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"Women needs to face facts about the link between rape and drinking"

Lollipop95

http://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/niamh-horan-women-need-to-face-facts-about-the-link-between-rape-and-drinking-34794279.html

What do people make of this? Having read the article in full, I actually agree with SOME of the points she makes but I find the RSA comparison absurd. Car accidents ARE accidents, rape is anything BUT. I'm also quite disappointed that Niamh didn't focus on more of the onus being on the man not to rape. But it seems like she's trying to get across in the article that that side has already been discussed and she wants to open up another part of the debate

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[Deleted User]

So OP, the rapist is always to blame......

But women shouldn't be getting drunk.....

Right.

[Deleted User]

bubblypop wrote:

So OP, the rapist is always to blame......

bubblypop wrote:

But women shouldn't be getting drunk.....

bubblypop wrote:

Right.

Not at all what was said. Don't be silly

rjpf1980

bubblypop wrote: »

So OP, the rapist is always to blame......

But women shouldn't be getting drunk.....

Right.

What's the problem?

The rapist is 100% responsible.

What's wrong so with telling women of the risks of being raped while intoxicated?

This is the hysterical stuff I'm talking about.

You aren't allowed tell the truth?

Yellow pack crisps

No means No! Being unconscious is not being able to consent. If someone falls and hits their head and becomes unconscious is that to blame for being raped??

Utter ****e when people come out with these things. The only person at fault for rape is the rapist.

[Deleted User]

Yellow pack crisps wrote: »

No means No! Being unconscious is not being able to consent. If someone falls and hits their head and becomes unconscious is that to blame for being raped??

Utter ****e when people come out with these things. The only person at fault for rape is the rapist.

So to recap, the OP comes on and says that a woman is more likely to get raped when intoxicated and states that people become hysterical when confronted with that statistic.

Then, even though he states that the fault lies 100% with the rapist, people become hysterical and accuse him of victim blaming

Point proved I think.

A_Sober_Paddy

The biggest problem we have with rape in this country and it damages genuine rape cases is...

Women who go out get blind drunk have sex with something, who was also blind drunk, but are so drunk they can't remember it, then call rape.

Story Bud?

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

The biggest problem we have with rape in this country and it damages genuine rape cases is...

Women who go out get blind drunk have sex with something, who was also blind drunk, but are so drunk they can't remember it, then call rape.

You think that's the biggest problem we have with rape in this country?

There's me thinking the biggest problem with rape, would be, you know, the rapists.

VinLieger

Deleted User wrote: »

Point proved I think.

Is that point that the OP is guilty of starting numerous click bait threads to try stir controversy and then when things get going abandons them?

Cus that point isnt in doubt

[Deleted User]

rjpf1980 wrote: »

What's the problem?

The rapist is 100% responsible.

What's wrong so with telling women of the risks of being raped while intoxicated?

This is the hysterical stuff I'm talking about.

You aren't allowed tell the truth?

What happens if there are no drunk women anymore? If all the women turn teetotal?
Will that mean no more rapes?

Why don't you educate women on all the other risks to their health & personal safety while drunk? Why do you feel women need to be taught a lesson about their drinking?
I have no problem with everyone being given advice on personal safety, what I do have a problem with is that constantly telling women that they are more likely to be raped when drunk, is in actual fact, not true at all.
It's a lie. And it takes away from the fact that the rapists is in fact responsible for his or her actions.

Anyway, we all know OP that your just trying to come up with controversial threads.

rjpf1980

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

The biggest problem we have with rape in this country and it damages genuine rape cases is...

Women who go out get blind drunk have sex with something, who was also blind drunk, but are so drunk they can't remember it, then call rape.

It IS rape.

Yellow pack crisps

Deleted User wrote: »

Yellow pack crisps wrote: »

No means No! Being unconscious is not being able to consent. If someone falls and hits their head and becomes unconscious is that to blame for being raped??

Utter ****e when people come out with these things. The only person at fault for rape is the rapist.

So to recap, the OP comes on and says that a woman is more likely to get raped when intoxicated and states that people become hysterical when confronted with that statistic.

Then, even though he states that the fault lies 100% with the rapist, people become hysterical and accuse him of victim blaming

Point proved I think.

Big swinging Micky if he says the rapist is 100% to blame it does not dismiss the fact that what he is saying is that women do not have the right to get drunk and that to do so is to be at the mercy of rapists! And it's partly your own fault!

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So to recap, the OP comes on and says that a woman is more likely to get raped when intoxicated and states that people become hysterical when confronted with that statistic.

Then, even though he states that the fault lies 100% with the rapist, people become hysterical and accuse him of victim blaming

Point proved I think.

And where is the proof of the OPs claims?

Sure I could make up any old claim I want now, like 8 out of 10 country lads have had an erection while watching sheep. Doesnt make it true!

Penny Tration

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

The biggest problem we have with rape in this country and it damages genuine rape cases is...

Women who go out get blind drunk have sex with something, who was also blind drunk, but are so drunk they can't remember it, then call rape.

Provocative statement, though I somewhat agree.

There are definitely instances where the woman (or man) was totally incapable of giving consent, because they were absolutely paralytic drunk. In those cases, yeah, it wasn't exactly consent.

However, I have definitely seen women claim rape after regret.

A girl I know did it recently, twice. Had a few drinks, was texting her sister (my friend) without a bother, no badly written texts (she normally can't send coherent texts while drunk), told the sister she was going to sleep with the guy because she liked him. He didn't want a relationship, so now she's telling everyone who'll listen that she didn't want it and was raped - despite being sober enough to give consent and admitting to her sister that she did indeed want it.

Scumbag women like that make believing rape victims more difficult when drink is involved, but that's not to say that some women have sex when they're not capable of consenting, because that absolutely happens.

A_Sober_Paddy

rjpf1980 wrote: »

It IS rape.

If it was truly rape, 80% of Irish women have been raped...regret isn't rape...

Happened a mate of mine, the lady in question had made the same complaint on 4 previous occasions, also 7 witness's who saw her initiating the contact, thrown outta court but mate had to leave the country cause she couldn't, handle her drink

Penny Tration

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

If it was truly rape, 80% of Irish women have been raped...regret isn't rape...

Happened a mate of mine, the lady in question had made the same complaint on 4 previous occasions, also 7 witness's who saw her initiating the contact, thrown outta court but mate had to leave the country cause she couldn't, handle her drink

The fact is though, the law states that the woman must give informed consent. If the woman is absolutely hammered, she cannot give informed consent, thereby making it rape.

If the lady in your post claimed she was raped four times, chances are she DOES remember what happened, because generally if a woman wakes up not knowing what happened or what she's done, she'll relax on the sauce.

LLMMLL

rjpf1980 wrote: »

What's the problem?

The rapist is 100% responsible.

What's wrong so with telling women of the risks of being raped while intoxicated?

This is the hysterical stuff I'm talking about.

You aren't allowed tell the truth?

Drunken rapes are more common not only because the victim is intoxicated but because the perpetrator is intoxicated.

But nobody suggests that men curb their drinking (at least for this particular reason).

If you give your son a lecture about drinking and how IT might make him ignore or not care about whether consent was given then fine, give your daughter a lecture about alcohol and vulnerability to rape.

I'm pretty sure you wouldnt give a son this lecture. Even if you would, you wouldn't start a thread about it.

Whether you think you're victim blaming or not you have a real double standard.

[Deleted User]

Penny Tration wrote: »

The fact is though, the law states that the woman must give informed consent. If the woman is absolutely hammered, she cannot give informed consent, thereby making it rape.

If the lady in your post claimed she was raped four times, chances are she DOES remember what happened, because generally if a woman wakes up not knowing what happened or what she's done, she'll relax on the sauce.

Again... what is informed consent?

A_Sober_Paddy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Again... what is informed consent?

In writing and with a notary

Lux23

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

The biggest problem we have with rape in this country and it damages genuine rape cases is...

Women who go out get blind drunk have sex with something, who was also blind drunk, but are so drunk they can't remember it, then call rape.

I think the biggest problem we have with rape is that some men don't understand what rape is and what consent actually is.

Your post is truly shocking.

Penny Tration

Deleted User wrote: »

Again... what is informed consent?

Um, pretty simple really. It's giving consent with full knowledge of the possible outcomes/consequences. ie if someone is extremely drunk, they may be too drunk to realise that by not using protection, they could get pregnant. They may be too drunk to realise they're risking STDs. They may be so drunk that they think this guy is gonna be a new boyfriend when all he wants is sex (or vice versa with the man).

If you're so drunk you can't walk properly or form proper sentences, you're too drunk to be having sex, basically.

[Deleted User]

Lux23 wrote: »

I think the biggest problem we have with rape is that some men don't understand what rape is and what consent actually is.

Your post is truly shocking.

How is it shocking>? False charges of rape generate anger towards both men and women. Typically it destroys the accused reputation and life. Even when the charges are dropped, the gossip and stigma remains on the accused lifestyle.

As for consent.. when does it end? When can a woman withdraw consent? at penetration, orgasm, or afterwards?

Wibbs

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

People should always be aware of their surroundings and not put themselves in dangerous situations where possible. There are nasty people out there that the courts don't deal with so we need to protect ourselves by being smart about our actions.
Becoming incapacitated by choice is rarely a wise course of action.

This.

bonyn

Lux23 wrote: »

I think the biggest problem we have with rape is that some men don't understand what rape is and what consent actually is.

Your post is truly shocking.

So, in that example 2 blind drunk people raped each other? Or is it a case of when everyone is raped, no one is?

And what if someone gets drunk and masturbates.. are they also a rapist?

Lux23

Penny Tration wrote: »

.

A girl I know did it recently, twice. Had a few drinks, was texting her sister (my friend) without a bother, no badly written texts (she normally can't send coherent texts while drunk), told the sister she was going to sleep with the guy because she liked him. He didn't want a relationship, so now she's telling everyone who'll listen that she didn't want it and was raped - despite being sober enough to give consent and admitting to her sister that she did indeed want it.

You can withdraw consent at any time. Just because you agree to something at some point does not mean you will want it when it comes right down to it. I have gone home with men and decided to leave because it just wasn't doing it for me, thankfully there was no resistance from them but yea I would have sent texts to a friend saying where I was and what I was doing. But that does not constitute consent. The guys I was with were not privy to those texts either. Drawing a conclusion like you just did is very, very dangerous.

Penny Tration

bonyn wrote: »

So, in that example 2 blind drunk people raped each other? Or is it a case of when everyone is raped, no one is?

And what if someone gets drunk and masturbates.. are they also a rapist?

Your analogies with regard to masturbation are ridiculous. Rape is committed by a person, to another person, as well you know.

As for the two drunk people thing, that's a thing I hate about the Irish legislation - in that scenario, in the eyes of the law only the woman is a victim. I 100% disagree with that.

[Deleted User]

Penny Tration wrote: »

Um, pretty simple really. It's giving consent with full knowledge of the possible outcomes/consequences. ie if someone is extremely drunk, they may be too drunk to realise that by not using protection, they could get pregnant. They may be too drunk to realise they're risking STDs. They may be so drunk that they think this guy is gonna be a new boyfriend when all he wants is sex (or vice versa with the man).

If you're so drunk you can't walk properly or form proper sentences, you're too drunk to be having sex, basically.

so the other party is supposed to make that decison that the girl is unable to make an intelligent decision? How is someone to know if the other party is too druk, drugged, etc. when they themselves are intoxicated?

The onus is on the girl or boy for their own safety. IF theyre too drunk to make a decision about sex, then they shouldn't initiate or respond to sexual advances. You're just seeking to pass the buck making women innocent regardless of what happens. WHat happened to equality?

bonyn

Penny Tration wrote: »

Um, pretty simple really. It's giving consent with full knowledge of the possible outcomes/consequences. ie if someone is extremely drunk, they may be too drunk to realise that by not using protection, they could get pregnant.

Bwah ha ha.. oh ffs!
I was so drunk, i forgot the very act i participated in makes babies!
Take a bow, Penny!

Penny Tration

Deleted User wrote: »

How is it shocking>? False charges of rape generate anger towards both men and women. Typically it destroys the accused reputation and life. Even when the charges are dropped, the gossip and stigma remains on the accused lifestyle.

Agreed.

As for consent.. when does it end? When can a woman withdraw consent? at penetration, orgasm, or afterwards?

A woman (I'm using a woman as an example, as you've used a woman as one too) can withdraw consent at any stage - before penetration, after penetration, mid-thrust, before orgasm, after orgasm (eg if the guy hasn't gotten his rocks off yet and is still keen to keep going). Anytime before or during the act, a woman can withdraw consent.

Tbh I hope any of you asking what informed consent is, and when a woman can withdraw consent are being facetious because it's scary to think some men don't actually understand consent.

Penny Tration

bonyn wrote: »

Bwah ha ha.. oh ffs!
I was so drunk, i forgot the very act i participated in makes babies!
Take a bow, Penny!

It happens. Drunk people, in the heat of the moment, forget all about the possibility of pregnancy or STDs. It's nothing new or ridiculous, it's something that happens every single weekend in cities.

Penny Tration

Deleted User wrote: »

so the other party is supposed to make that decison that the girl is unable to make an intelligent decision? How is someone to know if the other party is too druk, drugged, etc. when they themselves are intoxicated?

The onus is on the girl or boy for their own safety. IF theyre too drunk to make a decision about sex, then they shouldn't initiate or respond to sexual advances. You're just seeking to pass the buck making women innocent regardless of what happens. WHat happened to equality?

*sigh* I'm not seeking to pass the buck and make women victims. I DISAGREE with the law that makes only women victims, as I stated. I fully believe that if both a man and woman are locked and have sex, either both are at fault, or neither. If a woman is locked and the man sober, the man is at fault. If the woman is sober and the man is locked, the woman SHOULD be at fault but unfortunately, the law says otherwise, which is horribly sexist.

I disagree with the law as it stands, because it victimises women and demonises men. I simply told you what consent is and when it can be retracted, in the eyes of the law.