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Forgiveness

tomofson

Forgiveness??? Is it just a word? Has the meaning of forgiveness being lost on society these days... Cause it certainly seems that way. Every time there is a murder victim on the news if he has any sort of criminal conviction people are so unforgiving towards that person even if hes convictions are for the most minor and petty offences. I understand a part of that is snobbery because people find it hard to identify or feel any sort of empathy towards those they consider to be part of the "underclass" a lack of understanding that those in the "underclass" actually had no chance in which the circumstances they where born into.... But thats a thread for another day what this thread is about is forgiveness is it a lost concept that has no place in todays society???? Please I want to read your opinions on this...

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dinorebel

Cant forgive the writing style.

LightsStillOn

I forgive you for that block of writing.

tomofson

dinorebel wrote: »

Cant forgive the writing style.

I never claimed to be an academic pal so deal with it

Renegade Mechanic

Depends on what the forgiveness is for, tbh.
Dent my car? Ok, accidents happen. Not happy but I'll get over it...

Eat my last slice of lasagne however and you are ****ing dead to me.

Shenshen

I think privately, most people are forgiving enough. But in a group, or even worse on the internet? They enjoy being outraged much more.

tomofson

Shenshen wrote: »

I think privately, most people are forgiving enough. But in a group, or even worse on the internet? They enjoy being outraged much more.

Hyperbole is the word.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

What do you think yourself?

Uriel.

tomofson wrote: »

Forgiveness??? Is it just a word? Has the meaning of forgiveness being lost on society these days...

Why forgive scumbaggery? A lot murder victims on the news had it coming to them. It's not as if theyve repented and changed their ways or anything. It's not as if they're sorry for the things they've done to people and the suffering they've caused etc.

ongarboy

tomofson wrote: »

Forgiveness??? Is it just a word? Has the meaning of forgiveness being lost on society these days... Cause it certainly seems that way. Every time there is a murder victim on the news if he has any sort of criminal conviction people are so unforgiving towards that person even if hes convictions are for the most minor and petty offences. I understand a part of that is snobbery because people find it hard to identify or feel any sort of empathy towards those they consider to be part of the "underclass" a lack of understand that the people in the "underclass" actually had no chance in which the circumstances they where born into.... But thats a thread for another day what this thread is about is forgiveness is it a lost concept that has no place in todays society???? Please I want to read your opinions on this...

Come back to us when an innocent loved one of yours has been beaten up, seriously injured and hospitalised due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time by someone who had 163 previous convictions for violent assault yet manages to freely roam the streets. Feel free to then wax lyrical about your empathy, lack of snobbery and rush to unconditionally forgive!

_Brian

Have to admit I'm a very unforgiving person, when someone crosses me intentionally I'm done with them. My life is too busy to be bothered trying to understand nasty people and I just cut them off completly, this includes family members.
I've rebuffed apologies because I just couldn't be bothered - I find most people apologise to make themselves feel better rather than anything else.

On boards I use the ignore button and hate to see that persons posts quoted as I really just don't want to see them again.

tomofson

Uriel. wrote: »

Why forgive scumbaggery? A lot murder victims on the news had it coming to them. It's not as if theyve repented and changed their ways or anything. It's not as if they're sorry for the things they've done to people and the suffering they've caused etc.

Prime example of an unforgiving person right here.... The real reason you label them as scumbags is because you are uncomfortable with their social "class" your type labelled them with in the first place.

tomofson

_Brian wrote: »

Have to admit I'm a very unforgiving person, when someone crosses me intentionally I'm done with them. My life is too busy to be bothered trying to understand nasty people and I just cut them off completly, this includes family members.
I've rebuffed apologies because I just couldn't be bothered - I find most people apologise to make themselves feel better rather than anything else.

On boards I use the ignore button and hate to see that persons posts quoted as I really just don't want to see them again.

I understand you have to look after yourself first and cut out the negativity thats just a simple act of survival... I'm talking about holding a deep seeded hate filled grudge against someone, like that will do you no good part of forgiveness is being able to move on without taking all that emotion with you.

Minderbinder

"You seem to think that saying the word 'sorry' makes up for any wrongdoing." Guess who said that to me?

tomofson

Minderbinder wrote: »

"You seem to think that saying the word 'sorry' makes up for any wrongdoing." Guess who said that to me?

Im going to guess your ma

But its not about the word sorry more about societies prejudices.

_Brian

tomofson wrote: »

I understand you have to look after yourself first and cut out the negativity thats just a simple act of survival... I'm talking about holding a deep seeded hate filled grudge against someone, like that will do you no good part of forgiveness is being able to move on without taking all that emotion with you.

Oh I have a special shortlist of people that I just detest the fact that they are on the face of the earth - i do hate real well.

tomofson

_Brian wrote: »

Oh I have a special shortlist of people that I just detest the fact that they are on the face of the earth - i do hate real well.

Thats only because your a powerless person in your actual life so hate filled fantasies are the only places you get to be a shot caller.

Badly Drunk Boy

_Brian wrote: »

Oh I have a special shortlist of people that I just detest the fact that they are on the face of the earth - i do hate real well.

Have you considered removing these people from the face of the earth? Tomofson isn't impressed by our murder rates.

tomofson

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

Have you considered removing these people from the face of the earth? Tomofson isn't impressed by our murder rates.

I am actually impressed by the murder rate I like to see it as low as possible and preferably none... But I certainly do appreciate a bit of good humour

ToddyDoody

I'll generally consider any apologies that may be offered

Estrellita

tomofson wrote: »

Forgiveness??? Is it just a word? Has the meaning of forgiveness being lost on society these days... Cause it certainly seems that way. Every time there is a murder victim on the news if he has any sort of criminal conviction people are so unforgiving towards that person even if hes convictions are for the most minor and petty offences. I understand a part of that is snobbery because people find it hard to identify or feel any sort of empathy towards those they consider to be part of the "underclass" a lack of understanding that those in the "underclass" actually had no chance in which the circumstances they where born into.... But thats a thread for another day what this thread is about is forgiveness is it a lost concept that has no place in todays society???? Please I want to read your opinions on this...

Its far easier to forgive those who are genuinely sorry, than those that are only sorry they were caught.

tomofson

Estrellita wrote: »

Its far easier to forgive those who are genuinely sorry, than those that are only sorry they were caught.

I think the fact someone is not sorry shows how lost and confused they actually are.

tomofson

ongarboy wrote: »

Come back to us when an innocent loved one of yours has been beaten up, seriously injured and hospitalised due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time by someone who had 163 previous convictions for violent assault yet manages to freely roam the streets. Feel free to then wax lyrical about your empathy, lack of snobbery and rush to unconditionally forgive!

I don't have to come back when that happens cause I have been the victim of that in the past... I understand in those circumstances forgiveness is difficult but it is doable. A lot of people dont understand the meaning of forgiveness, I will simplify it for your small mind. It is not excusing the actions but moving past what happened.

smash

Yep. You're definitely rivalling kneemos.

Estrellita

tomofson wrote: »

I have been the victim of that in the past... I understand in those circumstances forgiveness is difficult but it is doable.

I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. So I assume you have forgiven the assailant(s)?

tomofson

Estrellita wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. So I assume you have forgiven the assailant(s)?

Of course I have I wouldn't be preaching forgiveness if I wasn't willing to put in the effort myself.

suicide_circus

Forgiveness is for the weak

tomofson

suicide_circus wrote: »

Forgiveness is for the weak

Thats why most suicide victims are hate filled depressives with revenge fantasies...

Calhoun

tomofson wrote: »

I don't have to come back when that happens cause I have been the victim of that in the past... I understand in those circumstances forgiveness is difficult but it is doable. A lot of people dont understand the meaning of forgiveness, I will simplify it for your small mind. It is not excusing the actions but moving past what happened.

Quite funny how at odd this post is with the original post, like most "liberals" the mask slips when not agreed with and wanting to hear opinion is actually wanting to hear the echo bounce back.

To answer your question i think people full well know what forgiveness is but how can people in this society move past anything when from the optics it looks like there is no justice being done for allot of crimes in this country. All you need is a good sob story and you will generally get off lightly.

Sometimes when bad cases happen as you describe in the op sure it's sad and all that but people find it very hard to be empathic.

tomofson

Calhoun wrote: »

Quite funny how at odd this post is with the original post, like most "liberals" the mask slips when not agreed with and wanting to hear opinion is actually wanting to hear the echo bounce back.

To answer your question i think people full well know what forgiveness is but how can people in this society move past anything when from the optics it looks like there is no justice being done for allot of crimes in this country. All you need is a good sob story and you will generally get off lightly.

Sometimes when bad cases happen as you describe in the op sure it's sad and all that but people find it very hard to be empathic.

How did a mask slip??? If someone gives me attitude I'll give it back its that simple, saying that I wont be hating that person for the rest of me life over it.

Justice is being done in this country just not the sort of justice use all want. Does it never occur to you those sob stories might be true??? Well of course it doesn't cause that would go against your own bias but I can tell you for a fact most are... If you plant a flower wrong it grows badly its that simple if you abuse a child they will have lifelong problems and some of those problems come in violent ways...

FortySeven

This is an incredibly complex issue for me but I am capable of forgiveness and I think that forgiveness is born of empathy and understanding. Other aspects of it can seem quite selfish, I know that part of forgiveness can be the avoidance of guilt in oneself. I try to forgive, most of my life has been extraordinarily harsh and I have sucked it up and pushed it in and thought I was forgiving but I wasn't. I was just filling a part of me with something I don't really understand but I have come to at least recognise.

I forgave my father, he abused me badly and I spent my life hating him but still loving him. I did not understand why he did this to me and so I could not deal with it. When he was diagnosed with cancer last year I went to see him for the first time in a very long time. Looking at that frail, dying man made me realise that the human condition is uncontrolled, we strive to be our best and we try to conform to the norms but we are imperfect and capable of great wrongs. My father went through a bad divorce when I was two, he lost his future during the miners strike of thatchers doing. He took on someone else's children and tried to raise 5 kids. He was just a man.

I forgave him that day, not because he deserved it, not because he had become a better man or made amends but because there was good in him, he just got it wrong. I lost a father but he had lost a son and I knew I could not carry on with the hate. I did not tell him I forgave him, I was polite and made small talk until it was time to go and then I hugged him, it was our first physical contact in 30 years and it was to be our last. He died a few months ago. A lonely man who didn't even have a funeral because nobody would have gone.

I feel sorry for him now, there were many years I would have celebrated his death but not now. Now I wish I had forgiven him sooner.

There are others I am trying to forgive but they are not finished hurting me yet. We'll get there, I only hope it will not be on somebodies deathbed again.

And just a quick note on the 'scumbag' question. I don't even know how many convictions I have. It is a lot. I have served prison time. My life was a shambles, I've been a drug addict, an alcoholic and a waster. I spent years claiming dole and I didn't finish school.

Scumbag. Proper scumbag.

I have also, put those things behind me, reformed my criminal ways a long time ago, I don't drink, I don't do drugs I work full time and I try to raise my children responsibly. I turned my life around 15 years ago and would hate to think if I was to die that I would be remembered for my failings, my children never saw them, nobody on boards has had to put up with them, my epitaph should not be polluted by them. I often find myself thinking 'sure, they deserved it' when I hear of some person shot in a gangland hit but then I remember that I too nearly died that way, that I have the history that they have held against them and I wonder do they sit crying writing messages on boards about their dysfunctional father and forgiveness?

Life is far from black and white. Scumbags are born from adversity, addiction, poverty and abuse. Some of us get out of it, some don't.