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Interesting etymologies

[Deleted User]

Knacker is a common pejorative term with a very interesting history.

Did you know it can be traced to the 1570s, where it relates to harness-makers, and describes people who helped farmers with horses (harness-making, castrating, disposing of carcasses)

It can be further traced back to the Old Norse word hnakkur, meaning a saddle. Saddles are fitted just behind the horse's neck, of course, and hnakkur is itself related to the Norse word hnakki, meaning the back of the neck.

Hence, the words neck and knacker are also related. For what can be an offensive term, it has a very long & interesting history. It's a shame that a word of such dignified history has been reduced to a slur.

(Please don't start talking about travellers here, that isn't the point of the thread)

What's your favourite piece of etymology?

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The_Valeyard

This thread is pretty damn cool.

Edit:

Not sure if this is exactly true,

'Murder of Crows' as a collective noun may not simply be to do with traditional association of a violent death, but could be when a crow comes across another dead bird, it will try to find out how it died and prevent it happening to itself.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/10/151003-animals-science-crows-birds-culture-brains/

(pretty cool read)

Widdershins

The colour Puce, which is contentious in itself because people can't seem to agree if it's green or purple /reddish . The word comes from the French , the colour of a flea's belly.

Noveight

I read somewhere that the use of "so long" as opposed to good-bye is a result of American's hearing Irish immigrants saying slán to each other.

Does anyone know any more about that one?

speedboatchase

'Cake walk', meaning 'an absurdly or surprisingly easy task', derives from a 19th century practice in the US where black slaves on plantations were given a cake as a prize for a ceremony in which they competed by performing graceful, stylish walks for their slave owners.

....so try not to use it.

session savage

The word siochán , peace in Irish, cones from two separate words sí and cáin. The sí were the fairies (like bean sí) and cáin is tax in Irish. So peace is actually a fairy tax. The celts used to make sacrifices and offerings to the sí to keep peace.
Essentially the guards are guardians of the fairy tax.

Day Lewin

My favourite etymology concerns the word "hanky".

Originally based on a root word kerchief, which comes from the Norman French couvre-chef, head-cover - a square of cloth intended to be worn on the head.
However you might carry it in your hand, which makes it a hand-kerchief.
But you then place it in your pocket, which makes it a pocket-handkerchief.

Thus, you end up in modern times with still a square of cloth --
intended to cover the head
but carried in the hand
stored in a pocket
principally used for blowing the nose
- and commonly called a hanky!

PowerToWait

speedboatchase wrote: »

'Cake walk', meaning 'an absurdly or surprisingly easy task',
....so try not to use it.

Heard this just last week. Still going to use it.

Rubberlegs

The Cockney slang word "blimey" or "gorblimey" comes from " God blind me".
Similarly "effin' and blinding", effin' is fcukin, as expected. Blinding is derived again from "blind me"

Hercule Poirot

In the 15th to 18th centuries some women and men would go for a pale, white look to accentuate their beauty; the makeup they used would contains elements of lead, mercury, arsenic and sometimes a combination of two or three. Directly applying these substances to their face would lead to scarring of the skin as it was eaten away, the answer was to cover it up by adding more of the makeup and so the vicious cycle continued. Through continued use other symptoms would occur such as irritability, insomnia, decreased mental capacity and even death. People were killing themselves to look good - which gives us the phrase "drop dead gorgeous"

Gyalist

PowerToWait wrote: »

There is a theory that the the use of 'do you dig' to mean 'do you understand', is derived from the Gaelic 'an dtuigeann tu?'.

Apparently black slaves picked it up off Irish guys in the mines of Dakota.

Daniel Cassidy's book - "How the Irish Invented Slang: The Secret Language of the Crossroads" - has long since been discredited.

PowerToWait

Gyalist wrote: »

Daniel Cassidy's book - "How the Irish Invented Slang: The Secret Language of the Crossroads" - has long since been discredited.

Don't tell me, tell Prof. Terry Dolan of UCD, I'm not sure he was aware you had discredited it when he told me.

I wasn't aware if the book you refer to. Just that phrase.

[Deleted User]

The french word for "Weekend" is "Le Weekend" which is derived from the english term for weekend.

[Deleted User]

Candie wrote: »

Denim is so-called because of it's place of manufacture. When this coarse fabric, usually used for hard-wearing work clothing and dyed with indigo dyes - the cheapest to produce - was first produced in Nimes in France in the decades before the turn of the 20th Century, it was shipped to be made into overalls in large bolts which would be tagged with 'Fabrique DeNimes'.

At first it was called De Nimes, but over time it became shortened to Denim.

That was on the English junior cert reading comprehension

FTA69

The word "sinister" comes from the Latin "sinistre" meaning of the left. Being left handed was associated with being improper and generally a pretty bad thing hence eventually giving rise to the word sinister.

Day Lewin

I always thought that the Irish "tuig" (to understand) was the origin of "twig" (vb), not "dig"

as in the British phrase, "I twigged that..." or "he didn't twig it" etc

Esel

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Hmm, eachair sounds a little dubious, and indeed formal. I wonder if there is any recording of the term in old Irish texts.

It might be an etymological co-incidence, a little bit like the word cunt, which clearly has its roots in the Common Germanic (kunto), but prior to that, there are equally valid arguments that it comes from a number of Greek, French and Persian sources. It's difficult to distinguish truth from co-incidence.

It's from memory from Dinneen dictionary.

PowerToWait

The word amok eg he ran amok.

Amok is a Malay word for a state of consciousness induced through demonic possession, specifically an evil tiger spirit.

PowerToWait

katemarch wrote: »

I always thought that the Irish "tuig" (to understand) was the origin of "twig" (vb), not "dig"

as in the British phrase, "I twigged that..." or "he didn't twig it" etc

A very brief look about and it seems that the origin of the slang 'dig' is held to be most likely from Gaelic.

I see no reason why twig could not also be a derivation though had never heard it myself.

Badly Drunk Boy

FTA69 wrote: »

The word "sinister" comes from the Latin "sinistre" meaning of the left. Being left handed was associated with being improper and generally a pretty bad thing hence eventually giving rise to the word sinister.

And the Latin relating to the 'right' is 'dexter', where we get dexterous, meaning skillful, adept.

[Deleted User]

I love etymologies and the related histories of forenames, surnames and placenames. This has been one of my favourite websites for the past 15 years:

Etymology Online

Here's a search on it for "Irish". I spent hours soaking up the results of that search one evening. Enjoy!

sbsquarepants

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

And the Latin relating to the 'right' is 'dexter', where we get dexterous, meaning skillful, adept.

In heraldry the opposite of Dexter is Sinister.
In the show "Dexter" (well worth watching if you haven't seen it) his name was a little nerdy in-joke with the writers. Dexter is actually the polar opposite of what he appears to be. He seems to be mild mannered dexter, he's actually quite sinister.

marienbad

the word niggardly derives form the middle English nyggard and possibly the Old Norse word nigea meaning stingy or mean .

Because of it phonetic similarly to that horrible racial slur , but to which it is completely unrelated , it is falling into the unacceptable category . There have been a number of controversies in the USA over its usage where people have had to resign and such.

One of the more amusing ones which kind of illustrated the mind-set of both nations was back in the 90's when The Economist used it correctly in an article about productivity which prompted an irate letter from an American reader.

To which the magazine blandly replied 'Why do we get such letters only from America''

[Deleted User]

Where did the term 'blackguard' come from?

In Tudor England (c. 1530), royal households were frequently on the move from palace to palace. Such a moved required large convoys of staff, starting with heralds, and splendid carriages, followed by soldiers, and liveried staff, and bringing up the rear there was a rag-tag group of lowly servants carrying kitchen pots, pans and implements. This rear-guard of kitchen & scullery staff was derisively named 'The Black Guard' in contrast with the lavish-liveried men at the front of the convoys. they were mocked and jeered by onlookers.

The Online Etymology Dictionary says that this term later assumed a criminal meaning, during the 1700s

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=blackguard

The term 'quisling' has a similar meaning to blackguard in modern parlance, meaning one who collaborates with the enemy, or a traitor.

Quisling comes from Vidkun Quisling, a creepy Norwegian scoundrel who collaborated with the Nazis to advance his own career, and expelled the Norwegian jews to Nazi concentration camps. He was shot at the end of the war. If you ever visit Oslo, I recommend you go to the Holocaust Museum, which is the former residence of Quisling.

[Deleted User]

uch wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me what an etymologies is?

Meaning has already been given, here's the etymology of 'etymology'.

The earliest trace of the word is found in the 1300's, 'ethimolegia' from the Greek etymologia "

étumon means 'true meaning' in Ancient Greek, from 'étumos' (true, real)
logia means "study of, or to speak of" a particular thing (see elsewhere, -logy, from where we get psychology, theology, physiology, etc)

schizo1014

Hodor has it origins in the phrase 'Hold the Door'

I'll get my coat

lazybones32

The Irish word for a willow tree is saileach but I don't know if this is older than the latin nomenclature given to the tree Salix. There is also a possible link between 'shanty town' and sean tigh (old house).

[Deleted User]

Smashing, as an english toff might say, has allegedly origins in the Irish "Is maith sin". Say it out loud really fast five times.

PowerToWait

Assassin is derived from Arabic Hashashin - a smoker of hash. Though it was commonly held the assassins were so called because they smoked hash in order to enhance their trade, it appears it was in fact used as a derogatory term.

I think.

[Deleted User]

Islam give us some everyday words too. There are spiritual entities in Islam called jinn, which can be good or bad, or both, as people can be. The word genie comes from Jinni - a naughty jinn who promises to make dreams come true but reneges on the deal,

One of very bold Islamic demons is called Ghul, he's a bad guy who delights in decay, death and destruction, and it's from Ghul that we get the word Ghoul.

Esel

Candie wrote: »

Islam give us some everyday words too. There are spiritual entities in Islam called jinn, which can be good or bad, or both, as people can be. The word genie comes from Jinni - a naughty jinn who promises to make dreams come true but reneges on the deal,

One of very bold Islamic demons is called Ghul, he's a bad guy who delights in decay, death and destruction, and it's from Ghul that we get the word Ghoul.

As opposed to the Irish word gabhal...