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Should motorbikes be banned?

rjpf1980

There are numerous ads on TV asking us to be careful about motorcyclists.

I've had enough of this nonsense.

Motorcyclists are the most reckless and dangerous road users. In cities and towns and on motorways and rural roads they speed and weave through traffic and are a hazard to themselves other drivers and pedestrians.

Disproportionately motorcyclists die or are victims of accidents.

The reason is obvious. The motorcycle if it were invented today would not be allowed on the road. There is no protection for a driver whatsoever even at low speeds or legal speeds. A helmet or padded jacket or jumpsuit is rather flimsy when it comes in contact to the road or a collision with another vehicle. I have relatives who work with the emergency services and the stories they have told me would horrify. Motorcyclists literally get dismembered in high speed accidents.

Cars and other vehicles with the introduction of crumple zones protective structures within the car body and frontal and side air bags and of course seat belts have made crashes much more survivable.

There is literally no way to make lethal motorcycles safer.

Ban them and ban them now.

If people want to commit suicide that's fine. But motorcyclists endanger themselves and society.

Thoughts?

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lawlolawl

ScumLord wrote: »

Slow does not mean safe. It really doesn't, I think this is one message the government should stop promoting.

I'd have to agree with you there. The message being pushed should be for people to actually pay attention when they are driving. The amount of people on the phone, half turned around in their seat talking to a passenger, rubbernecking or eating whilst driving is shocking.

You are in the car to drive. Do that and do it properly.

Only this afternoon on my way to work myself and 4 other cars were stuck behind some middle aged guy for ten minutes who was pootling along at half the speed limit looking in every gateway and over every ditch. He was too dangerous to overtake because he kept drifting into the other lane every few seconds because his eyes weren't on the road.

LordSutch

rjpf1980 wrote: »

Should motorbikes be banned?

A big fat No

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/07/17/article-0-0ED6900B00000578-373_634x493.jpg

But training & road awareness seriously needs to be upped + there really needs to be a much stronger motorcycle cop presence on our roads (as a deterrent) to bad behavour/speeding/swerving/boy bike racing etc . .

Education is the key.

sonofenoch

18 hrs training is now compulsory for anyone getting into biking ......speaking as someone who bought their first bike without even knowing how to fill it up with petrol and out on the road the next day that's no bad thing.....some years later I've lived through to tell the tale ....and probably still could do with some training :rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito

Shenshen wrote: »

Considering that the only times I've seen cars do that they were directly following a police car or ambulance, they don't appear to care all that much.

Youve seen cars on a motorway half in one lane and another passing between 2 cars where theres only 2 lanes?

Ive never seen gards or ambulances do that. They will shift cars out of the way, not drive in between 2 lanes in the gap. The cars in each lane wpuld jave to be pulled right to the out edge of each lane to make a gap remotely big enough

grumpy058

some rubbish talked here. Bikers are not all bad. Car drivers are not all bad. But some are. And they should be off the road. From both camps.

McGixxer

I'm not answering the OP, because it's an obvious troll.

freshpopcorn wrote: »

No, they shouldn't be banned.
I'd however like to see a law that banned them from weaving in between queuing traffic in order for them to skip the que!

I can see where you're coming from. You have to queue, so why shouldn't everyone else, right?

I do love seeing people getting jealous of bike riders because they're sat in a traffic jam and the biker isn't

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Do any motorcyclists EVER obey speed limits?

I can't speak for other bike riders, but I rarely obey speed limits. I ride according to the road conditions. If the conditions dictate I ride slow, I will ride slow. If I'm on a clear, open road, I'll ride faster.

Max Headroom

rjpf1980 wrote: »

There are numerous ads on TV asking us to be careful about motorcyclists.

I've had enough of this nonsense.

Motorcyclists are the most reckless and dangerous road users. In cities and towns and on motorways and rural roads they speed and weave through traffic and are a hazard to themselves other drivers and pedestrians.

Disproportionately motorcyclists die or are victims of accidents.

The reason is obvious. The motorcycle if it were invented today would not be allowed on the road. There is no protection for a driver whatsoever even at low speeds or legal speeds. A helmet or padded jacket or jumpsuit is rather flimsy when it comes in contact to the road or a collision with another vehicle. I have relatives who work with the emergency services and the stories they have told me would horrify. Motorcyclists literally get dismembered in high speed accidents.

Cars and other vehicles with the introduction of crumple zones protective structures within the car body and frontal and side air bags and of course seat belts have made crashes much more survivable.

There is literally no way to make lethal motorcycles safer.

Ban them and ban them now.

If people want to commit suicide that's fine. But motorcyclists endanger themselves and society.

Thoughts?

Thoughts..??......mummy wouldnt let little treasure get a motorbike..boo hoo......cop on...bikes will NEVER be banned...head over to "Shooting" and replace the word "motorcycles" with the word "Guns".....see how far you get...:rolleyes:

rjpf1980

Skylinehead wrote: »

How are they a danger to society exactly?

I think I've explained that already but I'll elaborate.
Motorcycles by their very design allow riders to weave in and out of traffic which is by its very nature extremely hazardous the cause of a whole range of accidents because rider do precisely that creating a danger that drivers in cars and other vehicles moving in lanes cannot safely avoid.
The size of these vehicles and their speed mean drivers of large vehicles cannot see them in time when there are head on collisions in moving traffic
or side on collisions at junctions when drivers of cars and other vehicles pull out into the path of a motorcycle which results in the bike plowing into the side with the driver going under the wheels or being launched into the air for sometimes hundreds of yards and dismembered after their body tumbles and rubs along the roadway.
This is why motorcycle deaths are dis-proportionally high compared to other road users including cyclists and pedestrians.

Herb Powell

Waaaaah, fun police!

rjpf1980

LordSutch wrote: »

A big fat No

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/07/17/article-0-0ED6900B00000578-373_634x493.jpg

But training & road awareness seriously needs to be upped + there really needs to be a much stronger motorcycle cop presence on our roads (as a deterrent) to bad behavour/speeding/swerving/boy bike racing etc . .

Education is the key.

Eliminate bikes in the first place and no education is needed. If they are off the road that is the problem solved. No extra necessary expense in lives or money.

Pac1Man

I always internally give bikers a slow appreciative nod of respect. They sit on a fuel tank and travel with a ridiculous power to weight ratio.

90% are excellent road users, as their life depends on it. Sometimes they are difficult to spot in the rearview mirror and can be on top of you in a flash. Even so, they seem patient and will mostly give a wave of appreciation when I move over slightly to give them room to pass.

McGixxer

rjpf1980 wrote: »

Eliminate bikes in the first place and no education is needed. If they are off the road that is the problem solved. No extra necessary expense in lives or money.

Eliminating cars would reduce biker deaths.
Eliminating jealousy would probably have a similar effect.

rjpf1980

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

Get a bike, take it for a spin, trust me your opinions on banning them will be drastically changed.

I'll say it again.

If motorcycles had not existed for the past century or so and someone invented them today they would not be allowed on the road.

There is zero protection for a cyclist from a collision with another vehicle or contact with the road in the event of a crash except for a crash helmet which cannot stop a head from exploding like a melon, pads on a jacket and trousers or jumpsuit that can be rubbed away in seconds before skin flesh and bone are torn away. The bodies of motorcyclists literally disintegrate at high speeds during crashes. At lower legal speeds death and injury is much higher because there is no physical protection to the rider. He/she is thrown from the bike or crushed under the wheels or flayed alive by the road surface.

I haven't seen one poster refute my argument rationally.

rjpf1980

McGixxer wrote: »

Eliminating cars would reduce biker deaths.
Eliminating jealousy would probably have a similar effect.

What has jealousy got to do with anything?

rjpf1980

Pac1Man wrote: »

I always internally give bikers a slow appreciative nod of respect. They sit on a fuel tank and travel with a ridiculous power to weight ratio.

90% are excellent road users, as their life depends on it. Sometimes they are difficult to spot in the rearview mirror and can be on top of you in a flash. Even so, they seem patient and will mostly give a wave of appreciation when I move over slightly to give them room to pass.

Disproportionally they still die. Eliminate motorcycles from the road and a significant minority of road deaths are non existent.

rjpf1980

Mint Sauce wrote: »

I'm not a biker, but have great respect and time for most. So what about all the drivers who fail to check blind spots, and double check before turning into a main road and end up with a motorbike and rider in the side of their car.

Motorcycles are notoriously hard to see in blind spots because of the shape and size of bikes. Why have this hazard to begin with? Get rid of the bikes. Wider vehicles are by their narrow easier to see in blind spots.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

rjpf1980 wrote: »

There are numerous ads on TV asking us to be careful about motorcyclists.

I've had enough of this nonsense.

Motorcyclists are the most reckless and dangerous road users. In cities and towns and on motorways and rural roads they speed and weave through traffic and are a hazard to themselves other drivers and pedestrians.

Disproportionately motorcyclists die or are victims of accidents.

The reason is obvious. The motorcycle if it were invented today would not be allowed on the road. There is no protection for a driver whatsoever even at low speeds or legal speeds. A helmet or padded jacket or jumpsuit is rather flimsy when it comes in contact to the road or a collision with another vehicle. I have relatives who work with the emergency services and the stories they have told me would horrify. Motorcyclists literally get dismembered in high speed accidents.

Cars and other vehicles with the introduction of crumple zones protective structures within the car body and frontal and side air bags and of course seat belts have made crashes much more survivable.

There is literally no way to make lethal motorcycles safer.

Ban them and ban them now.

If people want to commit suicide that's fine. But motorcyclists endanger themselves and society.

Thoughts?

I've never read such an ill informed nonsensical pile of shyte on boards until now. Wow. You get my thanks.

efanton

rjpf1980 wrote: »

Cars and other vehicles with the introduction of crumple zones protective structures within the car body and frontal and side air bags and of course seat belts have made crashes much more survivable.

There is literally no way to make lethal motorcycles safer.

Ban them and ban them now.

If people want to commit suicide that's fine. But motorcyclists endanger themselves and society.

Thoughts?

You post was sound more like a reason to ban cars than motorbikes.

Why do cars now have to have crumple zones and air bags if not to protect the occupants from other CARS.

the reality is most car drivers are far less capable on the road than the average motorcyclist.
How often do you look in your mirrors?
when was the last time you actually read the rules of the road?

Filtering (or lane splitting as its sometimes called) is perfectly legal for motorbikes, even the gardai do it.
If you looked more often in your mirrors that reckless 'weaving' as you seem to imply is only possible because a motorcyclist has far more awareness of what is going on around them than the average car driver. if you had been looking in your mirrors as often as you should it would neither appear to be reckless nor dangerous as you too would see that the motorcyclist is moving into free space.

the typical family car is far more dangerous on our roads than any motorbike and the statistics back that up. There is a small proportion of drivers and riders that definitely should not be on the road. The difference is the lunatic rider with a death wish is likely to have his wish come true, the lunatic driver with a death wish is far more likely to kill someone else.

McGixxer

rjpf1980 wrote: »

What has jealousy got to do with anything?

You didn't post this thread out of concern for motorcyclists' health

SimonLynch

I drive about 35,000 miles a year and to be honest motorbikes aren't on my radar. If you're watching your mirrors you can always give them a bit of room to get past and you get a thumbs up.

Dublin's a bit different and you get the odd eejit who's new to a motorbike but they're way down the hazard list. Suicidal pedestrians and those bloody free bikes with big grins :-(

Anyroadup, there's no chance you'll see me on one but no way should they be banned.

Roger Hassenforder

rjpf1980 wrote: »

I haven't seen one poster refute my argument rationally.

I'm not so sure you know what "refute" means...

Wigglepuppy

grumpy058 wrote: »

some rubbish talked here. Bikers are not all bad. Car drivers are not all bad. But some are. And they should be off the road. From both camps.

You're doing it wrong. You simply cannot hold a view in the centre like that - you need to pick one "side" dammit, and whatabout and use spurious analogies until your head explodes. It's the ONLY way.

prinzeugen

rjpf1980 wrote: »

I'll say it again.

If motorcycles had not existed for the past century or so and someone invented them today they would not be allowed on the road.

There is zero protection for a cyclist from a collision with another vehicle or contact with the road in the event of a crash except for a crash helmet which cannot stop a head from exploding like a melon, pads on a jacket and trousers or jumpsuit that can be rubbed away in seconds before skin flesh and bone are torn away. The bodies of motorcyclists literally disintegrate at high speeds during crashes. At lower legal speeds death and injury is much higher because there is no physical protection to the rider. He/she is thrown from the bike or crushed under the wheels or flayed alive by the road surface.

I haven't seen one poster refute my argument rationally.

Go and have a look at the EU regulations for motorcycle protective equipment.

Rubbed away in seconds? Don't think so.. I believe the minimum standard is clothing such as jackets/trousers and leathers (not jumpsuits as you call them.. Do you know anything about motorcycling?) has to survive for 10 seconds after hitting the ground at 100kph.

I was side-swiped at 120 kph by a twat on a mobile going down the M4 9 years ago.

Slid along the ground for 140yrds but not so much as a carpet burn.. The gear did its job.

McDave

rjpf1980 wrote: »

There are numerous ads on TV asking us to be careful about motorcyclists.

I've had enough of this nonsense.

Motorcyclists are the most reckless and dangerous road users. In cities and towns and on motorways and rural roads they speed and weave through traffic and are a hazard to themselves other drivers and pedestrians.

Disproportionately motorcyclists die or are victims of accidents.

The reason is obvious. The motorcycle if it were invented today would not be allowed on the road. There is no protection for a driver whatsoever even at low speeds or legal speeds. A helmet or padded jacket or jumpsuit is rather flimsy when it comes in contact to the road or a collision with another vehicle. I have relatives who work with the emergency services and the stories they have told me would horrify. Motorcyclists literally get dismembered in high speed accidents.

Cars and other vehicles with the introduction of crumple zones protective structures within the car body and frontal and side air bags and of course seat belts have made crashes much more survivable.

There is literally no way to make lethal motorcycles safer.

Ban them and ban them now.

If people want to commit suicide that's fine. But motorcyclists endanger themselves and society.

Thoughts?

Good OP.

I'm very reluctant to generalise, but motorcyclists almost universally habitually flout the rules of the road, e.g. overtaking stationary traffic and undertaking in cycle lanes.

As for those 'Polite' jackets? Don't make me laugh (I do every time I see one!). A risible exercise in self-absorbed hypocrisy. Motorcyclist behaviour couldn't be further from that deluded exhortation.

efanton

rjpf1980 wrote: »

Disproportionally they still die. Eliminate motorcycles from the road and a significant minority of road deaths are non existent.

eliminate the car drivers that kill those motorcyclists and you get the same result.

efanton

McDave wrote: »

Good OP.

I'm very reluctant to generalise, but motorcyclists almost universally habitually flout the rules of the road, e.g. overtaking stationary traffic and undertaking in cycle lanes.

As for those 'Polite' jackets? Don't make me laugh (I do every time I see one!). A risible exercise in self-absorbed hypocrisy. Motorcyclist behaviour couldn't be further from that deluded exhortation.

are you even aware of the rules of the road? it appears not. I think you need to get you highway code book out again for a serious refresher course.

It is perfectly legal for motorcyclists to filter between traffic.
In most European countries motorcyclist are entitled to use bus lanes and cycle lanes, unfortunately not in Ireland.

Did it occur to you that if motorcyclist were unable to pass stationary traffic but instead take up position behind stationary cars, that your journey to work would be significantly longer.

Motorbikes take up more far less road space, are far more economical and environmentally friendly, and this has been recognised by cities such as London, where they actually encourage motorcyclists and penalise cars with only a single driver occupying them.
Since they implemented these new rules and applying your logic you would expect that the number of motorcyclists being killed in London would have increased since there is now a far higher proportion of them, but the reality is motorcyclist deaths have dramatically decreased. Unfortunately the cause of death for these motorcyclist has not changed with close to 50% being caused by car drivers when the motorcyclist was riding within the law and rules of the road.

Skylinehead

rjpf1980 wrote: »

I think I've explained that already but I'll elaborate.
Motorcycles by their very design allow riders to weave in and out of traffic which is by its very nature extremely hazardous the cause of a whole range of accidents because rider do precisely that creating a danger that drivers in cars and other vehicles moving in lanes cannot safely avoid.
The size of these vehicles and their speed mean drivers of large vehicles cannot see them in time when there are head on collisions in moving traffic
or side on collisions at junctions when drivers of cars and other vehicles pull out into the path of a motorcycle which results in the bike plowing into the side with the driver going under the wheels or being launched into the air for sometimes hundreds of yards and dismembered after their body tumbles and rubs along the roadway.
This is why motorcycle deaths are dis-proportionally high compared to other road users including cyclists and pedestrians.

Everything you mentioned there harms the biker, but I'm struggling to see where society comes into it. Is this where we start banning things even remotely dangerous? Ban rock climbing, swimming in rivers and lakes etc?

bladespin

McDave wrote:

I'm very reluctant to generalise, but motorcyclists almost universally habitually flout the rules of the road, e.g. overtaking stationary traffic

Lol, this is the standard you have to deal with, shouldn't hold a licence if you don't know the rules of the road.

irish bloke

freshpopcorn wrote: »

No, they shouldn't be banned.
I'd however like to see a law that banned them from weaving in between queuing traffic in order for them to skip the que!

How do you prevent that?

In fairness, that's one of the main advantages of them

arybvtcw0eolkf

rjpf1980 wrote: »

Motorcycles are notoriously hard to see in blind spots because of the shape and size of bikes. Why have this hazard to begin with? Get rid of the bikes. Wider vehicles are by their narrow easier to see in blind spots.

You can see things in 'blind' spots, seriously?.