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First time lecturing

jameskil

If this has been asked - SORRY! but ive been searching for hours, days , weeks and cannot seem to find appropriate information.

Im soon to graduate with a MSc in marketing and wanted to get into lecturing. I have 5 years real world experience in the field which includes international positions. For the purposes of this query lets just assume I would be accepted with an MSc.

But how the hell do you actually get into it?> I have no 'teaching experience' which all part-time lecturing posts seem to require. Do i just email a cover letter applying for any future parttime positions while stating I have no experience in actual lecturing? - or email colleges asking for the opportunity to gain experience i.e. do hours for free to build experience? Its quite confusing. Milky bars are on me for every appropriate response.

My head hurts.

Fin.

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TheBody

To begin, you will prob need to get a Phd to get a job in a college. There are too many people with phd's floating about for a college to employ people with a masters.

What usually happens is that in course of doing a phd, you take tutorials to get a start teaching at third level. Then if your lucky, you may get to teach a course. (All the while you are publishing papers etc)

When you graduate, you hopefully get a postdoc. Again, you will prob cover tutorials and perhaps lecture a bit while publishing.

Then when you have a good publishing record and some experience, if you are REALLY lucky, you may get a contract in a college.

What I describe above is the typical route for most however there will always be exceptions.

robp

TheBody wrote: »

To begin, you will prob need to get a Phd to get a job in a college. There are too many people with phd's floating about for a college to employ people with a masters.

What usually happens is that in course of doing a phd, you take tutorials to get a start teaching at third level. Then if your lucky, you may get to teach a course. (All the while you are publishing papers etc)

When you graduate, you hopefully get a postdoc. Again, you will prob cover tutorials and perhaps lecture a bit while publishing.

Then when you have a good publishing record and some experience, if you are REALLY lucky, you may get a contract in a college.

What I describe above is the typical route for most however there will always be exceptions.

That is certainly the case in universities. Is is still true for ITs, and as they creep towards Technical university status?

TheBody

robp wrote: »

That is certainly the case in universities. Is is still true for ITs, and as they creep towards Technical university status?

I guess like everything else, it depends on supply and demand. At the minute there are are LOADS of people with PhD's in almost every subject. Having more Phd lecturers raises the status of the institution. Therefore I suspect that a masters won't be enough.

At any rate, jobs seem to be like hens teeth out there regardless of qualifications or experience.

hairybro

In a nutshell, you simply apply for lecturer vacancies as they arise - they are open competition and are publically advertised. Some institutions use publicjobs.ie but a lot simply advertise vacancies on their own websites in my experience. I don't think that sending a standard letter on a "please let me know if any vacancies arise in the future" basis will work, frankly. Just visit the websites of the colleges you are interested in around this time of the year (July/August) to see if they are recruiting (I know that a number of the IoTs are advertising at the moment in some disciplines; look at the application forms to see what they are interested in/require from applicants).

Regarding your chances: The good news is that, provided you have a second class honours bachelors degree and 3 years relevant work experience after your bachelors (not necessarily in lecturing), you are already qualified to be a lecturer in the IoT sector. Having an MSc will improve things further. The bad news is that, as already noted on this thread, not having a PhD (and the publications that usually go with it) will seriously hamper your chances. Nothing stopping you from applying, of course, as you meet/exceed the minumum criteria, but remember that competition will be fierce. Sure, plenty of lecturers hold a masters (or less) as their highest qualification, but they were generally hired a decade or so ago when that was sufficient and typical. The world has changed since, and that boat has sailed. That is something you will have to deal with if you are set on becoming a lecturer.

Suggestions?: See if you can get a couple of part time evening hours to (1) try things out (2) get some teaching experience and (3) get your foot in the door. Try local IoTs, private colleges, etc. Competition can be high for these hours too, but not so high as for full-time day positions. They are sometimes offered on a more informal basis without being advertised if time is an issue (probably shouldn't happen, but it does e.g. a grad student is given a couple of hours to teach), so maybe approach relevant heads of department in person (knock on their door; email would be a waste of time/ignored IMO). Offering to do free hours will not work frankly (there are a bunch of issues around insurance, liability, IR, unions, employment law, data protection, QA, etc. that would prevent this IMO). If you find that you like lecturing, and want to aim for a full-time position, then you will have to address the PhD/publications deficit in due course. However, this can also be done part-time too (structured PhDs, executive DBAs, etc. are widely available) if you want/need to work at the same time. Incidentally, as you have some decent industry experience, is there anything you have done (or are doing) that you could publish e.g. as a case study in a journal? You could start building up a publications record in this way using real world experiences/data (with your organisation's support/permision, of course). That sort of thing would help your chances of getting a lecturing position. It would also be excellent prep for a PhD in the future (incidentally, you can earn a PhD by published works instead of going the thesis route; not too common, but I know a few people who did just that). Note that a PhD is no guarantee of a lecturing job in any case, and there are many PhD graduates in limbo (or pursuing post-doc after post-doc, as already noted in this thread).

Note also that lecturer pay is not the road to riches and 6 figure salaries that many assume it is; a full time position starts at around 35k nowadays, and part time positions will be paid pro rata. If you complete a PhD/DBA while working in industry over 5-6 years then you would likely have to take a big drop in income to take up a full time lecturing position. Ask yourself if you are willing to do that, or if its worth it in the long run. Not trying to put you off, but make sure you know what you are aiming for.

Anyway, enough waffle, hope this helps, and the best of luck!

Tom Dunne

hairybro wrote: »

<snip>

That has to be the most informed, detailed and articulate synopsis of the situation I have ever read on this forum.

I was going to add my tuppence, but there's not much I can add.

Sam the Sham

It was not the case that 10 years ago PhDs were not required in the universities: they were required even then for new hires.

Also, it hasn't been mentioned, but the Employment Control Framework that is in place means that very few of those retiring or leaving their positions are being replaced. This plus the backlog of un- or under-employed PhDs means that the odds of getting a lecturing job are even longer than they would be in "normal" circumstances (where they were already quite long).

robp

hairybro wrote: »

..

I 'd just like to add although some jobs are advertised on publicjobs.ie
http://www.heanet.ie/vacancies is a little better imo.

http://www.jobs.ac.uk/ is the biggest one I know as it has lots of UK and Australian jobs.

hairybro

Sam the Sham wrote: »

It was not the case that 10 years ago PhDs were not required in the universities: they were required even then for new hires.

Also, it hasn't been mentioned, but the Employment Control Framework that is in place means that very few of those retiring or leaving their positions are being replaced. This plus the backlog of un- or under-employed PhDs means that the odds of getting a lecturing job are even longer than they would be in "normal" circumstances (where they were already quite long).

Sure, but my comments related more to the IoT sector than the university sector TBH. National Certificate and Diploma courses made up a large number of IoT offerings up until the early noughties (even more so in the RTC days a few years prior to that). A masters or even a good degree (and/or professional qualification) was a typical and sufficient qualification in IoTs as a result of their focus on applied undergraduate programmes (with some disciplines such as the life sciences being an exception in my experience, where PhDs were/are commonplace). That has all changed with the increased focus on postgraduate programmes and research in the IoTs (especially the larger ones), and thus the need for PhD-qualified staff.

Incidentally, not all university lecturers hold doctorates today anyway; think circa 1/4 don't in UCD, for instance (and fewer still in UL, probably as a carry over from the NIHE days) (figures from last year IIRC). Sure, that number will be reduced over time, as new hires will be expected to have one and incumbents increasingly earn them, but that's the same story everywhere in higher education anyway.

And, yep, you are quite right that the ongoing moratorium on recruitment, increased contact hours for existing staff, IoT mergers (and subsequent programme rationalisation IMO), etc. will continue to make it increasingly difficult to find a position in any case. Still people have to retire at some point, and programmes must still be delivered, so opportunities will arise, even if few and far between.

hairybro (PhD)