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John Connors: The Travellers

laugh

Anybody watching this?

Doesn't seem to be much balance in this analysis of the travelling community.

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BrokenArrows

The Honey Monster wrote: »

Who is your daddy and what does he do.

He doesnt work, ya see he has a bad back and claims de benefits.

BrokenArrows

The_Captain wrote: »

Everyone in Ireland just has a very specific type of racism where we accept Africans, Eastern Europeans, Chinese, Muslims, people from all backgrounds, nations and cultures, but we're racist against the white Irish travelling community who never do anything wrong ever.

I hope you were actually being sarcastic there?

And other posters complaining about kids being taken away from their families. While its a harsh thing to do, if i had a kid and decided to move into a caravan which i just parked up on someones land and didnt send my kids to school every day, you can be dam sure that kid would be taken away from me too.

[Deleted User]

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Travellers are kinda like Ireland's version of Native Americans. Modern western life just isn't compatible with nomadism.

Well. There's a difference between a native population being invaded, enslaved, displaced, destroyed by disease and a subset of a population deciding they're different to everyone else.

[Deleted User]

This is from the central statistics office from 2011

The Irish Traveller population
The total number of Irish Travellers enumerated in April 2011 was 29,573 - accounting for just over half of one per cent (0.6%) of the total population. Galway County had the highest number of Travellers of all administrative counties with 2,476 persons, followed by South Dublin with 2,216. In contrast there were only 152 Travellers enumerated in Waterford County.

Boards seems to be obsessed with travellers.

BrokenArrows

mariaalice wrote: »

This is from the central statistics office from 2011

The Irish Traveller population
The total number of Irish Travellers enumerated in April 2011 was 29,573 - accounting for just over half of one per cent (0.6%) of the total population. Galway County had the highest number of Travellers of all administrative counties with 2,476 persons, followed by South Dublin with 2,216. In contrast there were only 152 Travellers enumerated in Waterford County.

Boards seems to be obsessed with travellers.

They are a very small percentage of the population which cause a very high percentage of the problems.

With such a small percentage of the population why was a tv show even made about them. There are more Lithuanians in Ireland than travelers, Why didnt they make a tv show about the culture of Lithuania or any other productive members of the Irish society.

Jesus.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Considering they rarely drink and most don't smoke and their lifestyle would work out cheaper than many settled families they could well afford to save up for a car and insurance etc while on the dole or working wherever they can get some work.

The naivety in this post is almost cute!

Wibbs

mariaalice wrote: »

This is from the central statistics office from 2011

The Irish Traveller population
The total number of Irish Travellers enumerated in April 2011 was 29,573 - accounting for just over half of one per cent (0.6%) of the total population. Galway County had the highest number of Travellers of all administrative counties with 2,476 persons, followed by South Dublin with 2,216. In contrast there were only 152 Travellers enumerated in Waterford County.

Boards seems to be obsessed with travellers.

Have an old peruse of the general Irish longevity, birth rate, childhood illness and death, spousal abuse and criminality stats and see how Irish Travellers fare against background.

Sam Kade

The_Captain wrote: »

Everyone in Ireland just has a very specific type of racism where we accept Africans, Eastern Europeans, Chinese, Muslims, people from all backgrounds, nations and cultures, but we're racist against the white Irish travelling community who never do anything wrong ever.

Well said boss :rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Well. There's a difference between a native population being invaded, enslaved, displaced, destroyed by disease and a subset of a population deciding they're different to everyone else.

I don't follow.

Because of Wounded Knee and smallpox, native Americans deserve to be treated better than travellers here?

What Native Americans are invaded, enslaved and destroyed by disease these days? Or again are you going back 150 years?

And are you overlooking matters such as placing traveller children in orphanages and institutions just because of who they were? Was that not an effort to destroy an identity?

[Deleted User]

BrokenArrows wrote: »

They are a very small percentage of the population which cause a very high percentage of the problems.

With such a small percentage of the population why was a tv show even made about them. There are more Lithuanians in Ireland than travelers, Why didnt they made a tv show about the culture of Lithuania or any other productive members of the Irish society.

Yes that is a point there is a lot of fawning over travellers by the media. I am making the point that you need a bit of balance in all these things, they do not commit every crime in the country but that is not the impression you would get from boards.

topper75

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Aye the whole pox blankest and all that.

I've lost count of the number of treaties we signed with them and then broke when we found out about the minerals under their halting sites.:P

The analogy is woeful as DNA shows we are the SAME as them gentically. The ethnic claim has no grounds. They split off from the rest of Irish society into clan groupings around 1000ADish and started doing things their own way, intermarrying, excluding and distrusting all other people, eschewing farming and land ownership. I fail to see how we owe them really. All citizens in a republic have the same rights. The lefties and I agree on that. Where we diverge is the question on us all having the same responsibilities.

whisky_galore

Deleted User wrote: »

And are you overlooking matters such as placing traveller children in orphanages and institutions just because of who they were? Was that not an effort to destroy an identity?

Anyone who didn't conform to 'decent Roman Catholic' society could find themselves dumped in an institution, often by their own families.

[Deleted User]

topper75 wrote: »

I've lost count of the number of treaties we signed with them and then broke when we found out about the minerals under their halting sites.:P

The analogy is woeful as DNA shows we are the SAME as them gentically. The ethnic claim has no grounds. They split off from the rest of Irish society into clan groupings around 1000ADish and started doing things their own way, intermarrying, excluding and distrusting all other people, eschewing farming and land ownership. I fail to see how we owe them really. All citizens in a republic have the same rights. The lefties and I agree on that. Where we diverge is the question on us all having the same responsibilities.

So you only define ethnicity by DNA?

You do know that simply means that you do not understand the concept of ethnicity?

Jesus.

topper75 wrote: »

They split off from the rest of Irish society into clan groupings around 1000ADish.

According to them it was much later than that

"We were robbed of the bit of land during the Famine and were put out on the road. We've been going the road ever since"

seachto7

My dealings and experience with them has been 100% negative. But that's just a small % of them I'm on about.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't follow.

Because of Wounded Knee and smallpox, native Americans deserve to be treated better than travellers here?

What Native Americans are invaded, enslaved and destroyed by disease these days? Or again are you going back 150 years?

:rolleyes:

And are you overlooking matters such as placing traveller children in orphanages and institutions just because of who they were? Was that not an effort to destroy an identity?

Yes. An invented identity at that.

RayM

JeffK88 wrote: »

The media obsession continues. Im just waiting for the group Traveller lives matter to be set up.

You'd have a hard time persuading a lot of Irish people that Travellers' lives matter.

My dealings with Travellers (working in retail for several years and living around the corner from a halting site) have been grand. Don't worry though - I'm not trying to suggest that all Travellers are grand. Only a total idiot would make such a stupid sweeping generalisation about an entire community...

laoch na mona

the project it's documenting sounds interesting, I thought the show was good it shone light on issues like the attitude of the early Irish governments to the travelling community and the impact that has had on people.

Ultimately people like John Connors and the other researchers in the show are creating a positive example for young travellers to look up to. This is a good thing no matter what your attitude to travellers

_Brian

I didn't watch the program on TV but Mr Connors was on Anton Savage yesterday morning.. He's well spoken but he did spend the whole segment blaming the current crisis in the traveling community on settled people and the government. He portrait the traveling community as unfortunate victims who through all the adversity heaped against them - they are continuing the fight to preserve the true irish traveling ways and traditions..
He made absolutely no acknowledgment that perhaps traveler actions themselves alienate them from everyone.

One thing he did say that I agree with was that the loss of genuine work like tin pot repairs and knife sharpening had a detrimental affect on their ability to generate steady legitimate income. I feel however that following this there is no recognition that many or much of the community has since then turned to less than savory income streams and antisocial behaviour.

After the interview Anton said that he was getting many complaints about the fact that traveler crime wasn't mentioned at all, he asked about other interviewees and the fact that he hadn't mentioned organised crime or the IRA to the others.. I thought he was playing the easy get out by saying that, equally I wouldn't want a family involved in organised crime living near me same as any family involved in crime including travelers. During the troubles I equally intentionally avoided interaction with families involved in troubles..

Its not like settled people are accepting of every criminal and scumbag except those from the traveling community. I want nothing to do with such elements no matter their background and have instructed my children to avoid specific children from settled families for their long term benefit.

The lack of acknowledgment and willingness to shun their own who turn to crime and criminality is continuing to drive a wedge between the two communities. Rolling out the same old rhetoric of "its a small minority" each time has spun out, if its such a small minority then deal with them and let the apparently law abiding remainder become more acceptable. But no the curtains come down and the "its a small minority" is spoken, fingers are pointed at government policy as a cause for everything that is wrong in their community..

Until traveler representative groups are willing to grasp this issue and deal with it, nothing will change and travelers as a whole will be shunned by the rest of society.

I will not appologise for not accepting travelers as a whole. Not while they continually accept and hide the criminal element among them while expecting the rest of society to bow to their demands and fund a better lifestyle for them. Society only works where there is give and take, groups who take, take, take on their own terms only are laying a bleak path for themselves and there is no need for a guilt trip to be laid on the rest of us as a result.

suicide_circus

^^^^ the first step is admitting you have a problem

topper75

Deleted User wrote: »

So you only define ethnicity by DNA?

You do know that simply means that you do not understand the concept of ethnicity?

Of course there is more to it than DNA but can you tell me what it is that makes them ethnically different? Their religious persuasion, clothing, language, music, food is not different from the rest of the Irish. So it is a flimsy claim. You feel otherwise?

We can go crazy with such pedantry - I like jazz music. I'd say I share this with something in the order of at least 0.5% of the nation's population. Sufficient for a claim to belong to a jazz ethiniity?

The 'lost land in the famine thing' is disproved not just by DNA testing but by the references to them in records and writings for a long period before famine times.

Penn

_Brian wrote: »

One thing he did say that I agree with was that the loss of genuine work like tin pot repairs and knife sharpening had a detrimental affect on their ability to generate steady legitimate income.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EGAtLGDU7M

laoch na mona

the quote at the start about how the English used to describe the Irish was brilliant I thought, it appears that travellers represent the lifestlye of the poor of Ireland up to the mid 19th century (nomadic/semi nomadic labours, who kept ponies, had a reputation for being a bit wild).

At some point we internalised this colonial attitude and applied it to travellers who reject modern Ireland's anglophone culture

topper75

laoch na mona wrote: »

travellers who reject modern Ireland's anglophone culture

whisky_galore

_Brian wrote: »

One thing he did say that I agree with was that the loss of genuine work like tin pot repairs and knife sharpening had a detrimental affect on their ability to generate steady legitimate income. I feel however that following this there is no recognition that many or much of the community has since then turned to less than savory income streams and antisocial behaviour.

Those trades died out years upon years ago.

They need to find income streams that don't involve criminality, con artistry or otherwise scavenging off society to be respected. If that involves some measure of integration, so be it.

suicide_circus

laoch na mona wrote: »

At some point we internalised this colonial attitude and applied it to travellers who reject modern Ireland's anglophone culture

Funnily enough they don't seem to be rejecting modern Ireland's anglophone welfare payments

valoren

Duff wrote: »

Come with me if you want to live.

I need you clothes, your boots and your 162 reg Land Rover.

Sleepy

Is there such a thing as a private halting site?

It's something that's always puzzled me. If the travelling community wishes to travel, why can't they form a co-op to purchase a number of sites around the country to be halting sites? Why is it that the Council's are expected to provide them, and maintain them (definitely the larger cost). Why is it that when council workers whose job it is to maintain those sites, while replacing a lamp-post that was only replaced 6 months previously but has seemingly been stolen and sold for scrap have to wear stab vests when attending the property?

If you want to live a nomadic life, fine. Feel free. Just stop expecting the rest of society to fund it.

andekwarhola

Wibbs wrote: »

Have an old peruse of the general Irish longevity, birth rate, childhood illness and death, spousal abuse and criminality stats and see how Irish Travellers fare against background.

Yeah but the Settled Tyranny imposes that lifestyle upon them, dontchaknow.

whisky_galore

Sleepy wrote: »

Is there such a thing as a private halting site?

It's something that's always puzzled me. If the travelling community wishes to travel, why can't they form a co-op to purchase a number of sites around the country to be halting sites? Why is it that the Council's are expected to provide them, and maintain them (definitely the larger cost). Why is it that when council workers whose job it is to maintain those sites, while replacing a lamp-post that was only replaced 6 months previously but has seemingly been stolen and sold for scrap have to wear stab vests when attending the property?

If you want to live a nomadic life, fine. Feel free. Just stop expecting the rest of society to fund it.

That supposes traveller families would be organised and co-operate with each other, which is a stretch of the imagination...