would NOT happen now, given how the eyes, and the opinions, of the voter have been opened in regard to the actual morality and truthfulness of said RC church.

The 8th, as it currently stands, is, in effect a change majorly brought in on RC Church moral statement grounds. It, regardless of the intent and (as I said) beliefs/non-belief of the people who voted it in, is the same as an RC church ordinance. I doubt that you would willingly agree to another religion/faith having such a sway on the voters here where it came to making changes to our constitution (and your personal belief rights) in line with that major religion/faith base belief, a la the Islamic Republic of Iran, as such a power would more end with our republic being a quasi-theocratic republic (which I now see it was for several decades).

aloyisious

Not such a nice item on BBC1 TV news about how pregnant women in Chile have to go about getting abortions, as abortions are illegal there. The new Chilean President is trying to get a bill through parliament allowing for abortion in the case of FFA and rape. The church, according to the report, is not for the bill.

Delirium

some pro-life vandalism in Cork....

https://twitter.com/AndreaMurray67/status/781418582890713088

Cabaal

Delirium wrote: »

some pro-life vandalism in Cork....

https://twitter.com/AndreaMurray67/status/781418582890713088

Next stop, death threats and setting fire to property. Totally inline with where they get their funding from so it won't be a surprise

Cabaal

Briefcase wanker is back in the news

http://www.thejournal.ie/ronan-mullen-abortion-article-3007283-Oct2016/

Rónán Mullen says he doesn't believe aborted foetuses are 'debris'
The Senator says he was referring to the attitude of abortion providers.

Surely an aborted fetus is medical waste if anything?

[Deleted User]

Doesn’t that sad little story, in which a sick unborn baby was denied the dignity of being allowed to reach a natural end, illustrate how heartless abortion providers are?

If anyone ever spots the good Senator making use of any medicine whatsoever could they remind him of this titbit?

Cabaal

Deleted User wrote: »

If anyone ever spots the good Senator making use of any medicine whatsoever could they remind him of this titbit?

Natural end's eh?
I guess when people are sick we should allow them to die a natural death, no medical treatment as that would unnaturally prolong their life

If we treat them they'd live unnaturally older and then we'll keep them alive for days, weeks, months or even years on end in pain and agony before finally their body gives up...even when the patient doesn't want to remain in pain unnaturally for so long.

We don't want any of that happen, its unnatural!

[Deleted User]

Very Mother Theresan

keane2097

Shouldn't even give oxygen to that ****weasel tbf.

Cabaal

Further to the graffiti in Cork

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/10/03/meanwhile-in-cork-58/

The "pro-life" crowd are now protesting outside the office in Cork

aloyisious

Cabaal wrote: »

Briefcase wanker is back in the news

http://www.thejournal.ie/ronan-mullen-abortion-article-3007283-Oct2016/

Surely an aborted fetus is medical waste if anything?

Devastatingly thick comment and not (presumably) one off the cuff as it was part of his self-penned article. I hope those parents and families whose misfortune he was commenting on have better local public representatives than he.

Hotblack Desiato

If only his political career, such as it is, would reach its natural end...

smacl

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

If only his political career, such as it is, would reach its natural end...

I suspect his head is wedged pretty firmly up his natural end and has been for some time now

aloyisious

From The irish Examiner... http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/four-men-hold-anti-abortion-protest-outside-cork-tds-office-757539.html

fran17

aloyisious wrote: »

From The irish Examiner... http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/four-men-hold-anti-abortion-protest-outside-cork-tds-office-757539.html

Those posters are rather amateur,they clearly don't have access to George Soros's piggybank.
But an important issue is raised none the less,what role would the child's father play if legal access to abortion was to become an issue in Ireland.Be it a planned or an unplanned pregnancy the male still has equal responsibility in relation to the child's conception no?

Delirium

fran17 wrote: »

Those posters are rather amateur,they clearly don't have access to George Soros's piggybank.
But an important issue is raised none the less,what role would the child's father play if legal access to abortion was to become an issue in Ireland.Be it a planned or an unplanned pregnancy the male still has equal responsibility in relation to the child's conception no?

are you suggesting, for example, that if a father objects to the abortion it should superced the wishes of the pregnant woman?

PopePalpatine

fran17 wrote: »

Those posters are rather amateur,they clearly don't have access to George Soros's piggybank.

Oh noes, is Tom Monaghan's Legatus money drying up? Are you lot not going to be able to afford parking your billboards outside rape crisis centres any more?

smacl

fran17 wrote: »

But an important issue is raised none the less,what role would the child's father play if legal access to abortion was to become an issue in Ireland.Be it a planned or an unplanned pregnancy the male still has equal responsibility in relation to the child's conception no?

There isn't a father until such point as there is a child, and whether or not a woman who does choose to have a child, it takes rather more than just being the biological father of that child to have any say in how that child is raised. Contrary to the popular song, every sperm is not in fact sacred. To suggest that just because you have had sex with a woman you have some rights to the foetus if she gets pregnant is ridiculous even by Monty Python standards.

robindch

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

If only his political career, such as it is, would reach its natural end...

Every time Mullen reaches for the microphone, it's hard not to recall a comment made by the wonderful Linda Smith about Jeffrey Archer - "I don't want to deny him the oxygen of publicity. I want to deny him the oxygen of oxygen."

magicbastarder

fran17 wrote: »

Be it a planned or an unplanned pregnancy the male still has equal responsibility in relation to the child's conception no?

sure, we'll just hand over the responsibility of gestation to the father.

Mark Hamill

keane2097 wrote: »

Shouldn't even give oxygen to that ****weasel tbf.

Take away his glasses first, see if he likes his natural eyesight.

fran17

Delirium wrote: »

are you suggesting, for example, that if a father objects to the abortion it should superced the wishes of the pregnant woman?

No that's an odd conclusion considering that I used the term equal responsibility.Let me then suggest,seen as we have our suggestion hats on,that a husband and wife mutually consent to having a child and the wife therefor becomes pregnant.Some time later the wife decides she is not ready for motherhood and seeks an abortion.Do you believe that she should have absolute power regarding the death of the human life she and her husband consensually created?What I'm asking is,in your eyes,should a man have any rights regarding the termination of the human life he equally created.

smacl

fran17 wrote: »

No that's an odd conclusion considering that I used the term equal responsibility.Let me then suggest,seen as we have our suggestion hats on,that a husband and wife mutually consent to having a child and the wife therefor becomes pregnant.Some time later the wife decides she is not ready for motherhood and seeks an abortion. Do you believe that she should have absolute power regarding the death of the human life she and her husband consensually created?

Yes.

What I'm asking is,in your eyes,should a man have any rights regarding the termination of the human life he equally created.

No.