Not another Immigrant thread!

Speedwell wrote: »

I'm an immigrant to Ireland, born in America, married to an Irish citizen. I wouldn't have a fecking clue what an "American" name is, and if you held a gun to my head and forced me to pretend to write such a list it would probably include British, French, Spanish, and German names, along with some native names translated into their English, French, or Spanish equivalents. My maiden name would not be on the list because immigration has been something of a family hobby for centuries. My immigrant father was born in Hungary to a Jewish family that was at least partially Turkish and Romanian (that's Hungarian border history for you); my mother was born in the US to an immigrant Italian father from Rome (who reportedly left a first wife and family behind with the permanently unfulfilled promise to send for them later) and an immigrant Jewish mother whose family was prominent in religion and the arts in the Minsk area of Belarus. My brother's wife casually refers to herself as a "wetback" for laughs; she was literally carried through the river from Mexico to Texas when she was a tiny baby, illegally of course, not that she had any choice in the matter (she's a US citizen now).

If you applied the immigration laws as they exist as of today in the various countries involved, every member of my family who ever immigrated anywhere in the past would be "illegals", except for me, and they were in the process of changing a law in Ireland that could have made my status questionable if I had entered the country six months later (it probably doesn't apply to me, but I'm not a lawyer). So you can understand if I think that immigration legality and illegality are basically as relevant and valid as whether a half-orc is allowed to wear plate-mail armor according to the most recently published Dungeons and Dragons rulebook. Yeah, yeah, "national sovereignty" and all that, and naturally anyone setting out to deliberately harm people is a criminal, but the vast majority of immigrants are people with the gumption to get off their holes and try to find a place to live and work that is better than where they came from. Deporting them back to their home country doesn't solve the problem, it just makes it someone else's problem. And what, after all, are we in Ireland to do with the Irish who get deported from wherever they are because of some issue that could be more usefully dealt with in the country in which it occurred?

America is a country of immigrants as you exterminated the natives. Ireland is not. You get deported from America if you commit a felony. You sign a paper acknowledging this on your visa application.

kneemos

jacksie66 wrote: »

Boards.ie is gone to the dogs.
Not a day goes by that there isn't a thread about Muslims or whatnot..
Usually just descends in to a shouting match and name calling..

AH wouldn't go to the dogs.Not nearly white middle class enough.

Chuchote

LuckyRoche wrote: »

America is a country of immigrants as you exterminated the natives. Ireland is not. You get deported from America if you commit a felony. You sign a paper acknowledging this on your visa application.

I find Ireland much nicer since we started getting lots of immigrants — better restaurants, better food available in shops, cheery people speaking different languages, wider culture, more and different films and music… Improved the place no end, dar liom!

Chuchote wrote: »

I find Ireland much nicer since we started getting lots of immigrants — better restaurants, better food available in shops, cheery people speaking different languages, wider culture, more and different films and music… Improved the place no end, dar liom!

No arguments there.

But if they commit a serious crime, then they should be immediately sent to Dublin airport upon serving their sentence.

Chuchote

LuckyRoche wrote: »

No arguments there.

But if they commit a serious crime, then they should be immediately sent to Dublin airport upon serving their sentence.

That BBC article from 2007 seemed to suggest that they could be. I assume this is still the case.

LuckyRoche wrote: »

No arguments there.

But if they commit a serious crime, then they should be immediately sent to Dublin airport upon serving their sentence.

What should we do With The Irish that commit serious crime?
Is there anywhere we can send them too?

strandroad

bubblypop wrote: »

I think maybe we should start by giving out proper sentences to our home grown & foreign criminals.
You can't say, foreigners out because they committed a crime but yet allow Irish to rake up 70 & 80 previous convictions.

A bit racist.

I actually find that if a foreign name is involved, the person is more likely to receive what people see as a proper sentence, none of this "mitigating circumstances" stuff or suspended sentences after a whole reel of previous convictions, compo claims seem to be thrown out too. I've never read about a 20 year old foreign lad with a 60 convictions badge of honour either. It's as if there is a particular homegrown persona the law does not want to harm, but amazingly it can be applied otherwise?

bubblypop wrote: »

What should we do With The Irish that commit serious crime?
Is there anywhere we can send them too?

Unless Australia is still up for it, you can't deport natural born citizens anywhere.

bubblypop wrote: »

What should we do With The Irish that commit serious crime?
Is there anywhere we can send them too?

Oh, well done you.

Ulysses Gaze

bubblypop wrote: »

What should we do With The Irish that commit serious crime?
Is there anywhere we can send them too?

Seriously. That's your retort?

http://fermentationwineblog.com/wp-content/uploads/redherring.png

notharrypotter

bubblypop wrote: »

What should we do With The Irish that commit serious crime?
Is there anywhere we can send them too?

There are plenty of islands off the West Coast.

Nope,
This is my retort!

bubblypop wrote: »

I think maybe we should start by giving out proper sentences to our home grown & foreign criminals.
You can't say, foreigners out because they committed a crime but yet allow Irish to rake up 70 & 80 previous convictions.

A bit racist.

bubblypop wrote: »

You can't say, foreigners out because they committed a crime but yet allow Irish to rake up 70 & 80 previous convictions.

A bit racist.

Wanting foreign criminals returned home is racist? The term is wrongly used so much it's beginning to lose all meaning and deflects from very real cases of racism.

LuckyRoche wrote: »

Wanting foreign criminals returned home is racist? The term is wrongly used so much it's beginning to lose all meaning and deflects from very real cases of racism.

Wanting to treat criminals differently based on their nationality kinda is...

LuckyRoche wrote: »

Wanting foreign criminals returned home is racist? The term is wrongly used so much it's beginning to lose all meaning and deflects from very real cases of racism.

Let the hand wringers overuse and abuse it all they want, they'll only undermine their own blinkered little worldview in the long run.

In fact, they've already gone a long way down that road.

Sentencing in this country is a bad joke though, in fairness.

bubblypop wrote: »

Wanting to treat criminals differently based on their nationality kinda is...

Sure it is.

Pelvis Parsley wrote: »

Sure it is.

Explain how it's not?

If someone commits an offence then they deserve to be punished by a sentence that reflects the severity Of The offence.
Why should some be treated differently to others, if they have committed the same crime?

What's wrong with giving them an equal sentence, and then kicking them out?

A proper sentence mind you, as with slick fringed pricks like Anto with fifty previous convictions.

Bubbaclaus

I'm against treating somebody different and more harshly because of their ethnic background or nationality. Also goes against the 4 founding pillars of the European Union.

bubblypop wrote: »

Wanting to treat criminals differently based on their nationality kinda is...

We cannot deport native born citizens as they're Irish. We are perfectly entitled to deport foreign born criminals and revoke their permission to remain in the state. Absolutely nothing racist about that. They've abused their welcome and we've enough of our own homegrown scummers.

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I'm against treating somebody different and more harshly because of their ethnic background or nationality. Also goes against the 4 founding pillars of the European Union.

No it doesn't. You can deport EU citizens if they've become a burden on the state before gaining permanent residency (automatically after five years living in another member state) or if they're a threat to the public.

EU citizens get deported from other EU countries all the time.

old_aussie

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Amazing how some of these places can get by without a proper sewerage system.

You mean like Cork, Donegal and Galway!

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/features/45-urban-areas-in-ireland-discharge-untreated-sewage-into-water-systems-369176.html

Chuchote wrote: »

That BBC article from 2007 seemed to suggest that they could be. I assume this is still the case.

Yes and many deportation orders (non EEA) and exclusion orders are served on prisoners who on release are removed from the state. Just because people don't read about them does not mean they don't happen.

bubblypop wrote: »

Explain how it's not?

If someone commits an offence then they deserve to be punished by a sentence that reflects the severity Of The offence.
Why should some be treated differently to others, if they have committed the same crime?

Because a deportation or exclusion is not a punishment it is allowed in national and international law to deport people who have broken the law.

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I'm against treating somebody different and more harshly because of their ethnic background or nationality. Also goes against the 4 founding pillars of the European Union.

If you ever watched a sentence it is often argued and often accepted that a non Irish person serving a long sentence will have a harder time inside (no family in the country etc) so will be given less time. Also judges take into account the immigration difficulty that is deportation which may follow.

Samaris

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I'm against treating somebody different and more harshly because of their ethnic background or nationality. Also goes against the 4 founding pillars of the European Union.

Generally I am too. I do have to look at this particular case and wonder if it's a different matter though.

Racially profiling foreigners (or those that look foreign, or those that fit into a specific group of people) with an idea that they'll commit crimes because they are foreign - wrong

Punishing people more harshly for the same offence because they are foreign - wrong

And yet...

We can't do anything more against our homegrown scumbags. The state has a duty of care to them even when they commit crimes because they were born here and frankly, are our problem.

If you do have a foreign national applying for Irish citizenship, or living in the country, who commits crimes, thus abusing the Irish system that took them in, there is a further "nope, we're not dealing with your bull****, we have enough other bull**** to get on with" by sending them back to the country that has ultimate responsibility for one of its own people. This should absolutely not reflect on all the other people who happen to share a nationality with him/her though. This specific person is no longer welcome because they're a pita. They just happen to be a pita that can be sent back to their own legal system to waste their money instead.

mitchconnor16

EU nationals with felonies shouldn't be allowed into the country in the first place. You'll find with most of them who enter the country who go onto to commit crime already have racked up a couple of convictions back home. Reintroducing proper border controls like most sane countries do is only way to rid us of this vermin.