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Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? READ POST 1

Chemical Burn

SEXISM MEN HAVE EXPERIENCED

Inspired by the thread I saw in the Ladies' Lounge, about Sexism they apparently experience from day to day life, I thought I might start a thread about sexism that us gentlmen experience apart from the others in the LL.
So Gentlemen of GC, what sexism discrimination do you experience?

Please NO AH-type responses or attacking the OP or thread ...

I was told by a driving instructor (back in the day) that I would have a lesser chance of passing the test because of how I looked and because I was a man (instructor was female). This was 11 years ago.

I was in college queuing up to use a photocopyer / printer and it was faulty, and I had to page the maintenance guy. Even though I was first in the queue, he pushed me aside and told me to " let the "ladies" go ahead of me ", when the machine was back up and running again. This was 10 years ago.

MOD NOTE! ** READ THIS **
I'm going to make this completely crystal clear, for the benefit of all.

This is a thread for men to post their experiences of sexism that they believe they have experienced. Discussion in this thread is welcome, from both men and women - so long as it goes with the ethos of the thread. Addition - this thread will also encompass general sexism against men.

The following is no longer to take place in this thread:

- Discussion of which sex has it worse
- Arguing about what is, or isn't sexism in your view

This is the Gentlemen's Club forum. This forum will always have a male leaning ethos. Men do not have to defend their experiences in this thread to anyone.

We will start banning people who continue to derail this thread.

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Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Letree

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_(ethology)

The beta male, far from being submissive, is actually the second in status in a group. According to the theory, anyway.

The alpha beta thing is a bit of a nonsense anyway. Someone may be an alpha in one group of people and may not be anywhere near an alpha in another group of people. Depending on the personalities and characters in a given group.

[Deleted User]

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Really? I've come across plenty of giving out from women along the lines of people feeling like they have "the right" to comment on their appearance just because they're women. Different circles I suppose.

py2006

Permabear wrote: »

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In this day and age I would be EXTREMELY hesitant in complimenting a woman on something as trivial as hair or clothes. Especially in the work place

newport2

py2006 wrote: »

In this day and age I would be EXTREMELY hesitant in complimenting a woman on something as trivial as hair or clothes. Especially in the work place

Unless you know her personally, saying nought is the safest option

kunst nugget

newport2 wrote: »

Unless you know her personally, saying nought is the safest option

I wouldn't compliment someone on their hair or clothes if I didn't know them personally. It's not out of paranoia about the age we live in or anything, I just wouldn't see the point of it. I'd say it to the people I work in the office with but I see and talk to them everyday.

py2006

Well in the way you kinda know colleagues but don't fully know them. I'd avoid any compliments. Probably overly cautious but you never know...

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Carlos Orange

Permabear wrote: »

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By that logic women would never give out about men referring to women as girls and yet that obviously happens. Double standards are pretty common.

[Deleted User]

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I wasn't talking about a friend who I hadn't met in months, I was talking about literally everyone in my office, both "the lads" and the higher-ups (in front of everyone). Along with people from other offices stopping to call in and mention it.
And yes it is a bit rich talking about "the right" because it is women who judge other women's appearance more than men do, but that's still down to the patriarchy.

mzungu

Deleted User wrote: »

And yes it is a bit rich talking about "the right" because it is women who judge other women's appearance more than men do, but that's still down to the patriarchy.

Aye, I think the article posted a few pages back highlights that. Also the other article a while back where the term 'ladylike' was deemed an insult.

It's all a bit silly.

py2006

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Totally agree and I don't see the harm. But you may one day innocently compliment the wrong woman who views your compliment negatively.

py2006

What ya'll reckon about this article

The article basically says girls don't have their own minds at a youngish age despite being 2 years more mature apparently. There has to be some level of accountability among young women. No all boys are bad. Not all girls are vulnerable, innocent snowflakes. Some girls watch and like porn too. A lot of young girls are heavily influenced by the sexualised imagery in pop and female popstars etc. A quick glimpse on Facebook will show some startling profile pics. Is this young boys fault too?

Pornography is molding and conditioning the sexual behaviors and attitudes of boys, and girls are being left without the resources to deal with these porn-saturated boys.

Pawwed Rig

Bit of common sense from the Brits around the safe spaces concept

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/sep/14/theresa-may-criticises-university-safe-spaces-for-shutting-down-debate

frostyjacks

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Bit of common sense from the Brits around the safe spaces concept

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/sep/14/theresa-may-criticises-university-safe-spaces-for-shutting-down-debate

The Tories, to be fair to them, play with a straight bat. In this life you have to be able to stand on your own two feet, have thick skin and give as good as you get. I don't want the next generation growing up in a sterile, debate-free environment. It's no preparation for the real world.

Pawwed Rig

There is no role for Fathers in looking after infants

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0923/818670-baby-box-limerick/

JRant

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There is no role for Fathers in looking after infants

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0923/818670-baby-box-limerick/

Not one bit surprising really. Maternity hospitals in Ireland treat the father as an inconvenience most of time.

Icemancometh

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There is no role for Fathers in looking after infants

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0923/818670-baby-box-limerick/

I think it's just an ignorantly written article about a worthwhile project.

the_pen_turner

Totally disgraceful campaign. Saw it on the news last night. . All about how mothers need help and education . How mothers can help stop cut death. How this box will help the mother be organised for the arrival.
It's like they don't even understand that there could be a father or that he might need help liking after the child

um7y1h83ge06nx

The same idiots probably (rightfully) complain about fathers not getting involved in raising kids and cannot see the irony.

Connacht2KXX

irishexaminer .com/viewpoints/columnists/louise-oneill/virginity-has-been-framed-as-something-a-girl-must-safeguard-and-hold-on-to-as-long-as-possible-422480.html (can't link)

Louise O'Neill again. She is one of the most illogical Irish journalists out there (which is saying a lot). Her big gripe is with the western, straight, white patriarchy which treats women worse than dogs yet won't criticise any cultures/ideologies/religions that immiserate women, for fear of being islamophobic.

So the article - she basically assumes that women are so innocent and oppressed by the patriarchy and must be given a safe space to explore their sexuality yet boys (who mature slower than women) should just get on with it.

She goes on that women are over sexualised yet complains that not enough parents posts pictures of their teenage daughters in bikinis.

This quote stood out to me:

"when I began to speak publicly about my decision to write Asking For It, a novel that deals with the rape of a young woman in a small Irish town and the subsequent use of social media to circulate images of the attack, that I started to receive emails and letters from mothers of teenage daughters.

They would ask me how best to protect their daughters and their anxiety was palpable.

Their daughters were posting too many selfies on Instagram, they told me, their skirts were too short, tops too low-cut; these young girls were behaving in ways that didn’t seem ‘ladylike’ to their frantic parents."
There's so much to address here. Firstly, it is great that someone is speaking out about the dangers of social media which can ruin lives and exploit women.
However, O'Neill is not the one who should speak about it. She has created this overwhelming sense of paranoia in society about rape culture. I rarely, if ever, see the term rape culture correctly addressed. Terms such as rape culture, islamophobia, fatphobia etc are terms created by feminists, sjws and regressive liberals so as to stifle any criticism that can be levelled against them and make them feel like they are victims. When one hears the term rape culture, their immediate idea of the term should be a culture where rape is not only condoned but supported and rewarded, like in the Islamic world. However, this misleading term actually means: "rape culture is a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality...Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, refusing to acknowledge the harm caused by some forms of sexual violence, or some combination of these" (taken from Wikipedia). Even this soft definition cannot be completely applicable to the western world. For example, I am considered a victim blamer if I say that a woman who gets wasted and walks home from a club at 4am and gets raped in an alley increases their chances of getting raped, yet is just as innocent as a man who gets raped at knife point on his way home from work. Furthermore, "some forms of sexual violence" include rape jokes, sex jokes and even interrupting women in a conversation. Many people openly say that there is widespread rape in the world, such as in the Middle East, the Congo and even in some parts of western Europe, such as Cologne on NYE, (cue the claims of racism, islamophobia, bigotry etc) yet claim that the figure that 1 in 4 women will get raped on campus is blown way out of proportion. This is considered "denial of widespread rape". The people who trivialise rape tend to be the feminists who make up these terms and make the definition of rape so broad that even arguing with a woman can be considered rape. They also never give a shít if men get raped, even though men get raped more than women. I have never seen a feminist protest outside of a prison, demanding the guards to help protect the victims of rape. I never saw feminists protesting when a man in the 80s got life in prison for rape, his wife divorced him, after 25 years he got out after being proven innocent due to DNA testing, got only $4m dollars in compo from the government (should have got at least $40m) and his wife was able to sue him for a few hundred grand in alimony payments. And good ol Louise can claim that our rape culture is so pervasive in Irish society because we teach women not to get raped, not men not to rape. I could write another 5 pages on why this is so unethical and plain stupid but I won't bother. Ploughing ahead on the sexism....

She mentioned the double standard of the whole Slane Girl incident and how no one talked about Slane Boy. This is so wrong for so many reasons. Feminists and sjws really hate science and logic. A 12 year old with basic biology can understand one of the founding reasons why no one criticised the boy - men have to work for sex, women don't. Men produce 400-800 spermatozoa at the time of ejaculation. We are programmed to try everything in our remit to get our genes into the next generation. Women produce one egg per month and child birth is a very dangerous process which means they have a lower sex drive and have to be careful about their mating choices. This is one (yes one, not the only factor) about why men who get a lot of women are called studs and women who sleep around are called sluts. Both the boy and the girl at the concert deserved to be reprimanded and denounced as they broke the law. But it isn't rocket science as to why society would be more inclined to give shít to the woman, rather than the guy. The "boys will be boys" phrase that O'Neill hates applies to stupid, drunk 20 year old men as they are hardwired that way. I feel these feminists are so afraid of admitting that men and women are different because they believe that they will lose all their rights. It's not sexist nor misogynistic to say that men and women are different in many ways but should be treated equally under the eyes of the law. Again, science and logic seems to go over her head.

O'Neill quoted some doctor: "harmful societal messages about gender roles teach boys and girls that girls are to blame when men and boys are disrespectful, aggressive or violent towards women and girls.” Wtf. Society says that women have the right escalate a verbal argument toa physical level by slapping, punching, spitting, kicking and/or throwing a drink at a man's face and if he even dares defend himself, he will go to jail. When the situations are reversed, the man also goes to prison.

Ok, I haven't realised that I've been ranting for the last 10 years about this one fúcking lunatic.
TLDR - O'Neill is a hypocrite

NI24

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Are they really? Is there any evidence that this sort of thing is really that widespread or now considered the norm?

Can't recall where but I did see something recently that indicated that it's not and that the majority of uni students these days aren't the coddled children they're increasingly being made out to be. Didn't surprise me; most of the time when you read this stuff it's from some small corner in the US. It's a big planet and if you're determined to find idiocy, the internet will facilitate. How many people go to university and how many cases like these are there?

I know the article to which you're referring but I can't remember the name or the periodical. They basically interviewed teachers and professors who admitted that less than than a tiny percentage of students ever complained about feeling unsafe or something like that. And I mean really small percentage.

The funny thing was I found that article buried in a thread on a forum I frequent. It's a forum that consists mainly of men who hate "SJWs" but when someone posted that article it was met with absolute silence. None of the usual ripping apart or joking or anything. It was if someone had canceled Christmas for them. And quick as a whip, the usual sensationalist headline showing how SJWs are taking over the world was linked and the usual outrage over the end of freedom was forecasted.

It's amusing how many of these Freedom is Dying, I tell you, Dying! men remind me of militia types who stockpile canned beets in case aliens land and try to take over the Earth.

gizmo555

Fintan O'Toole on the Irish Times website - all men are inherently violent and if a man, for example, aspires to a role in management, that's an expression of his inherent violence. (Don't forget, this is the guy who said he wouldn't run for elected office because he could make a more valuable contribution to society pontificating in the paper.)

O'Toole & Mullally, et al are the reason why I don't buy the IT any more - why would anyone sane pay to read this? All it is these days is a wannabee Guardian.

What’s the worst male trait?

The worst most damaging masculine trait is violence… the fact is, men hit people more than women do… Men are still encouraged in all sorts of ways to express themselves violently and that’s not just physical violence, it's psychological violence, it’s through domination. It’s through the idea that you can’t be a man unless you’re in some sort of dominant position. That’s innately violence. It produces not just the desire but perhaps the need to be in charge of someone else, particularly women.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/fintan-o-toole-the-worst-masculine-trait-is-violence-men-hit-people-more-than-women-do-1.2802966

Eric Cartman

Nigel farage or donald trump bang on about immigrant terrorists and jts a "culture if fear" and "hate speech" according to the left , feminists do the exact same thing with men as the target and the left buy into it straight away.

If you keep telling women that all men are dangerous over and over, ofcourse theyll start to feel unsafe, its basically fox news logic for the left

um7y1h83ge06nx

gizmo555 wrote: »

Fintan O'Toole on the Irish Times website - all men are inherently violent and if a man, for example, aspires to a role in management, that's an expression of his inherent violence. (Don't forget, this is the guy who said he wouldn't run for elected office because he could make a more valuable contribution to society pontificating in the paper.)

O'Toole & Mullally, et al are the reason why I don't buy the IT any more - why would anyone sane pay to read this? All it is these days is a wannabee Guardian.

It's very sad that there are so many men out there today that are guilty, uncomfortable and ashamed for being men. It's not healthy for those men and it's not healthy for all men, particularly young men to be exposed to things like that. If you're a young man struggling with life and your identity this is another kick in the balls.

Why oh why can we all just try to be decent human beings. This male vs female gender wars we have to put up with in our media today is no more mature than the schoolyard Nintendo vs Sega console wars in the 90s.

Pawwed Rig

Darren Incalculable AcrossL wrote: »

It's very sad that there are so many men out there today that are guilty, uncomfortable and ashamed for being men. It's not healthy for those men and it's not healthy for all men, particularly young men to be exposed to things like that. If you're a young man struggling with life and your identity this is another kick in the balls.

There are studies that would indicate that this contributes to the sickeningly high suicide rate among men too.

Wibbs

Darren Incalculable AcrossL wrote: »

It's very sad that there are so many men out there today that are guilty, uncomfortable and ashamed for being men.

It's long streaks of pseudo misery like O'Toole who should be ashamed that they claim to be men. Pretty much any time I'e read one of his opinion pieces my reaction could be summed up by this;

With Clitbait©Me 2016 like Dulally and that other whinging wan whose name momentarily and mercifully escapes my response is if facepalm was an emotion I'm feeling it. Not least for the hard of thinking thundering gobshítes who believe them and buy into all that. Hang on… yes… I think I can feel a silent scream coming from my very soul… oh wait… ahh… it was wind. Grand so.

gizmo555

Wibbs wrote: »

It's long streaks of pseudo misery like O'Toole who should be ashamed that they claim to be men.

The O'Toole interview is in the context of a series started on Saturday by Hugh Linehan on "How to be a modern man in Ireland". The piece published on Saturday includes such gems as:

'I could murder, I could kill, I could rape. I’m no different to guys who have done those things. I know that’s in me. And I feel it’s in all of us, in a lot of human beings.'

'Some female colleagues suggested questions for this session, and one asked: why do young men kick each other in the head when they go out at weekends?'

'A thing that infuriates many women is the fact that men feel impelled to fill the room with the sound of their own voices, the phenomenon known as “mansplaining”. A female colleague wanted me to ask this group: “How it is that men know everything?” '

'Perhaps you’ve just answered the question what being a man is. Because women have to think about being a woman. Perhaps being a man is that you don’t have to think.'

There you have it - that's the Irish Times view of Irishmen. We're all inherently violent potential murderers & rapists, and unthinking, opinionated, loudmouthed, know-it-alls.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/how-to-be-a-modern-man-in-ireland-irish-men-on-masculinity-feminism-and-violence-1.2803057

Wibbs

gizmo555 wrote: »

We're all inherently violent potential murderers & rapists, and unthinking, opinionated, loudmouthed, know-it-alls.

Given all the raping and killing and not thinking it's amazing how it was men that invented, developed and worked at building damn near every single thing around us in civilisation. Where did they find the time? I thought men were crap at multitasking. Colour me wrong.

I could murder, I could kill, I could rape. I’m no different to guys who have done those things

Whoever said and thinks like that is an atomic powered solid state moron. Apparently he's a clinical psychologist. A pursuit with an arguably high level of quackery so no shock there. He goes on to utter such gems as "I think being a man is being a human being, actually". No really? You don't saaayyy? Plato would be proud of that rapier sharp observation. Apparently he's "had more therapy than most people have had dinners, and I’ve never gotten over anything". *strikes therapy off the list of things worth much of a damn then*.

Another yahoo comes out with this gem: On my Twitter feed or Facebook, you hear “f**kboy” [womaniser] being thrown around as an insult. And if any of the lads was to turn around on Facebook and call a girl a “slut” they’d be lambasted" And he doesn't seem to see the…

Ah look, there is usually zero point engaging with this kind of media fcuknut that makes up that kinda article and/or "panel". These eejits go on about stereotypes and don't cop that they are walking talking perfect examples of a suite of them.

mzungu

gizmo555 wrote: »

'I could murder, I could kill, I could rape. I’m no different to guys who have done those things. I know that’s in me. And I feel it’s in all of us, in a lot of human beings.'

Bizarre.

If the IT really wanted to do something like this properly, they should do a series of interviews with the man on the street and not a handpicked selection of their friends who share the same worldview. That panel is not exactly representative of the average Irish man.