Facilities in Ireland / Overseas (mini rant)

Coffee Fulled Runner wrote: »

The Gaa have a lot to answer for here.

In terms of being the only organisation to put a sports facility in every parish in the country?

Yes. The GAA is the only organisation that has stepped up to the plate. They have had cultural and historical advantages though, and have assiduously used them. You have to admire them. If other sports had only half the focus...

In my area in South Kerry, we have a few GAA pitches, a couple of golf courses, soccer pitches, rugby pitches, tennis courts, basketball courts, gyms, a swimming pool etc. No lack of facilities. We don't even have an athletics club. That's not the GAA's fault.

kit3

Coffee Fulled Runner wrote: »

The Gaa have a lot to answer for here.

?? Why knock the ones who are actually doing something ?

Don't be fooled. Australia has one of the highest obesity rates in the world, and they easily defeat us in that regard. And they have such ideal weather for being outdoors which makes it all the more staggering. On a one block stretch on Elizabeth St in Melbourne stretching from the Flinders St station and Collins St you'll find possibly the highest concentration of complete and utter sh1te food: McDonalds, Lord of the Fries, Spanish Donut, Cone Head, some greasy pizza place, and many more. I've never seen such a choice for awful fast food.

Australia is a country of extremes. People are either fat or fit, with little in between.

Sporting facilities in the cities though dwarf that of Irish cities though. The athletics setup is far better in Melbourne than here IMO. Unlike here, they have a strong tradition in succeeding in field events in athletics down to good facilities and coaching. We are absolutely nowhere in these disciplines.

Their Olympic record dwarfs every nations on a per capita basis (except maybe some Carrebean nations), which is all the more impressive when you consider their biggest sports (Aussie Rules, Rugby League, Cricket, Rugby Union) are not Olympic sports. Here we use that as an excuse for our poor Olympic record. Over there, they excel across the board.

However if you go to backward rural towns you'll see even more obesity, far less facilities, and a dominance of Aussie Rules in most states, akin to the GAA stranglehold.

Also worth noting, from what I've been told by people in athletics in Melbourne, there is just one 400m synthetic track in not only all of Adelaide, but all of South Australia, which I found staggering, as theres loads in Melbourne.

Another thing that should be mentioned is that Australia has a real outdoors lifestyle due to the weather it gets (though it can get too hot, and Northern areas get a lot of rain in wet season so it's not as picture perfect as Irish people think). There's free to use public BBQs in most parks. People tend to bring down an esky as they call it (cooler box full of beer and meat) and spend the afternoon eating and drinking in the sunshine, but also kicking a ball around, throwing a frisbee or playing a bit of cricket. Here our social occasions would almost always be in the pub (not that they don't go to the pub there too).

In terms of athletics facilities I'm even more impressed by Paris. Within a one mile radius in a suburban area there were 5 athletics tracks, free to use, in better condition than most Irish tracks, and open from around 8am to 10pm, with a member of staff at the door. These are public sporting facilities. Imagine having that kind of set up!

Chartsengrafs

That's a 'mini rant'!!??

Chivito550 wrote: »

Also worth noting, from what I've been told by people in athletics in Melbourne, there is just one 400m synthetic track in not only all of Adelaide, but all of South Australia, which I found staggering, as theres loads in Melbourne.

Another thing that should be mentioned is that Australia has a real outdoors lifestyle due to the weather it gets (though it can get too hot, and Northern areas get a lot of rain in wet season so it's not as picture perfect as Irish people think). There's free to use public BBQs in most parks. People tend to bring down an esky as they call it (cooler box full of beer and meat) and spend the afternoon eating and drinking in the sunshine, but also kicking a ball around, throwing a frisbee or playing a bit of cricket. Here our social occasions would almost always be in the pub (not that they don't go to the pub there too).

In terms of athletics facilities I'm even more impressed by Paris. Within a one mile radius in a suburban area there were 5 athletics tracks, free to use, in better condition than most Irish tracks, and open from around 8am to 10pm, with a member of staff at the door. These are public sporting facilities. Imagine having that kind of set up!

You go outside Paris and the facilities are alot less. I am just back from Hols in france, go to the same place every year, there is 5 towns within 15 mins of us and there is not one track! Now there is 3 horse racing tracks and a few football pitches!

Amadeus 2014 wrote: »

[font=Verdana, sans-serif]So I have moved to Oz (humblebrag and yes it is amazing) and started to get back into proper training rather than just bumbling about. First speed session (3 * 1km @ race pace w/ full recoveries) and I needed somewhere flat so I went to the local sports fields where I thought I had seen a track marked around a pitch.[/font]

[font=Verdana, sans-serif]And I had - it seemed accurately measured and while it was on grass it had all the proper markings, was flat and firm and perfect for what I needed. There were a couple of other "vets" doing speedwork on their own and a couple of lads that looked like tidy club level runners also doing thier own thing. Up in one corner of the field were two jump pits, one long jump and one triple jump. Both were properly marked out with run up areas, etc and there were three juniors being put through thier paces - it looked quite technical and they were clearly focussing on run up and approach. There were also three separate fitness "bootcamps" with probably 20 people between them doing thier thing and a full blown underage squad doing rugby training on the pitch itself. I didn't hear much of the coaching over my ragged breathing but I did hear the coach calling out to the players "don't just drift across the pitch, if you move then move with purpose, if you need to then stop and take a step back to look before you move", simple enough but good to hear practical tactical advice on off the ball movement and the importance of thinking before you act on a pitch being drilled into a group of U-12's. Round the back, past the large modern clubhouse whose cafe counter was doing a brisk trade with parents, there is a skate park that was jammed with people of all ages, alongside a couple of basketball courts where another underage team was training, a couple of netball courts, again with juniors training and a tennis court. The cricket nets were empty though (it is close season) as were the dedicated discus and hammer pens. The main field (full AFL pitch and 3 full size baseball diamonds) were also not being used though they are very busy other nights and all weekend. Across the large, free, carpark the public pool looked busy too. All in superb condition, all owned by the NSW government and all (apart from the pool) free to use for the general public.[/font]

[font=Verdana, sans-serif]Which got me thinking - almost every adult I have met in Sydney is involved in some sort of sport or exercise. The guy opposite gets up before dawn to surf before work. One of my team is on his way to the gym before 5am four days a week. Two others play vets soccer, one of thier wives plays netball. Another is a sailor. There are a couple of runners and one competitive cyclist. And those are just the ones I have spoken too.[/font]

[font=Verdana, sans-serif]Coincidentally Australia has won 495 Olympic medals with 145 golds. They are double world Rugby champions (beaten finalists twice as well) despite Union being the lesser of the two rugby codes here. They have a 14 Wimbledon champions (12 men). They have world champions on both two and four wheels in motorsports. They have one of the worlds elite cricket teams. 11 aussie males have won a golf major.[/font]

[font=Verdana, sans-serif]The population is roughly four times bigger than ours but the level of success and general sports participation is massively disproportionate[/font]

Back home most parishes have a hard scrabble GAA or soccer pitch. There are clubs and facilities available in pockets, especially in the cities. But the standard, accessibility and use of the facilities is nowhere near the same. The standard of coaching in team sports is really variable and everything runs at lowest possible cost and on goodwill and promises. I get that the government is financially pressed but even when it wasn't and at a time when obesity at all levels is developing into a genuine public health crisis there is no appetite to create or support sports facilities. And this isn't about support at an elite level (although better facilities should in time trigger a "trickle up" of talent). It's about making a healthy, active lifestyle a viable option for people as an alternative to sitting on the couch watching X Factor. If a far flung and bang average suburb in Australia can have excellent facilities publicly supported and free for use why can't towns in Ireland that have a simaler population? Or am I mad and if people want to do sport they should pay for it and not expect subsidies?

I think your a bit harsh, there is plenty of facilities in Ireland, but not for athletics. In the town I grew up, we would of had loads of soccer clubs, gaa clubs with their own pitches, golf clubs, tennis clubs, sailing clubs, indoor basket ball and football halls. And I am sure there is others I have forgotten.

Sadly for Athletics, its a very minor sport in Ireland, the age profile for it is not great, I know that with our club, more senior than Junior members, most seniors are over 40!

Hopefully in years to come it will get better alot needs to change for that to happen, including working with other sports.

average_runner wrote: »

You go outside Paris and the facilities are alot less. I am just back from Hols in france, go to the same place every year, there is 5 towns within 15 mins of us and there is not one track! Now there is 3 horse racing tracks and a few football pitches!

For sure. Facilities in rural towns in many countries will be poor. But comparing just that one small one mile radius of Paris to all of Dublin and you can see how far behind we are. No such thing as a public free to use track here. No such thing as a nightmare trying to get track time over there if one track is suddenly out of commission.

average_runner wrote: »

I think your a bit harsh, there is plenty of facilities in Ireland, but not for athletics. In the town I grew up, we would of had loads of soccer clubs, gaa clubs with their own pitches, golf clubs, tennis clubs, sailing clubs, indoor basket ball and football halls. And I am sure there is others I have forgotten.

Sadly for Athletics, its a very minor sport in Ireland, the age profile for it is not great, I know that with our club, more senior than Junior members, most seniors are over 40!

Hopefully in years to come it will get better alot needs to change for that to happen, including working with other sports.

Tennis, basketball and sailing are even more minority here than athletics is.

In my club around 75% of members are juveniles at a guess. In fact the problem with athletics is that the ratio of juniors to seniors is too high. Your club is an exception in that regard.

ThisRegard

A proper mini rant is why the expectation that we're all jealous not to be living in Australia.

Chivito550 wrote: »

Tennis, basketball and sailing are even more minority here than athletics is.

In my club around 75% of members are juveniles at a guess. In fact the problem with athletics is that the ratio of juniors to seniors is too high. Your club is an exception in that regard.

I agree those sports are more minority, was never implying otherwise, but more facilties for tennis and basketball in Ireland for them.

These are old figures:
http://www.corkathletics.org/AAI-Registration/2015/Updated-AAI-Registered-Membership-Figures-for-June-2015.html#Top_50_Clubs_-_Nationally

Looks like most clubs have more senior and masters than juveniles, even crusaders!

ThisRegard wrote: »

A proper mini rant is why the expectation that we're all jealous not to be living in Australia.

Australia is nice, Melbourne my fav, but give me Ireland any day.

RayCun

recent figures are here
Nationally, there are 30,000 juveniles, 16,000 Masters, 4,000 Seniors, and 358 Juniors.
Those numbers will probably go up by a few thousand by the end of the year. They're up about a thousand on this time last year

In my club, and I'm guessing in most clubs, juveniles are registered immediately. We take roll calls, the competitions they enter require them to be registered, there are coaches and registrars who know who is at training and will chase up on registration. If a juvenile gets hurt at training and they aren't registered, questions will be asked.
With the adults, there are no roll calls, people join in at random sessions, and many do races that don't require AAI membership. If an adult is injured at training and they weren't registered, that's (at least partially) their own fault. So adult membership trickles in through the year

Chivito550 wrote: »

For sure. Facilities in rural towns in many countries will be poor. But comparing just that one small one mile radius of Paris to all of Dublin and you can see how far behind we are. No such thing as a public free to use track here. No such thing as a nightmare trying to get track time over there if one track is suddenly out of commission.

Agree with you there. Our cinder track is a public track, can be used when the club is not using it, just turn up. This will change when the proper track goes down, mainly to protect the track from getting vandalised, sad it is but has to be this way.

RayCun wrote: »

recent figures are here
Nationally, there are 30,000 juveniles, 16,000 Masters, 4,000 Seniors, and 358 Juniors.
Those numbers will probably go up by a few thousand by the end of the year. They're up about a thousand on this time last year

Nearly half the clubs in Dublin have more adults than juniors!!

Those figures are a bit off though, as some of the junveniles fall under family membership and do not train.

I would like to see fit4life numbers in there too, as we run that on a Monday and Wednesday night as part of the club, but they wouldn't be members yet.

RayCun

average_runner wrote: »

Nearly half the clubs in Dublin have more adults than juniors!!

'junior' is a very specific age. u19 to u23? There's a big dropoff there, kids finish school, go to college, break with their old routines.

There are a fair few clubs that don't have a juvenile section, but where there is a juvenile section it is usually bigger than the adult section. (and usually would be even bigger if there were more coaches available)

average_runner wrote: »

I would like to see fit4life numbers in there too, as we run that on a Monday and Wednesday night as part of the club, but they wouldn't be members yet.

I think a few clubs don't register Fit4Life members. Why not? For insurance if nothing else.

TFBubendorfer

RayCun wrote: »

I think a few clubs don't register Fit4Life members. Why not? For insurance if nothing else.

Our club stopped registering Fit4Life members after the AAI took their cut of €17 per person. No idea how that works with insurance (prefer not to know, to be honest)

RayCun

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Our club stopped registering Fit4Life members after the AAI took their cut of €17 per person. No idea how that works with insurance (prefer not to know, to be honest)

Part of the registration with AAI covers your insurance. If they're not registered with them, they're not insured.
€17 a year is not a lot of money!

ThisRegard wrote: »

A proper mini rant is why the expectation that we're all jealous not to be living in Australia.

For a bit balance:

- 16,000km from home
- expensive flights home so trips are rare, so you can become disconnected with home
- Lack of culture
- Boring ugly architecture for the most part.
- Travelling abroad is a complete grind. No weekend trips to Paris, Rome or Copenhagen. There's only so often you can do a trip to Auckland or Wellington before getting bored.
- Small mindedness and arrogance. People who have never been abroad yet still think Australia is the greatest place on earth.
- Inherent racism
- Irish jokes in the work place. Unprofessional, inappropriate and offensive.
- The damn AFL gets a stupid amount of coverage.
- Idiotic politicians such as Tony Abbott
- Consistent 35-42 degree days in summer, with many homes not having aircon, and most homes having dreadful insulation.
- House prices even more ridiculous than here.
- Urban sprawl
- Bushfires destroying people's houses.
- Appalling levels of obesity.
- Macho culture among males.
- Bogans
- Full of GAA wearing Irish who stay together in hoards getting locked and making holy shows of themselves and the country.
- Car culture
- Awful levels of homesickness.
- Australian TV and the ridiculous number of ad breaks.

I love Australia, in particular Melbourne, and I don't need to list all the awesome things I love about the place as I've done it to death. But let's not think it's some kind of utopia.

Ivan Milat...
The Snowtown Murders...
And...weirdest of all...those Beaumont Children...

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ivan Milat...
The Snowtown Murders...
And...weirdest of all...those Beaumont Children...

Appalling treatment of Aboriginal people is the worst of the lot, historically and even still.

Every country has their good points and bad points.

OP is correct that Australia has far better sporting infrastructure than we have. That is fact.

Chivito550 wrote: »

Appalling treatment of Aboriginal people is the worst of the lot, historically and even still...

Actually, good point, and for the purposes of this thread...for all the facilities referred to by the OP, most of us could only name one Indigenous Australian athlete...

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Actually, good point, and for the purposes of this thread...for all the facilities referred to by the OP, most of us could only name one Indigenous Australian athlete...

Not correct. http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/sport/famous-aboriginal-athletes#axzz4EWcPiHS2

Chivito550 wrote: »

Not correct. http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/sport/famous-aboriginal-athletes#axzz4EWcPiHS2

I'd be surprised if many athletes apart from Cathy Freeman were well known.

Yes, we could all name Indigenous rugby players and Australian Rules players. And Yvonne Goolagong of course. But athletes?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd be surprised if many athletes apart from Cathy Freeman were well known.

Yes, we could all name Indigenous rugby players and Australian Rules players. And Yvonne Goolagong of course. But athletes?

Josh "The Boss" Ross
Patrick Johnson (9.93 for 100m, first man not of African decent to break 10 secs).

How many Australian athletes in general can you name? Then take 2% of that total to reflect the Aboriginal population. Iceland have a similar population. How many Icelandic track and field athletes can you name?

walshb

If I don't know them they can't be well known!

walshb wrote: »

If I don't know them they can't be well known!

Freeman represents 2% of the population. Extrapolate that to the whole population that's 50 athletes. Can you name 50 Australian track and field athletes? I doubt it.

Chivito550 wrote: »

Josh "The Boss" Ross
Patrick Johnson (9.93 for 100m, first man not of African decent to break 10 secs).

How many Australian athletes in general can you name? Then take 2% of that total to reflect the Aboriginal population. Iceland have a similar population. How many Icelandic track and field athletes can you name?

Hands up.

I'm a bit lost!

It was you, afair, who referred to referred to the appalling treatment of aborigines. I pointed out that one might agree with you, particularly in the context of this thread, given that so few seem to have made the breakthrough in track and field.

And now you seem to be take issue with that. So, specifically in the context of this thread and access to track and field facilities, again the topic here, they have not been treated badly?