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Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Timmaay

24/6/16

Recently we saw three posters close their accounts over disagreements in the dairy threads. While there is a lot of frustration and discontent with current milk prices and the processing industry, the recent tendency for dairy threads to become tit-for-tat arguments isn’t tolerable for those not involved.

All farming sectors go through difficult periods and during such times there may need to be changes in how threads are moderated.

Dairy threads are going to be more closely monitored and subject to stricter moderation for a while.

To that end we won’t tolerate baiting of posters, constantly reviving old arguments, posters with agendas or crusading for a cause.

Whether it’s discussion of the business or politics of the dairy or other sectors, we expect civility and tolerance toward each other and other opinions as diversity of opinion is needed as a source of different ways of looking at a situation.

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert

Also please be aware that what you may post as light-hearted banter can be read totally differently by someone adversely affected by the subject matter and evoke a reaction you hadn’t intended.

The ‘Off-Season’ forum, and its anonymous posting, is available for anyone to chat about their situation.

The Mod Team.

10 away from the 10000 posts! Frazz I think it's fair to say this thread has been a success!

Indeed it was! First thread can be found here- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056872221

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Injuryprone

kowtow wrote: »

Did I misread that or is it 34c break even with drawings etc.?

My reading of that is that his breakeven is 22c for 2016, but if he was to exclude the income from sfp, stock sales and extra fat/protein %, then he would've needed 34c from the milk to breakeven.

Fair enough, going forward stock sales and sfp may not be guaranteed but I don't understand why extra milk solids is included.

awaywithyou

yewtree wrote: »

Very few farmers below 30 cent/litre cash cost when everything included. But as it states in article fat/protein % livestock sales bring totAl output up to break even.
The lad is farming not to far from me, he Got a great opportunity and made the most of it. Industry needs more lads like him.

Fair play to him... But he should acknowledge in his interviews that were it not for his uncle offering his land as security Kevin could have had all the enthusiasm in the world and the best business plans... But He'd have duck all only for his uncle....

Also he sayes he loves milking cows... Yet he only milks his own 8 times a week.... Doesn't sound like a man that loves milking cows.....

Takes a day off every week during the spring... Who does the work those days?? No mention of that....

I have more respect for that lad if he was doing less interviews..... And more work on his uncles farm.....

Having said all above I wish him all the best....

Keepgrowing

Injuryprone wrote: »

My reading of that is that his breakeven is 22c for 2016, but if he was to exclude the income from sfp, stock sales and extra fat/protein %, then he would've needed 34c from the milk to breakeven.

Fair enough, going forward stock sales and sfp may not be guaranteed but I don't understand why extra milk solids is included.

Can you explain the following quote

“For every 1c/L your increase your concentrate costs your overall costs increase by 1.6c/L,” he said.

kowtow

jaymla627 wrote: »

What did I misquote I specially said his breakeven base price was 22 cent a litre, the 34 cent figure I'm finding it difficult to see how it was obtained....
Say solids where giving 4 cent over base and stock sales 3 cent a litre that means without the sfp their was a 5 cent loss that should maybe be pointed out in the article that a new entrant on a 80 hectare rented block with no entitlements would be down 60000 odd grand if he was achieving exactly the same performance and figures

I see where Jay is going with this because on my reading the price of 22c is actually little to do with breakeven in the normal sense, what it really means is "if the base price was below 22c I would be losing money"

The break-even with full costs including, I think, the industrial wage is 34c, as KG says fair play for pointing that out, its a lot more realistic than many of the figures we see bandied about, by the by it is also close (perhaps higher?) than the equivalent figure on plenty of UK farms.

And he can only get to that, even when SFP calf sales etc. are included, if the base price is 22c or higher.

GrasstoMilk

Are lads really that pedantic?
Where do majority of farmers get there land from?
Family!

I don't think he should do any less interviews, great to show young ppl that if they really want it they can't do it.

I wish him the best of luck. I don't want to be working in an industry in 30 yrs where there's no young ppl involved, no enthusiasm and parishes turn into 4 farms.
30 yrs time we will have a generation of kids that are even further again from the land

Timmaay

Keepgrowing wrote: »

The point is he's only breaking even at 34c. It's taking every once of sales and cost control to manage that. I'd salute that article for pointing that out.

We need more of that.

Shame the headline wasn't 34c/litre to break even, instead it was the usual save 35k/yr by being more efficient (aka you all need to race to the bottom quicker!)

C0N0R

Re Kevin Moran, we visited his farm as part of our Dairy Management course, he gave us figures and I grilled him on them and he had no problems explaining them, he is paying rent to his uncles. Ok he is very lucky with the situation he has landed himself in but he had worked hard for it at the same time. Passionate about dairy farming and knew that's what he always wanted to do. A real gentleman and after spending the morning with him you would be motivated about the future of the dairy industry.

jaymla627

C0N0R wrote: »

Re Kevin Moran, we visited his farm as part of our Dairy Management course, he gave us figures and I grilled him on them and he had no problems explaining them, he is paying rent to his uncles. Ok he is very lucky with the situation he has landed himself in but he had worked hard for it at the same time. Passionate about dairy farming and knew that's what he always wanted to do. A real gentleman and after spending the morning with him you would be motivated about the future of the dairy industry.

Is the rent payed to the uncles in question being effectively cancelled out by the sfp he's receiving throught their entitlements our is another say 100 euro an acre being payed on top of this

kowtow

Timmaay wrote: »

Shame the headline wasn't 34c/litre to break even, instead it was the usual save 35k/yr by being more efficient (aka you all need to race to the bottom quicker!)

Agreed.. although I have a funny feeling it wasn't Kevin Moran that wrote the headline, or the article for that matter!

awaywithyou

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Are lads really that pedantic?
Where do majority of farmers get there land from?
Family!

I don't think he should do any less interviews, great to show young ppl that if they really want it they can't do it.

I wish him the best of luck. I don't want to be working in an industry in 30 yrs where there's no young ppl involved, no enthusiasm and parishes turn into 4 farms.
30 yrs time we will have a generation of kids that are even further again from the land

Parishes are turning into 4 farms as it is..... Now with quotas abolished that process has accelerated and will happen sooner rather than later.....

Keepgrowing

If people can't see that as a positive story the Irish dairy industry is bet

freedominacup

Keepgrowing wrote: »

If people can't see that as a positive story the Irish dairy industry is bet

It's generally positive kg but spun to fcuk and you know it. The oulboy was telling me about it on Sat morning, very impressed. We had a full and frank exchange of views on it. I hadn't seen either article at this stage but was well able to fill in the blanks in his interpretation of it. While it is well spun you'd also have to question the whole "wheist" speil we are subjected too continuously. He's in Galway. Home from 0 to 250 cows in a few years. What are the rest of them at?

[Deleted User]

Mooooo wrote: »

Two tillage guys, one I know another I was told off, sell majority of there crops direct to farmer customers be it forage crops, maize or whole crop or beet or rolled barley. Both crowds big acres and not dropping. Seems to be working for them ahead selling to the coops. The one I deal with only plants what he will have sold already more or less

Theres a difference in making money because you have lots of cows vs making lots of money from lots of cows.
That is exactly what i remember saying to the old greengrass 2 years ago will be the future for tillage, forward sell crops at a fixed price per acre with in built margin. It was slightly derided as wasting space for more cows, though things have come crashing into the new reality which will need a while to settle.

Commodity products are a waste of time, our costs are too high for everything.

yewtree

freedominacup wrote: »

It's generally positive kg but spun to fcuk and you know it. The oulboy was telling me about it on Sat morning, very impressed. We had a full and frank exchange of views on it. I hadn't seen either article at this stage but was well able to fill in the blanks in his interpretation of it. While it is well spun you'd also have to question the whole "wheist" speil we are subjected too continuously. He's in Galway. Home from 0 to 250 cows in a few years. What are the rest of them at?

What's the wheist speil?
The opportunity he got was very unusual to get such a big block of land that in effect he had first refusal on. What I admire is he made the most of it, lots of fellas have got big blocks of land and done nothing with it

Keepgrowing

awaywithyou wrote: »

Parishes are turning into 4 farms as it is..... Now with quotas abolished that process has accelerated and will happen sooner rather than later.....

Bring back the land commission, that'll phuck things up for a generation.

Tongue firmly in cheek:)

C0N0R

I have the figures at home, I'll be home in three weeks so can tell you then! Does it make a difference?? I know of a situation where a young fellow was offered a place to rent by a farmer who had been screwed over by tenants time and time again, the guy in question was able to get new entitlements from the national reserve and the value of the entitlements more than covered his outlay in rent.

At the end of the day the uncles are probably better off as they probably end up with more money in their pocket than from when they were beef farming it for a lot less work.

There are lads who can't make a living from land they get given and have no rent and receive all their sfp and have no borrowings, this lad is making the most of the situation he has found himself in, you can't begrudge him that. He freely admits that he couldn't have done a thing without his uncles help re security on loans etc. While he was in ag college he was full time farming also.

[Deleted User]

freedominacup wrote: »

It's generally positive kg but spun to fcuk and you know it. The oulboy was telling me about it on Sat morning, very impressed. We had a full and frank exchange of views on it. I hadn't seen either article at this stage but was well able to fill in the blanks in his interpretation of it. While it is well spun you'd also have to question the whole "wheist" speil we are subjected too continuously. He's in Galway. Home from 0 to 250 cows in a few years. What are the rest of them at?

Most of these farmer of the year competitions pick a candidate that represents the views of the Advertisers behind it(sorry, i mean sponsors). A success story is required atm, maybe next year when milk is heading back in the 30cs it will be a high input herd to maximise potential profits are required.

whelan2

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Most of these farmer of the year competitions pick a candidate that represents the views of the Advertisers behind it(sorry, i mean sponsors). A success story is required atm, maybe next year when milk is heading back in the 30cs it will be a high input herd to maximise potential profits are required.

Last years winner was a pig farmer.

Buford T. Justice XIX

kowtow wrote: »

Agreed.. although I have a funny feeling it wasn't Kevin Moran that wrote the headline, or the article for that matter!

Yeah, Agriland have had some questionable headlines on their site in the last year. I stop looking for ages because they annoy me and that article isn't encouraging me to go back.

[Deleted User]

whelan2 wrote: »

Last years winner was a pig farmer.

Thought it was just the dairy section, sorry.
Still stand by my opinion.

Timmaay

Program about dairying on rte 1 just started now.

mf240

Who does the other 6 milkings. How much did 250 cows cost . How much rent is he paying. Do the uncles work on farm. Are they paid for their time

Water John

I like success for people. Best of luck to him. Though attending Ag College and farming full time, ah please!

mahoney_j

Read the article ,massively impressed with him and his vision as a 23 year old ,who cares if he only milks 8 times a week ,dairy farming is way more than milking cows and physically working on the farm ,there's budgeting of grass and finances etc etc far more important ,
On the cost issue its transparent enough if u read whole article ,34 cent is what it costs him to produce milk ,end of .my issue is the wuoting of the 22 cent ,really irks me and a major flaw of profit monitors ,Tegasc farmers journals,agriland articles etc etc .it gives a totally unrealistic picture of what it costs to produce milk .farmer works for nothing ,land is free and were debt free

awaywithyou

I wonder does he visit boards.ie?? He'll be laughing his head off reading thru some of the ****e that has been posted....

Anyways cows indoors tonight... Bad night here and going by forecast will get worse before it gets better.....

Out of curiosity have many of ye have zero grazers and what Ye're opinion on having one for occasions when there's bad weather??

Dawggone

Timmaay wrote: »

Program about dairying on rte 1 just started now.

Well?

Cows were clean(ish!).

mahoney_j

awaywithyou wrote: »

I wonder does he visit boards.ie?? He'll be laughing his head off reading thru some of the ****e that has been posted....

Anyways cows indoors tonight... Bad night here and going by forecast will get worse before it gets better.....

Out of curiosity have many of ye have zero grazers and what Ye're opinion on having one for occasions when there's bad weather??

Contractor come in for 10 days or so in spring and backend ,no way would I buy one or like to be at it for chunks of the year

Dawggone

awaywithyou wrote: »

I wonder does he visit boards.ie?? He'll be laughing his head off reading thru some of the ****e that has been posted....

Anyways cows indoors tonight... Bad night here and going by forecast will get worse before it gets better.....

Out of curiosity have many of ye have zero grazers and what Ye're opinion on having one for occasions when there's bad weather??

Feck!
Didn't realise the weather has been that bad.
Zerograzers are the work of the devil (:))....tried it a couple of years ago. Won't be going there again.
Then again I suppose they've a place somewhere...

freedominacup

awaywithyou wrote: »

Out of curiosity have many of ye have zero grazers and what Ye're opinion on having one for occasions when there's bad weather??

I saw them in operation in the UK in the nineties. One of the Irish lads on the course with us actually did a few weeks work experience at Ed Walleys the guy who invented the zgrazer featured in last week's journal. Even as a youngfella as green as grass I could see they were highly efficient at separating farmers from cash and time.

Dawggone

freedominacup wrote: »

I saw them in operation in the UK in the nineties. One of the Irish lads on the course with us actually did a few weeks work experience at Ed Walleys the guy who invented the zgrazer featured in last week's journal. Even as a youngfella as green as grass I could see they were highly efficient at separating farmers from cash and time.

"Seperating farmers from cash and TIME".

Emphasis on time...grass certainly isn't that good a feed to waste that kinda money and time...