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Child Item

Treating paedophiles

JuliusCaesar

There was an article/letter in the BPS magazine which mentioned Project Dunkelfeld - a free German psychotherapeutic programme to treat paedophiles and prevent child abuse. I googled it and found a presentation by some of those involved - it looks very interesting. Here's a recent article.

Remember that this is the Science > Psychology forum, and not a forum for hysteria.

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the_syco

Therapy for pedophiles/hebephiles in the Dunkelfeld can alter child sexual offending DRF and reduce-related behaviors.

What does it mean by "DRF"?

jobbridge4life

Not coming from this with psychological expertise, but with a background in criminology it definitely looks promising. Honestly I am surprised the programme has been able to operate at all given the aforementioned hysteria.

Semele

Brilliant- I heard about this a while back and have told others about it but could never remember what it was called or any other details!

Thanks for linking.

The Black Oil

DRF seems to be dynamic risk factors, as per the study link.

I heard about this somewhere - I think in the media - This American Life, possibly.

Less on topic, but I'm reminded of the COPINE project that used to be in Cork. Not sure it's still on the go. There are a few papers around that I had a look at whilst in college, not something you'd sit down and read at your leisure.

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089%2F109493103321168009

http://www.probation.ie/pws/websitepublishingdec09.nsf/AttachmentsByTitle/IPJ+2008+-+The+COPINE+Project,+ETHEL+QUAYLE/$FILE/2008+-+The+COPINE+Project,+ETHEL+QUAYLE.pdf

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/229652487_Child_pornography_and_the_Internet_Perpetuating_a_cycle_of_abuse

Also, Louis Theroux has a documentary from a few years back wherein he spends time in a prison with sexual offenders. There's a psychologist in that uses some sort of method (maybe this) to work with the men. Part of the assessment involves - at least in the documentary - checking their physical response in the trouser department.

Valmont

14.5% of the sample were 'diagnosed' as being sexually attracted to adults?

Also worrying is that only eighty participants completed the treatment with 203 being labelled 'treatment deniers' - anyone know what this means specifically? I can only access the slideshow.

JuliusCaesar

Here's the abstract of the study linked above (there have been other studies too):

Original Research
The German Dunkelfeld Project: A Pilot Study to Prevent Child Sexual Abuse and the Use of Child Abusive Images

Klaus M. Beier MD, PhD,
Dorit Grundmann MSc,
Laura F. Kuhle MSc,
Gerold Scherner MSc,
Anna Konrad MSc and
Till Amelung MD*

Article first published online: 4 DEC 2014

DOI: 10.1111/jsm.12785

© 2014 International Society for Sexual Medicine

Issue
Cover image for Vol. 11 Issue 12 The Journal of Sexual Medicine

Keywords:

Pedophilia;
Prevention;
Therapy;
Child Sexual Abuse;
Child Abusive Images

Abstract

Introduction
Sexual interest toward prepubescents and pubescents (pedophilia and hebephilia) constitutes a major risk factor for child sexual abuse (CSA) and viewing of child abusive images, i.e., child pornography offenses (CPO). Most child sexual exploitation involving CSA and CPO are undetected and unprosecuted in the “Dunkelfeld” (German: “dark field”).

Aim
This study assesses a treatment program to enhance behavioral control and reduce associated dynamic risk factors (DRF) in self-motivated pedophiles/hebephiles in the Dunkelfeld.

Methods
Between 2005 and 2011, 319 undetected help-seeking pedophiles and hebephiles expressed interest in taking part in an anonymous and confidential 1-year-treatment program using broad cognitive behavioral methodology in the Prevention Project Dunkelfeld. Therapy was assessed using nonrandomized waiting list control design (n = 53 treated group [TG]; n = 22 untreated control group [CG]).

Main Outcome Measures
Self-reported pre-/posttreatment DRF changes were assessed and compared with CG. Offending behavior characteristics were also assessed via self-reporting.

Results
No pre-/postassessment changes occurred in the control group. Emotional deficits and offense-supportive cognitions decreased in the TG; posttherapy sexual self-regulation increased. Treatment-related changes were distributed unequally across offender groups. None of the offending behavior reported for the TG was identified as such by the legal authorities. However, five of 25 CSA offenders and 29 of 32 CPO offenders reported ongoing behaviors under therapy.

Conclusions
Therapy for pedophiles/hebephiles in the Dunkelfeld can alter child sexual offending DRF and reduce-related behaviors. Unidentified, unlawful child sexual exploitative behaviors are more prevalent in this population than in officially reported recidivism. Further research into factors predictive of problematic sexual behaviors in the Dunkelfeld is warranted.

Beier KM, Grundmann D, Kuhle LF, Scherner G, Konrad A, and Amelung T. The German Dunkelfeld Project: A pilot study to prevent child sexual abuse and the use of child abusive images. J Sex Med **;**:**–**.

Yes, it's not clear what "ongoing behaviours" means in the abstract - could be anything from actual offending to masturbation.

But at this point any treatment is better than NO treatment. These are mostly self-identified men, who are uncomfortable about their orientation - uncomfortable enough to contact the treaters voluntarily and attend for treatment.

I don't think the project in UCC continued beyond the principal researchers leaving to go to another university - I may be wrong though.

The Black Oil

Valmont wrote: »

14.5% of the sample were 'diagnosed' as being sexually attracted to adults?

Also worrying is that only eighty participants completed the treatment with 203 being labelled 'treatment deniers' - anyone know what this means specifically? I can only access the slideshow.

Curious about this, too. I've emailed the researchers to ask.

Valmont

It's especially puzzling considering all of the subjects were volunteers who wanted help, why would they then 'deny' the treatment offered? Could it be that it wasn't effective and the researchers have ran around the issue with the mother of all euphemisms? Anyway I don't know but I'll be curious to see what they say.

The Black Oil

I'm going to do some more digging on the Project as there was some stuff on Google Scholar when I checked a few weeks back.

Anyway, I got a response from them. Didn't think I would as I had to use a contact form thing.

"Treatment deniers“ are those potential participants who took part in the first interview and were principally eligible for treatment offered at our site. Nevertheless many of those cannot participate in therapy sessions on a regular basis as they might live too far away, may meanwhile have found a treatment option closer to their home, cannot organize participation due to job duties etc. Generally spoken these are those people who meet the inclusion criteria, get the information that we would offer them participation in the program but deny or have to deny due to different reasons and respond “ no thank you, at the moment I cannot participate “ – it has to be stated that those who deny treatment are always welcome to contact us in future to see how we can support or take up therapy if their perequisites change…

Best regards

g.scherner

Sounds like quite practical reasons, then.

The Black Oil

Although the individual is deceased and afaik, the inquiry historical, I don't want to delve into the particular case that's in the news headlines at the moment.

There's talk of this individual having been 'diagnosed' a paedophile. a) how, outside of a conviction, is such behaviour observed and b) what are the criteria for the dx, if this process still occurs?

jobbridge4life

Is it BS?

The Black Oil

Recent BBC documentary about treating sex offenders. It was on after midnight, so I didn't listen live. MP3 link here.

The Black Oil

Gave that a listen this morning. Sobering and non-sensationalist, as expected. I'm going to send the link to the researcher whose email I quoted earlier in the thread. I thought the Dutch "Stop It Now", perspective was very interesting including that they didn't seem to get any backlash about it, if I understood correctly.

The Black Oil

Long, but worthwhile piece in the Irish Times - interviews with people who have been abused and those who work in the area.

In the UK the Stop It Now! helpline encourages men or their families who are concerned about potentially harmful behaviour to get help before a child is abused. In Germany, Prevention Project Dunkelfeld offers therapy to paedophiles and hebephiles who have not offended.

In Ireland clinicians have lobbied for a Stop It Now! programme, to little avail. Keith O’Reilly, the Temple Street social worker, and Nick Bankes, the clinical psychologist, are among those who have called for more therapeutic interventions to stop potential abusers from ever offending and stop existing abusers from reoffending.

And the usual Irish story, a lack of resources.

Coming up next week.

Beyond Redemption?, a Would You Believe? special on RTÉ One at 10.15pm on Thursday, October 20th, looks at the way we deal with sex offenders who have been released back into society

JuliusCaesar

Yes, I read the article yesterday on incest, and thought it was a really good account - especially as it said that most fathers/brothers/mothers who force sexual relations on a child aren't really paedophiles but are "interested in grooming a family and a child and exercising power and control". They are "not primarily interested in sexual gratification". "Sex abusers tend to marginalised, lonely and isolate men with poor boundaries and a poor sense of self who can't form proper relationships with adults" and also have "narcissistic traits".

Treating these people (90% male) would do a lot to prevent abuse.

An excellent article and I'd urge everyone involved in the caring professions to read it.

The Black Oil

It was refreshing to read an article from the frontline.

Isolation underlines so many issues.

The Black Oil

Well, India appears to be going down the castration route. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37694475

The Black Oil

The Would You Believe doc was very good. Can't imagine public perception changing, though. Got to hand it to the church members in Canada. Not an easy thing to do.

The Black Oil

Another worthy piece in the Times.

A mother and her young son board a train and sit opposite a fortysomething man. When they get up to disembark the man’s smile towards the blond boy takes on a troubled edge. “Do you love children a little more than you like?” asks the advertisement on TV screens on Berlin’s U-Bahn trains. The final message – “Don’t become a perpetrator” – is also the name of a groundbreaking paedophile research and therapy programme.

The campaign began in Berlin 11 years ago and now operates in 10 cities across Germany. About 7,000 people have made contact, and about 1,000 paedophiles – people who are sexually attracted to children – have received therapy.

JuliusCaesar

I wonder are there any such programmes here....

dar100

The Black Oil wrote: »

Another worthy piece in the Times.

The article this came from, I believe.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/germany-s-secret-paedophilia-experiment-1.2897942

The state handing over children in care to paedophiles, as a research experiment. You'd hope nothing like this happens in this day and age. However, recent information on how the Child and Family Agency has handled placements of children in the not to distanced past, is not encouraging

JuliusCaesar

There were a lot of things that were seen as radical and progressive and so on in the late 60s/early 70s. There was a backlash against stultifying norms and conventionality and unfortunately sometimes the baby got thrown out with the bathwater, the swing was in some cases WAY too far. Sometimes it was a good thing though - I certainly don't think we would have got to the current acceptance of different sexualities if this hadn't happened, and it was probably crucial in the secularisation of society in general.

SO, some of the wild and radical ideas turned out to be plain nuts, or criminal. And it's entirely regrettable that they happened at all. And some people may have been plying their own agenda. Don't forget PIE was claiming respectability and quoting Freudian child-sexuality mish-mash, so it sounded good, and they were taken seriously by respectable media/journalists. (PIE = Paedophile Information Exchange, for you youngsters who don't remember this time period

)

Jimmy Bottlehead

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I wonder are there any such programmes here....

I don't believe so, from the research I did recently. Dunkelfeld is very successful, but in the UK and Ireland at present, I understand you need to commit a crime against a minor before you'll receive help. Pre-crime assistance is not available.

dar100

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I don't believe so, from the research I did recently. Dunkelfeld is very successful, but in the UK and Ireland at present, I understand you need to commit a crime against a minor before you'll receive help. Pre-crime assistance is not available.

Ireland is mainly a reactionary Country, historically we do little in the realm of prevention. Some areas such as Early years intervention, and to a limited extent substance use, have started to get better with this

We seem to be stuck in a fire fighting, crisis type way of working with people.

The Black Oil

Decent piece on BBC radio 4 this morning. Skip to 1 hour 10 minutes.

This is largely owing to the recent comments (according to the Guardian) of Simon Bailey.

Simon Bailey, the National Police Chiefs’ Council lead for child protection, said police were struggling to cope with the huge numbers of criminals looking at indecent images of children online and should focus their resources on high-risk offenders.

“There are undoubtedly tens of thousands of men that are seeking to exploit children online with a view to meeting them, with a view to then raping them and performing the most awful sexual abuse upon them,” said Bailey, the head of Operation Hydrant, the nationwide inquiry into historical child sexual abuse.

“That’s where I believe our focus has got to be. They are the individuals that pose the really significant threat.”

There was push back from Labour MP Yvette Cooper, as per the Guardian article.

Radio 4 piece also includes commentary from the Lucy Faithfull Foundation.

Sad that numbers are increasing. Disturbing.

Original clip with Bailey here.

Freedive Ireland

Aside from publishing the address and possibly endangering others, the comments on the article are also worrying. http://sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=44582

euser1984

I think it's becoming to realize that paedophiles and child molestors are different things.
Just like some people are homo-sexual or bi-sexual as sexual preference, some are turned on by young people....the problem is identifying whether the person will do something to a child. These people need to be able to talk about these problems with professionals so they can cope and realize it's not fair to do that to a minor - and i'm talking about people that don't want to harm others.
apperently the figure can be 1 out of every 35 people can be turned on by a minor....it's a complex issue but in the uk paedophiles are being treated differently when reported due to how many of them they are....the resources just aren't there to criminalise them.

Would you like to be made a criminal if you had a twin brother and he liked "hot spicy chicken curry" and you didn't.....if the hot spicy curry was illegal not to like then there is something wrong with you? It's a strange complex world that humans exist in.

dar100

euser1984 wrote: »

I think it's becoming to realize that paedophiles and child molestors are different things.
Just like some people are homo-sexual or bi-sexual as sexual preference, some are turned on by young people....the problem is identifying whether the person will do something to a child. These people need to be able to talk about these problems with professionals so they can cope and realize it's not fair to do that to a minor - and i'm talking about people that don't want to harm others.
apperently the figure can be 1 out of every 35 people can be turned on by a minor....it's a complex issue but in the uk paedophiles are being treated differently when reported due to how many of them they are....the resources just aren't there to criminalise them.

Would you like to be made a criminal if you had a twin brother and he liked "hot spicy chicken curry" and you didn't.....if the hot spicy curry was illegal not to like then there is something wrong with you? It's a strange complex world that humans exist in.

Hot spicy chicken curry is not going to be extremely traumatised by a predictors sick act now, is it?

euser1984

dar100 wrote: »

euser1984 wrote: »

I think it's becoming to realize that paedophiles and child molestors are different things.
Just like some people are homo-sexual or bi-sexual as sexual preference, some are turned on by young people....the problem is identifying whether the person will do something to a child. These people need to be able to talk about these problems with professionals so they can cope and realize it's not fair to do that to a minor - and i'm talking about people that don't want to harm others.
apperently the figure can be 1 out of every 35 people can be turned on by a minor....it's a complex issue but in the uk paedophiles are being treated differently when reported due to how many of them they are....the resources just aren't there to criminalise them.

Would you like to be made a criminal if you had a twin brother and he liked "hot spicy chicken curry" and you didn't.....if the hot spicy curry was illegal not to like then there is something wrong with you? It's a strange complex world that humans exist in.

Hot spicy chicken curry is not going to be extremely traumatised by a predictors sick act now, is it?

ahhhh, it was a bad example but taking that out of what I'm saying is completely negligible. I suppose I didn't think too much about going to the trouble of creating a better example because; this is not as far as I can see a thread that is designed to be sensitive towards peoples feelings on the subject.

JuliusCaesar

My original post about Project Dunkelfeld stated that there are a great many men whose sexual orientation is towards children or young teenagers, but who are horrified by their urges. Project Dunkelfeld was started to treat these men, who were afraid to seek treatment themselves, fearing that they would be arrested even though they had never acted on their desires.

The paedophiles/hebephiles who do believe that children enjoy their attentions, who do not believe that children or young teenagers are traumatised, are much more likely to act on their desires. And, it might be, only come to treatment when forced to, because of having been arrested and sent to Jail.

Both kinds of paedophiles/hebephiles - the ones who are horrified by themselves, and the ones who think it's fine to act on their desires - need treatment.

The point that Project Dunklefeld made was that by treating the inactive men, it is preventative work. And apparently they have been quite successful in treating them. It's interesting that P Dunklefeld does quite a bit of social skills training.

I think (have no evidence) that the ones who are active, who have abused, who deny that what they do IS abuse, are much much harder to treat.