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Phoenix Park tunnel: 4 trains per hour from 2016

Lenton Lane

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monument

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

But they already have a good selection of service into Heuston, why do they need more?

This service is catering for those who work in central Dublin and might take this option, I don't see why a P10 stop is needed.

The goal should be to offer everybody as high as frequently as is practically possible. If there isn't potential uptake for higher frequently on the Kildare route we might as well give up on Dart Underground.

Markcheese

L1011 wrote:

Eventually I found walking 8km a day from the 66 at Liffey Valley was actually quickest - but that was as a 19 year old with an endless supply of minidiscs for entertainment. I then decided to drive...

If only you'd heard of bicycles :-)
Seriously while dublin could do with more linking of modes of transport,and an orbital service/system, slowing down "intercity" services isnt a great idea..

LXFlyer

In time I think a station where P10 is located should be built, with another platform on the inbound (up) side, with access to/from Conyngham Road. That is going to be tricky given the clearance issues - it would need a station concourse to be built over the tracks to a point where ramps could be installed to access the platforms. But only when service levels actually justify it.

People seem to be forgetting that this is a low cost project, with plans only for one train per hour off-peak and, despite the thread title, only two or three trains per hour at peak.

The funds are not there right now for anything more and I think people need to reflect that in their expectations.

Heuston will continue to be served by all of the current services, facilitating anyone travelling to/from points west of O'Connell Bridge.

LXFlyer

Just to add that platform 10 can only be accessed by terminating trains from the Kildare line, and by through trains from the PPT. There is no crossover north of the platform to facilitate access for trains to Connolly. There may well be clearance issues that prevent such a crossover being installed.

Hence you would have to add another platform, and that was outside the scope of this project, as it would significantly increase the costs as to build it would require an accessible footbridge to be installed.

Having used P10 in the past, I can say that expecting people to walk from the front of the main station is not practical - there would have to be a connecting bus.

As I said in my previous post - a Conyngham Road station would be a more realistic goal, but only when there is a realistic service level to warrant it.

L1011

Markcheese wrote: »

If only you'd heard of bicycles :-)
Seriously while dublin could do with more linking of modes of transport,and an orbital service/system, slowing down "intercity" services isnt a great idea..

Can't carry them on the bus to Liffey Valley, full trip unrealistic due to length, terrain and road type

spacetweek

L1011 wrote: »

Can't carry them on the bus to Liffey Valley, full trip unrealistic due to length, terrain and road type

Yes, we don't allow bicycles on buses in Ireland unless I'm mistaken.

Okon

Markcheese wrote: »

Seriously while dublin could do with more linking of modes of transport,and an orbital service/system, slowing down "intercity" services isnt a great idea..

Slow them down? Speed them up I say! Unnecessary extra stops wouldn't be my idea of fun. It's faster our Inter-City routes need to be getting.

trellheim

Or going to more central locations, if this is a success you might well see a couple of IC trains routed to Connolly or GCD

Grandeeod

trellheim wrote: »

Or going to more central locations, if this is a success you might well see a couple of IC trains routed to Connolly or GCD

"SHUDDER":D

While it would be interesting, I have no doubt there will be a lot of excuses as to why it can't be done.

Del.Monte

Even a through express between Cork and Belfast - heaven forbid. :rolleyes:

savagethegoat

not least the impact it would have on regular interval services.

Jamie2k9

trellheim wrote: »

Or going to more central locations, if this is a success you might well see a couple of IC trains routed to Connolly or GCD

Not a hope, would destroy IC services for little gain.

The goal should be to offer everybody as high as frequently as is practically possible. If there isn't potential uptake for higher frequently on the Kildare route we might as well give up on Dart Underground.

I wish we would, biggest wast of money ever, big cost little benefit and the N Commuter line which delivers best profit per km to IE hasn't a penny invested and demand on such a route is only going to grow. Proper investment on Maynooth and containing the M3 Parkway etc is what's needed.

These flash new projects are papering over the cracks.

IE management must be pushing for funding for the existing network to deliver a high quality service and not the low quality service on a network which operating like they do a bit of patch work here and there every now and again.

Grandeeod

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not a hope, would destroy IC services for little gain.

Explain?

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

Or going to more central locations, if this is a success you might well see a couple of IC trains routed to Connolly or GCD

Good luck in finding paths to do it.

I really don't see that happening - certainly not to GCD and unlikely to Connolly either. IC trains need servicing and that is not going to happen at GCD.

Given Cork trains will virtually all be Mk 4 operated again, with turnarounds of less than an hour that would be tricky. Most other IC trains have other services to operate - they don't lie idle at Heuston for long. Set diagrams don't leave much room for manoeuvre.

Bear in mind too that for anywhere west of O'Connell Bridge, Heuston and bus/tram will be faster than train to Connolly/Tara St and walk.

This line re-opening is aimed purely at the commuter market.

Jamie2k9

Grandeeod wrote: »

Explain?

It's just not really practical from an operational point of view and I expect if you asked passengers for feedback most would like improved journey times to Heuston than going to Connolly.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not a hope, would destroy IC services for little gain.

in what way would would it destroy IC services? the little gain would be offering through trains direct to the city centre.

I wish we would, biggest wast of money ever, big cost little benefit and the N Commuter line which delivers best profit per km to IE hasn't a penny invested and demand on such a route is only going to grow. Proper investment on Maynooth and containing the M3 Parkway etc is what's needed.

These flash new projects are papering over the cracks.

DU is certainly not a waste of money, and the huge capacity it would release is of huge benefit to the dublin area. we can invest in both the maynooth and DU, it doesn't have to be 1 or the other. the money will be there. containing the m3 parkway is not a good idea, the trains need to be direct and they offer more capacity on the clonsilla- city centre corridor. these projects offer more then "papering over the cracks" however they are a huge part of a big solution to the problem of lack of future capacity on the dublin area rail network.

Grandeeod

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It's just not really practical from an operational point of view and I expect if you asked passengers for feedback most would like improved journey times to Heuston than going to Connolly.

Cheers.

You have raised two particular issues.

The operational side, which we know can be affected by all sorts of issues from both a technical aspect and an industrial relations aspect. I'll park that one for now.

As for passenger feedback, we really don't know. Improved journey times are improved journey times and just that, no matter where they are departing from or arriving. I really believe that a lot more thinking outside the "box that is always shut" needs to happen. I hate "crayonism", so it annoys me to be even suggesting the following, but looking at the Businesses around the GCD area, how would fast IC train services to the likes of Cork and Belfast be considered if departing from GCD.

Jamie2k9

end of the road wrote: »

DU is certainly not a waste of money, and the huge capacity it would release is of huge benefit to the dublin area. we can invest in both the maynooth and DU, it doesn't have to be 1 or the other. the money will be there. containing the m3 parkway is not a good idea, the trains need to be direct and they offer more capacity on the clonsilla- city centre corridor. these projects offer more then "papering over the cracks" however they are a huge part of a big solution to the problem of lack of future capacity on the dublin area rail network.

It delivers capacity in the city center but that's all, there would be minimal benefit. Just look at lack of investment on N Commuter, Maynooth and poor decisions in relation to Intercity network

* - Belfast-Dublin - Getting Slower Every New Timetable, full N Commuter should be electrified
* - DART - Getting Slower
* - Maynooth Line - LC's not removed/automated slowing trains, not electrified
* - GalwayWestport/Tralee/Rosslare - Speeds more less confined to 80mph or less because of signalling and infrastructural issues through lack of investment and poor decisions by IE.

New new city signalling systems will deliver (up to 20 trains per hour?) between Connolly & GCD and given that takes into account a 10 minute DART, N Commuter, Kildare and Maynooth there is still 30-40% to grow capacity and I don't see the DART getting more frequent than 10 minutes so that leaves the rest it will be a long time before they take up the slack.

I am not against DU but feel that there is significant better ROI before it should be considered and passengers would benefit in better ways. The current network needs investment and soon, the long finger will have to end at some stage.

tabbey

Del.Monte wrote: »

Even a through express between Cork and Belfast - heaven forbid. :rolleyes:

In 1947 that was called enterprise.

IrishZeus

Hi,

I've been trying to find out if there will be any trains running from Sallins & Naas train station through the tunnel to Connolly when it opens? We've recently moved into the area and my wife will be travelling to Connolly daily from the end of the year, so it would be a huge bonus for us.

Thanks for any info!

LXFlyer

IrishZeus wrote: »

Hi,

I've been trying to find out if there will be any trains running from Sallins & Naas train station through the tunnel to Connolly when it opens? We've recently moved into the area and my wife will be travelling to Connolly daily from the end of the year, so it would be a huge bonus for us.

Thanks for any info!

Yes there should be - but schedule information has yet to be released.

Roughly two trains per hour at peak and one off-peak.

LXFlyer

I understand that stage 9 of the third phase of the city centre resignalling project will happen next weekend, with a closure between Connolly and Dun Laoghaire on Sunday and commissioning happening in the early hours of Monday morning.

This will see the up main line slewed to serve platform 1 at Grand Canal Dock and platform 2 converted into a turnback platform with no through route anymore. At least one poster here should be happy to hear this!!

flyingsnail

For anybody having problems visualising the works here is a quick diagram of what should be the final layout.
Platform 1 used to be the out of use platform will now be the up platform
Platform 2 used to be the up platform will now be a dead end bay only accessible from the Pearse end. (In Blue)
Platform 3 remains the same
The red is the Boston and up sidings.

D.L.R.

flyingsnail wrote: »

For anybody having problems visualising the works here is a quick diagram of what should be the final layout.
Platform 1 used to be the out of use platform will now be the up platform
Platform 2 used to be the up platform will now be a dead end bay only accessible from the Pearse end. (In Blue)
Platform 3 remains the same
The red is the Boston and up sidings.

What's the benefit of switching the Up line to P1?

LXFlyer

D.L.R. wrote: »

What's the benefit of switching the Up line to P1?

Trains can terminate in P2 directly from Pearse without having to cross over the up line, thus not disrupting through trains in the opposite direction.

trellheim

It seems a reduction in flexibility not to have pointwork for the up main to get into P2 as well , and an obvious omission. What is the reason ? Is it signalling overlap or something , avoid the complexity of approach control ?

Vic_08

trellheim wrote: »

It seems a reduction in flexibility not to have pointwork for the up main to get into P2 as well , and an obvious omission. What is the reason ? Is it signalling overlap or something , avoid the complexity of approach control ?

Reducing cost by not having to include an extra set of points and signalling for a route that would rarely if ever be needed.

end of the road

Vic_08 wrote: »

Reducing cost by not having to include an extra set of points and signalling for a route that would rarely if ever be needed.

well let's hope that such isn't needed.

Vic_08

end of the road wrote: »

well let's hope that such isn't needed.

Can you think of any <reasonable> scenario in which it would?

stop

Vic_08 wrote: »

Can you think of any <reasonable> scenario in which it would?

Unit fails on P1?