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Condition of bunkers and depth of sand

pissedasanewt

I have a general query on course design / condition.

I played a very fancy course recently that had deep bunkers, but just had a chicken scratch of sand in them and rock solid underneath. Needless to say, many shots came out like bullets after the club bounces and thins the ball. (I'm an 8 handicapper by the way, so I know how to play bunker shots).

I also played a course in a two course complex in Kildare last year and the bunkers were similar. Rock hard with little sand.

Now, i'm just wondering is this the way courses set up by design or are they cutting costs by not keeping the bunkers topped up?

I know some places are aware of the condition of their bunkers and make a provision for it. I played Palmerstown house before they were bought out of receivership and they stated you could lift your ball, rake the sand and replace your ball.

Some of these bunkers are so firm, you'd be better off just squaring off the club face and trying to play a chip shot and forget about skinning the club under the ball and flopping it gently onto the green.

So is this a design feature of newer fancy courses?

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doublecross

seanl77 wrote: »

Played Nenagh and portumna in the last couple of days and the differences between the two in terms of bunkers is crazy. Portumna full of sand, perfect condition. Nenagh the exact opposite, no sand and hard as a rock. I stepped out of the bunker there after playing a shot and there was no need to rake it, no footprints or any indication that I was there. It's a pity cause the presidents prize was on over the weekend and apart from the bunkers the course was absolutely perfect

Nenagh is a fine course but its bunkers let it down a bit. Always seem to be rock hard with very little sand. Not sure is it a case of more sand or redesign the bunkers.

Montgolfier

bustercherry wrote: »

FFS it rained nearly every day from last November to then.

I haven't played a parkland course this year where the bunker sand is hard and compacted. Unfortunately we live in a sh1t climate.

Not true at all sure we had a rough winter but in general we have the best climate know the world for golf. Who wants to play in 35deg plus on burnt fairways. We have beautiful lush fairways and greens and foliage you don't appreciate how lucky you really are further more we have some of the cheapest golf on some of the best courses I the world. So cop on!!

pissedasanewt

I played St Margarets 2 years ago and ended up having to play chip type shots out of bunkers.. or as the pro's call it.. chunk and run if you catch the sand first.. actually worked out quite well. Worth practicing as long as the bunkers aren't to deep.

As for the type of sand, as much as I hate the general condition of the course, Deer Park in Howth has pretty decent sand or its more like gravel in the bunkers. The disadvantage is the ball tends to roll through it and out the other side of the bunker.

getoffthepot

Running Balance wrote: »

Likewise played on saturday and the majority of bunkers were filled with 60%.

One bunker was so full one of the lads had to drop outside for a penalty.

I dont understand why you cant rake and drop.

When you drop in a bunker the ball usually plugs which is very unfair.

bustercherry

pissedasanewt wrote: »

In the case recently it was prior to the recent rainfall, so i'm not sure when it rained before that, at least 10 days with no rain. You just want a bit of give. But when the bunkers and green speed is the main defense of the course, you'd at least want good bunkers. Although I don't mind firm fairway bunkers.

FFS it rained nearly every day from last November to then.

I haven't played a parkland course this year where the bunker sand is hard and compacted. Unfortunately we live in a sh1t climate.

Dublin Spur

this is my biggest gripe with golf courses.

This scenario happens way too often - End up in a green-side / pot bunker and have absolutely no chance to get onto the green because of the lack of loose sand.

In my view, when the depth of sand is too low to allow a splash shot to be played the bunker should be G.U.R.

The punishment should fit the crime and you should be given a fair chance (by playing the splash shot correctly) to get onto the green with your next shot.

seanl77

Played Nenagh and portumna in the last couple of days and the differences between the two in terms of bunkers is crazy. Portumna full of sand, perfect condition. Nenagh the exact opposite, no sand and hard as a rock. I stepped out of the bunker there after playing a shot and there was no need to rake it, no footprints or any indication that I was there. It's a pity cause the presidents prize was on over the weekend and apart from the bunkers the course was absolutely perfect

Ollieboy

Bunkers life span is very short (around 7 to 10 years) before they need major re-investment. Nearly all clubs in Ireland have not invested in their bunkers since 2008.

A bunker maintenance program should involve cleaning them out and blowing away the sand/mud at the bottom that stops the water clearing away. Then replacing the sand etc. They also need proper drainage at the bottom of the bunker. If you don't do regularly you will have bunkers out of play during the winter season or during heavy rain.

As someone else already mention the sand actually used is very important and it does get affect by the local conditions in the area, some sand can perform better depending on types of bunkers and locations. We are actually testing different types of sand at the moment to see which performs the best for our bunkers.

As someone else already mention the fairway bunkers should be shallow (pot bunkers style) and green-side bunkers more deeper, also bunkers shouldn't be right beside the green as you don't want sand ending up on the greens and damaging the green mowers and adding more costs. When a ball actually lands in a bunker it should fall into the target area of the bunker (which it was designed for), this is where most of the sand should be.

Due to cost restrictions very few bunkers get hand rake and they use machinery which actually shortens the life of the bunker even further.

The wet weather in Ireland in general causes major problems for most courses, so we are all in the same boat.

Also a lot of course in Ireland have to many bunkers and some bunkers are too big and could be smaller, it would make more sense to have less bunkers and more trees which would result in cheaper maintenance. Also a bunker that can't be seen when hitting a shot is a waste of time as a bunker is meant to either force a player to play a shot in a certain way or force them to change direction of the shot.

All of these problems are the result of the market demanding cheaper golf and the course can't pay for the upkeep of the bunkers but I am hoping we will see a reversal of this issue in the next few years as most clubs will start re-investing in their facilities.

Of course, everybody and every course will think differently about bunkers.

BigChap1759

I think it's mostly a cost issue but some clubs are looking at new solutions given the amount of rain we get and reduced green keeping budgets.

St Margarets have almost all bunkers filled with Breslin sand - courser grains that allow for better drainage. Takes a bit of getting used to playing proper splash bunker shots again but very welcome.

Running Balance

Likewise played on saturday and the majority of bunkers were filled with 60%.

One bunker was so full one of the lads had to drop outside for a penalty.

I dont understand why you cant rake and drop.

slave1

What overnight rain did to Mullingar Bunkers Sat night...

Montgolfier

There are problems with sand in bunkers whether too little or too much before a big competition.
The cost of sand or the loss of sand due to weather conditions can also be a factor.
So why not implement a local rule to allow the player to test the ground conditions in a bunker?

slave1

Fairway bunkers should be shallow, greenside deep.
Most importantly consistent

Boskowski

A lot of the courses don't seem to bother with the bunkers anymore. The sand isn't washed away or anything it's just compacted. Typically keeping bunkers neat and fluffy means manual labour. Nowadays they either don't seem to have the patience or the money so they just drive in there with some machine or don't bother at all.

pissedasanewt

In the case recently it was prior to the recent rainfall, so i'm not sure when it rained before that, at least 10 days with no rain. You just want a bit of give. But when the bunkers and green speed is the main defense of the course, you'd at least want good bunkers. Although I don't mind firm fairway bunkers.

Webbs

If the bunkers are pretty consistent across the course then does it matter if they are filled with white fluffy sand or more hard packed sand?
A bunker is after all a hazard, the key though I think is the consistency around a course

We dont complain if a links course has hard bare tight lies compared to a nice lush parkland fairway, we adjust how we play a particular shot, its all part of the variety of different courses.

.

Loire

I think courses with bunkers in this condition would be better off filling in half of them and allowing the rough to grow up, and maintaining the ones remaining properly. Fota has done this on their new 9 holes and it's much better IMO.

mike12

Think a lot of it is to do with the amount of rain. The bunkers are designed to drain but with the heavy rains we seem to be getting the sand is just getting washed out of the bunkers.
I see bit in our club bunkers are good 2 days later u may as well be playing off concrete.