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Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Timmaay

24/6/16

Recently we saw three posters close their accounts over disagreements in the dairy threads. While there is a lot of frustration and discontent with current milk prices and the processing industry, the recent tendency for dairy threads to become tit-for-tat arguments isn’t tolerable for those not involved.

All farming sectors go through difficult periods and during such times there may need to be changes in how threads are moderated.

Dairy threads are going to be more closely monitored and subject to stricter moderation for a while.

To that end we won’t tolerate baiting of posters, constantly reviving old arguments, posters with agendas or crusading for a cause.

Whether it’s discussion of the business or politics of the dairy or other sectors, we expect civility and tolerance toward each other and other opinions as diversity of opinion is needed as a source of different ways of looking at a situation.

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert

Also please be aware that what you may post as light-hearted banter can be read totally differently by someone adversely affected by the subject matter and evoke a reaction you hadn’t intended.

The ‘Off-Season’ forum, and its anonymous posting, is available for anyone to chat about their situation.

The Mod Team.

10 away from the 10000 posts! Frazz I think it's fair to say this thread has been a success!

Indeed it was! First thread can be found here- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056872221

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Comments

Mooooo

I'd say the point being made was as a country if we go gm free it would have its advantages in it being what some consumers want. My skepticism is its the end sellers will get the markup and we'll be left told the same cap. Bord bias grass and rain ****e is doing fcuk all for us

freedominacup

Mooooo wrote: »

I'd say the point being made was as a country if we go gm free it would have its advantages in it being what some consumers want. My skepticism is its the end sellers will get the markup and we'll be left told the same cap. Bord bias grass and rain ****e is doing fcuk all for us

That's why I said we set the standards and be very selective about what processors are allowed in. Do not give ownership of the standards to anyone outside of primary production and defy any of them to state that the standard is wrong. Make a virtue of our seasonal production. Fresh product not being available for periods becomes an indicator of our commitment to sustainable production. Frozen yougurt for smoothies for a few months over the winter will be bought into if the marketing is right.

freedominacup

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I completely disagree re: GM

Do you really think a drop in Irish production of grain is going to do anything for world supply?
It's Australia, russia, france and America that are the big players and the ones causing it. Ireland uses most of the grain it produces.

GM offers the solution IMO. A lot less costs to growing crops and a lot more yield. It's the future.

I'm not talking about grain I'm talking about across the board, nationally, no usage of gm products and no growing gm species in any area of Irish food production. I don't want to feed the world, I just want to make some money. We've had endless examples of areas of the globe where they're only starting to get going producing food in a serious way and we can't compete. We need to stop trying and capitalise on the things we can do. Island nation, extensive traceability systems, reasonably well educated primary producers, no gm so far, cool temperate climate allowing a long grazing season. We're fcuked if we think that competing with real low cost production globally is our best option.

whelan2

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/70-of-farmers-dont-take-a-regular-wage-from-their-farm-business-agriland-survey/

Mooooo

Michael D talking well on radio 1 there

Dawggone

blackdog1 wrote: »

I strongly disagree. In fact I think we are seriously affecting our market. We have a huge population of coeliacs( people who have trouble digesting wheat)in this country and the world. It's getting bigger every year and for some reason the older wheat varieties like spelt don't seem to upset them half as much. Were going for bigger yields but these wheats are not as digestible as the older variety. It's going to be a huge problem down the road.

I was diagnosed as being a coeliac...
Had to eat gluten free muck for years.
Then I came here and never suffered for a second.
Funny how bread goes stale here after an hour...

Dawggone

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I completely disagree re: GM

Do you really think a drop in Irish production of grain is going to do anything for world supply?
It's Australia, russia, france and America that are the big players and the ones causing it. Ireland uses most of the grain it produces.

GM offers the solution IMO. A lot less costs to growing crops and a lot more yield. It's the future.

Agreed, but not in Ireland. Leave that for the grain growing plains...

wats the craic

scanned the cows today all 48 cows that were served are incalf . not a mad mornings work if i do say so

. the 12 heifers will be scanned when i take them home from out farm .

Dawggone

freedominacup wrote: »

I'm not talking about grain I'm talking about across the board, nationally, no usage of gm products and no growing gm species in any area of Irish food production. I don't want to feed the world, I just want to make some money. We've had endless examples of areas of the globe where they're only starting to get going producing food in a serious way and we can't compete. We need to stop trying and capitalise on the things we can do. Island nation, extensive traceability systems, reasonably well educated primary producers, no gm so far, cool temperate climate allowing a long grazing season. We're fcuked if we think that competing with real low cost production globally is our best option.

+1. Excellent.

Irish 'grass fed' beef got a shock when the yanks didn't fall head over heels for it.
Why?....American grass fed beef is exactly that, grass fed with no hormones or antibiotics.
Welcome to senior hurling.

"I don't want to feed the world, I just want to make money" Brilliant.

Btw. I only pointed out the plight of some tillage farmers in Ireland last night. Real hardship and suffering. As Mr. Kingston said...'having no product to sell for a years work'.
I'm not looking for dairy farmers to throw some of their personal money at them...or hold a church gate collection...but it would be rather fair and just if a few quid from Brussels was steered towards a sector that is genuinely experiencing hardship.
That's all.

pedigree 6

wats the craic wrote: »

scanned the cows today all 48 cows that were served are incalf . not a mad mornings work if i do say so . the 12 heifers will be scanned when i take them home from out farm .

Snap. Well nearly.:p
Seems to be a good year again this year.
With my 48 I've 2 not incalf and my 12 heifers they seem all incalf.

[Deleted User]

blackdog1 wrote: »

I strongly disagree. In fact I think we are seriously affecting our market. We have a huge population of coeliacs( people who have trouble digesting wheat)in this country and the world. It's getting bigger every year and for some reason the older wheat varieties like spelt don't seem to upset them half as much. Were going for bigger yields but these wheats are not as digestible as the older variety. It's going to be a huge problem down the road.

On this, in the last year or so breeders have begun to realise this. They were too focused on a narrow band of traits but to get a new variety from inception to market is about 5 years and thats with geno-type marking over the olden type of grow it and see. Crops are becoming too susceptable to disease as they have lost their variation and chems are slowing down in replacement and are slowly unravelling.

[Deleted User]

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

GM offers the solution IMO. A lot less costs to growing crops and a lot more yield. It's the future.

Ireland already is in the top3 for potential yield in the right season, though wheat chemistry is breaking down. I wouldnt be suprised if new actives were kept from the irish market due to the fact sdhi and strobilurins bith droke down within the last 12 years in ireland to septoria added to this how triazoles are failing your left with preventative application like spuds as shorter intervals again.
The only gm cure to this is re-write the crops disease genome and all the goes with that, or go to lower yielding old type varieties to get back variation and breed again from the start. Add to this Irelands moist climate when september harvests are not unknown you need big stinking driers or lots of ventilation to keep wet crop cool which is a pain in humid weather.
World feed stocks are at record highs, how is adding to this pile any benefit to a tillage farmer unless your american with their income insurance schemes.

trixi2011

When do most people scan there main milking herd ? Scanned one herd today and had great results but don't think scanning once in sept is give an accurate enough 6 week . What does every one do .

Mooooo

Would normally be in sept. Have all Ai dates and any that were to the bull would be in calf or not. Are you wondering if you should scan earlier for more accuracy?. Ai dates and scanning once should do. If using bulls maybe not

degetme

trixi2011 wrote: »

When do most people scan there main milking herd ? Scanned one herd today and had great results but don't think scanning once in sept is give an accurate enough 6 week . What does every one do .

20th June and mid August. All ai. Start ai 21st April. Finsh 27th June

whelan2

Used to scan early October. Changed to late August this year. Good to know where you stand

trixi2011

Scanned also 30 days after ài but there's a huge difference in the results over 10% in the 6 week . Hearing all these great results of scanning just wondering are lads fooling themselves with scanning late ?? If I was to use scanning results from today my 6 week incalf would be 90%

Icelandicseige

What paddock size should a herd of 60 cows have ?

trixi2011

Icelandicseige wrote: »

What paddock size should a herd of 60 cows have ?

Not 2 well up on paddock sizes for your herd size but would assume about 1ha for a 36hr grazing.

Mooooo

Icelandicseige wrote: »

What paddock size should a herd of 60 cows have ?

Average rule of thumb is 1 acre would do 34 cows for 24 hours. Edit trixi got there.

GrasstoMilk

60 cows x 16 kg dm intake (assuming 2 kg supplement)
1440kg demand for 1.5 day's grazing.
1500 kg pre grazing cover / ha
50kg residual
So 1ha paddocks.

Timmaay

Don't think I'm even going to bother scanning the incalf heifers. It's usually reasonably obvious

Mooooo

What dmi can cows graze? I see grasstomilk has 18kg overall intake which suits his herd but I'd be feeding more than that. Would 16kg be a good average for the year or would a cow, hol, get in 18kg grazed do ye reckon? Obviously weather and all comes in to it. Winter diet will be made up to 22 kgdm here. Two different forages help intake no doubt

jaymla627

Mooooo wrote: »

What dmi can cows graze? I see grasstomilk has 18kg overall intake which suits his herd but I'd be feeding more than that. Would 16kg be a good average for the year or would a cow, hol, get in 18kg grazed do ye reckon? Obviously weather and all comes in to it. Winter diet will be mad up to 22 kgdm here. Two different forages help intake no doubt

24-27 would be what the intensive indoor units would be feeding, have been on farms where 16kgs dm through concentrates was going in, with maize/silage etc on top....
10% of the herd here would be on 6-9kgs of meal all year round but their the extreme ladies and to be honest they need every bit of it to support the litres their pumping out and get them back in calf

Mooooo

jaymla627 wrote: »

Mooooo wrote: »

What dmi can cows graze? I see grasstomilk has 18kg overall intake which suits his herd but I'd be feeding more than that. Would 16kg be a good average for the year or would a cow, hol, get in 18kg grazed do ye reckon? Obviously weather and all comes in to it. Winter diet will be mad up to 22 kgdm here. Two different forages help intake no doubt

24-27 would be what the intensive indoor units would be feeding, have been on farms where 16kgs dm through concentrates was going in, with maize/silage etc on top....
10% of the herd here would be on 6-9kgs of meal all year round but their the extreme ladies and to be honest they need every bit of it to support the litres their pumping out and get them back in calf

Yes but in terms of grass they can physically graze in a 24 hour period. Is it unrealistic to expect consumption of 18kg of grazed grass

Keepgrowing

trixi2011 wrote: »

Scanned also 30 days after ài but there's a huge difference in the results over 10% in the 6 week . Hearing all these great results of scanning just wondering are lads fooling themselves with scanning late ?? If I was to use scanning results from today my 6 week incalf would be 90%

Don't understand your point. Scanned here yesterday
Herd 1 Mature cows
94% incalf
80% due in first 42days
93 days breeding

Herd 2 Heifers and any cow with a problem calving, Bcs of foot treated
90% in calf
80% due in first 42 days
93 days in calf
Very disappointed with this group. A few older cows not in calf and earmarked for culling but must be counted. I'm really pissed off as 10% of the first calves are empty despite them getting preferential treatment.

jaymla627

Mooooo wrote: »

Yes but in terms of grass they can physically graze in a 24 hour period. Is it unrealistic to expect consumption of 18kg of grazed grass

I personally think from late April to late August provided the weather is reasonably good this is the only period you could expect a cow to get her 18kg dm grass....
3kgs dm silage/3-6kgs nuts fty going in here at the minute and they need every bit of it, you just strip condition of cows this time if year if relying on grass alone and a kilo our two of meal

stanflt

jaymla627 wrote: »

I personally think from late April to late August provided the weather is reasonably good this is the only period you could expect a cow to get her 18kg dm grass....
3kgs dm silage/3-6kgs nuts fty going in here at the minute and they need every bit of it, you just strip condition of cows this time if year if relying on grass alone and a kilo our two of meal

Nice new bull in Eurogene catalogue for you
Fr2325

alps

Mooooo wrote: »

Yes but in terms of grass they can physically graze in a 24 hour period. Is it unrealistic to expect consumption of 18kg of grazed grass

Gonna take flak from grass gurus here, but I think 18 is u reasonable for much of the year....After calving, peak supply, breeding, poor weather....I set up for 16 and end up supplementing at those times which I feel coincides with a cows needs...Will hit 18 mid/late Summer but from mid August reducing to 16 again to extend rotation. .

GrasstoMilk

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Don't understand your point. Scanned here yesterday
Herd 1 Mature cows
94% incalf
80% due in first 42days
93 days breeding

Herd 2 Heifers and any cow with a problem calving, Bcs of foot treated
90% in calf
80% due in first 42 days
93 days in calf
Very disappointed with this group. A few older cows not in calf and earmarked for culling but must be counted. I'm really pissed off as 10% of the first calves are empty despite them getting preferential treatment.

What's mineral status of herd/soil?