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Eircode - its implemetation (merged)

beveragelady

I called An Post today to try to sort out a problem with deliveries. The customer service chap was very helpful and I think it all got sorted.
The thing is, I tried to give him my Eircode because I live at a vague rural address but he said that they're not using them because the system isn't set up.
Amazed!
It's bad enough that they're no good to users of satnavs or google maps, but this is just astonishing. Can anybody explain how this could have been launched to such fanfare when it's all but meaningless?

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plodder

Deleted User wrote: »

What about using the small area sub codes that were discussed up thread (I can't be arsed to find them!).

The CSO have published statistics before that were indexed by routing key. I'm not sure why they do it, as obviously they could use small areas. Except if the reason is relating the stats to public identifiers, which routing keys are.

[Deleted User]

plodder wrote: »

Eircode routing keys are a terrible yardstick for making comparisons outside of Dublin. In the West of the country routing key areas are massive, eg the one that straddles Galway, Clare and Mayo. Obviously, if you have an Eircode license then you can use small areas. But, then again, if you want to relate the stats to areas that the public can identify with, then maybe you are stuck with routing keys anyway.

What about using the small area sub codes that were discussed up thread (I can't be arsed to find them!).

plodder

sondagefaux wrote: »

Another use for Eircodes - geographical analysis of house prices within the Residential Property Price Index:

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/collapse-in-irish-property-prices-more-severe-than-previously-thought-1.2799482

Eircode routing keys (the first three characters of the Eircodes) are used in the new index to better account for locational differences between dwellings. Only county level information was available in the original index outside of Dublin

Eircode routing keys are a terrible yardstick for making comparisons outside of Dublin. In the West of the country routing key areas are massive, eg the one that straddles Galway, Clare and Mayo. Obviously, if you have an Eircode license then you can use small areas. But, then again, if you want to relate the stats to areas that the public can identify with, then maybe you are stuck with routing keys anyway.

sondagefaux

Another use for Eircodes - geographical analysis of house prices within the Residential Property Price Index:

[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Ireland s property market crash was more severe than previously thought while cash buyers are paying significantly less for property than other buyers, according to the new Residential Property Price Index.[/font]

[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]...[/font]

[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]The figures, which also use a range of locational information based on Eircodes, reveal a massive variation in the average price paid for property across Dublin, and between the capital and the rest of the country.[/font]

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/collapse-in-irish-property-prices-more-severe-than-previously-thought-1.2799482

BoatMad

MBSnr wrote: »

Nothing official. I just noticed by chance 2 wks back. Some things don't work correctly as of yet, as in this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=101087769

works for my address, even if if displays a slight odd address ( mind you round me , lots of funny names and spelling exists)

MBSnr

BoatMad wrote: »

when did the support for eircode get added to google maps, I missed any announcement

" and a raspberry to the detractors "

Nothing official. I just noticed by chance 2 wks back. Some things don't work correctly as of yet, as in this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=101087769

chewed

BoatMad wrote: »

when did the support for eircode get added to google maps, I missed any announcement

" and a raspberry to the detractors "

I asked the same question in an earlier post. No announcement yet as it's still in beta. Some codes still don't work properly.

BoatMad

when did the support for eircode get added to google maps, I missed any announcement

" and a raspberry to the detractors "

chewed

Yesterday I had to use an eircode in Google maps on my phone to find the address of a house in the arse end of Cavan. It worked a treat! Bring it on I say!!!

sondagefaux

Sam Russell wrote: »

Maybe if Google start giving the accurate geographical address [Shannon Airport, Co. Clare] maybe An Post might drop their insistence on the so-called postal address. Once Eircode becomes normal and the various apps make it popular, the Google maps will be the usual way people check addresses.

Why would An Post need a 'postal' address as Eircode has it already embedded? Shannon Airport will then be back in Co. Clare for good.

They don't insist on the postal address. It's use is optional. Just as Royal Mail in the UK don't insist on the postal addresses for the many addresses in the UK, including Gatwick Airport, which have a geographic address that differs from its postal address.

The Eircode Finder site now shows the geographic address as the default address when you enter an Eircode.

In most cases, the postal address is the same as the geographic address.

For historical reasons, mainly because the Irish postal system copied many features of the British postal system before independence, a relatively small number of Irish addresses have an An Post preferred postal address (the use of which is not insisted upon by An Post) which differ from their geographic addresses, just as in the UK.

It's never been a big deal before (i.e. people living in Co. Kilkenny never seem to have objected when their postal addresses included the line 'via Waterford') but there seems to have been some effort in the media and on social media to make a big deal out of it since Eircodes were launched.

I don't know why a system that's been used since the mid-19th century without any major controversy should have suddenly become a big deal since Eircodes were launched.

Although I suppose it could be something to do with efforts by certain parties to undermine Eircodes and by the tendency of the 'only in Ireland' brigade to try to make a big fuss about something which is actually a feature of the British postal system too, and has been since the system was developed in the 19th century.

oscarBravo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Maybe if Google start giving the accurate geographical address [Shannon Airport, Co. Clare]...

Google Maps tells me Shannon Airport is in Lismacleane, County Clare. What's it telling you, and why is it telling us different things?

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

Maybe if Google start giving the accurate geographical address [Shannon Airport, Co. Clare] maybe An Post might drop their insistence on the so-called postal address. Once Eircode becomes normal and the various apps make it popular, the Google maps will be the usual way people check addresses.

Why would An Post need a 'postal' address as Eircode has it already embedded? Shannon Airport will then be back in Co. Clare for good.

Shannon airport never left Co. Clare

Sam Russell

Maybe if Google start giving the accurate geographical address [Shannon Airport, Co. Clare] maybe An Post might drop their insistence on the so-called postal address. Once Eircode becomes normal and the various apps make it popular, the Google maps will be the usual way people check addresses.

Why would An Post need a 'postal' address as Eircode has it already embedded? Shannon Airport will then be back in Co. Clare for good.

sondagefaux

chewed wrote: »

I wonder will Google Maps eventually be able to display the actual house number/name when an Eircode is searched, once it's fully rolled out? Currently it just seems to display the town land and town.

Well it can't do any more than that for rural townland addresses anyway. But it would be handy if at least gave the street name in urban areas.

chewed

I wonder will Google Maps eventually be able to display the actual house number/name when an Eircode is searched, once it's fully rolled out? Currently it just seems to display the town land and town.

ukoda

The anti eircode crowd are spinning the nightline story into "nightline forced to hire more people because eircode is so inefficient" !!!! It's just ridiculous now.

Fastway also invested in eircode btw:

http://irishtechnews.net/ITN3/fastway-couriers-announces-plans-for-expansion-opportunities-for-up-to-100-new-franchises-coming-on-stream/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork

oscarBravo

plodder wrote: »

I wouldn't be drawing attention to google maps until they fix the problem with multiple codes at the one location. The Autoaddress app is currently a better solution for any serious navigation/delivery users.

I'd agree; more generally, I wouldn't bother drawing attention to Google Maps until they've actually announced support.

plodder

I wouldn't be drawing attention to google maps until they fix the problem with multiple codes at the one location. The Autoaddress app is currently a better solution for any serious navigation/delivery users.

oscarBravo

MBSnr wrote: »

There's a young fella due to come to our house to pick some stuff up and I asked if he used Google maps at all, being as he has a smartphone. He said he did. I said I can give you our Eircode and it'll bring you to the door. He said he'll ring for directions when he gets close.

I'm getting dangerously close to the point where I'd reply to that: "Grand so, I'll give you my Eircode then."

MBSnr

^^^
I mentioned that Eircodes work with Google Maps now to quite a few people at work, friends and the family. Most seemed unimpressed or indifferent. I guess had they worked in Google Maps from day one in July 2015, things would be a lot different at this stage after 12 odd months of adoption. I recall a lot of larger online companies putting on the web their store locations with Eircodes listed in mid 2015, but that initial flurry of activity and knowledge of getting an Eircode in the post has long passed. How many know their Eircode now I wonder? Going to take a little longer to gain traction again than it would have 12 months ago.

There's a young fella due to come to our house to pick some stuff up and I asked if he used Google maps at all, being as he has a smartphone. He said he did. I said I can give you our Eircode and it'll bring you to the door. He said he'll ring for directions when he gets close. I was surprised at that but maybe some people, whatever their age, just don't use technology or can't see the benefits as much as others.

GJG

byrnefm wrote:

I called AIB today to ask they were using Eircodes yet. I was told not really but that they could add mine to my address if I wanted, so I did. I did the same, twice, with Digiweb and they tell me it is on their records.. but never appears on my telephone bill. I wonder if AIB will be the same?

What you are seeing here is the pattern of how new tech gets adopted. To be honest I doubt if your action will have any effect. People are generally conservative and if your job works in a particular way, you are motivated to resist any change. There are usually only a handful of people who have the vision to go in a new direction, but once they act, they change the paradigm.

Google maps have eircode search in beta already, and this will put unbearable pressure on the satnav makers to include it or get out of the market - single use devices are on their way out anyway.

When, say, one insurance company using Eircode to calculate risk, the crude calculations of the others will start costing them money and they will act.

Bray Head wrote:

Two years ago you could not run any kind of delivery operation in Co Mayo without a high degree of local knowledge in your drivers' heads. In a few years you will be able to.

I would say in weeks rather than years, when Eircode is fully uploaded into Google maps. The local knowledge is only good until the local fella retires. Then the company that relies on it, unlike before, will have to compete with a service that doesn't need that knowledge, and must either adopt Eircode or go through months or years of giving terrible service while the new fella learns the ropes. Except this time it's different because customers can compare the service to the company that uses Eircode, and will be complaining about late deliveries, saying that they will use the more advanced company any more. It's pretty obvious that they either adapt or die.

It's the same with the insurance company; better risk calculations mean lower premiums for good risks and higher ones for bad risks, so a company that doesn't use Eircode will suck in all the worst customers and repel the best. Pretty clear what will happen there.

There will be some holdouts who can't stand to change, but they just don't matter. You can follow the Twitter headbanger going through the five stages of grief. (They may never complete them, but ultimately if they don't, the rest of us just move on anyway.)

Remember that one friend who swore they would never get a microwave or a mobile phone? Said everyone else would die of cancer? In the end, maybe they got one, maybe they didn't, but they didn't change the adoption path for new technology one whit.

ukoda

Bray Head wrote: »

Firms that fail to adapt basic labour-saving technology eventually just go away and die.

As I argued on the other thread the opposition to eircode was from incumbent firms which were afraid of more productive entrants coming and eating their lunch.

Two years ago you could not run any kind of delivery operation in Co Mayo without a high degree of local knowledge in your drivers' heads. In a few years you will be able to.

And it amazes me that people claim An Post sabotaged the postcode to keep their competitive advantage (local knowledge) when in fact eircode removes the need for local knowledge!

byrnefm

I called AIB today to ask they were using Eircodes yet. I was told not really but that they could add mine to my address if I wanted, so I did. I did the same, twice, with Digiweb and they tell me it is on their records.. but never appears on my telephone bill. I wonder if AIB will be the same?

Bray Head

Firms that fail to adapt basic labour-saving technology eventually just go away and die.

As I argued on the other thread the opposition to eircode was from incumbent firms which were afraid of more productive entrants coming and eating their lunch.

Two years ago you could not run any kind of delivery operation in Co Mayo without a high degree of local knowledge in your drivers' heads. In a few years you will be able to.

L1011

But but but loc8 told us couriers wouldn't and indeed couldn't use it?

ukoda

Nightline's boss says 'the logic of Eircode' has allowed it to roll out new services
The logistics firm is hiring 150 staff following a €3 million investment in delivery facilities.

https://fora.ie/nightline-jobs-3-million-investment-2979252-Sep2016/?utm_source=twitter

PDVerse

The official advice is it should always be stored in a database field as 7 characters and always presented with the space (8 characters). The reason for the DB advice is to ensure data can be easily matched without worrying whether one source has a space or not. The reason for displaying to users with the space is for readability and ease of recall (memory chunking). It may be inputted either way, lower or upper case, and have obvious input errors (letter O instead of number 0), so these all need to be handled. I'm sure it won't take Google long to sort out their teething issues.

[Deleted User]

I stand[space]corrected

just most search algorithms use [space] as a word separator, it should work OK with " " around the code.

Sam Russell

MBSnr wrote: »

But the official cards sent out have the space.... Most places write it with the space. It needs to work 100% with the space otherwise people will try it once and then give up....

The Eircode finder puts a space in - you cannot more official than that.

However, it should be an easy fix - the software just needs to remove it when parsing.

ukoda

MBSnr wrote: »

But the official cards sent out have the space.... Most places wire it with the space. It needs to work 100% with the space otherwise people will try it once and then give up....

Yes it does need to work with the space, they need the algorithm to check for a routing key if it finds a unique indentifier and not just default to the closet unique identifier ignoring the routing key, which seems to happen a bit now. It should be an easy enough fix