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Linux-based Internet Cafe

MeatProduct

Dear All,

There is a strong possibility that I will be setting up an internet cafe. At the core of the cafe will be gaming. Counter Strike, BattleField 1942 and the like. I am very much in favour of having Linux on all the machines and using WineX for the gaming. The reason for posting here is that I would like your thoughts on the feasibility of doing this as opposed to using windows.

Are there significant cost savings? (a bit obvious but bear in mind that a license must be bought for WineX @ $99 per license + $60 per license per year for updates)

Will the public complain about not having windows in the cafe?

Will it turn people away?

Would it get support from the Linux community (if the Linux community got support from the internet cafe of course)?

These are my main concerns but there are many other smaller issues that I'll leave out for the moment.

Many thanks for any advice you can give me.

Nick

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Emboss

Are there significant cost savings? (a bit obvious but bear in mind that a license must be bought for WineX @ $99 per license + $60 per license per year for updates)

No.

Will the public complain about not having windows in the cafe?

Most likley

Will it turn people away?

Most likley

Would it get support from the Linux community (if the Linux community got support from the internet cafe of course)?

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking here

flamegrill

Dual boot

tuxy

Originally posted by flamegrill
Dual boot

i think the main reason to have linux in a cafe is to save on windows licence cost
dual boot would defeat this purpose

Cake Fiend

If gaming is to be the core of your business, I wouldn't recommend linux. Most of the popular games appear to run quite well under WineX, but I doubt all run flawlessly at full speed. Then there are other applications to consider - gamers always want to install program X or Y, be it cheating-death, all-seeing eye, config generators, etc etc.

I would personally recommend starting with windows if you can afford it. The ease of setup and consumer familiarity will be of great help when you start off - you'll have enough niggles and problems when you start off without having to worry about configuring your linux machines properly, getting app X to work, etc etc. And something need only even look different to have Joe Public in vomiting fits of panic - I dread to think how the pe0ns would react to a completely different OS. You'd probably also have to train your staff to deal with problems on a linux system, which most of them probably would not be familiar with. When everything is all running smoothly, then you could experiment with linux on customer PCs.

These are only my views (of limited experience). I'm sure someone more knowledgable on the subject will come on and counteract my points. I have toyed with the idea of setting up the machines I admin on linux, but haven't put the plan into action yet because of the above points. When I can be sure that I can fool customers into thinking they're using windows (to avoid the idiots panicking) and that there will be no problems the ordinary staff can't handle while I'm not there, that's when I'll migrate the PCs to linux.

Emboss

Originally posted by Sico
If gaming is to be the core of your business, I wouldn't recommend linux. Most of the popular games appear to run quite well under WineX, but I doubt all run flawlessly at full speed. Then there are other applications to consider - gamers always want to install program X or Y, be it cheating-death, all-seeing eye, config generators, etc etc.

I would personally recommend starting with windows if you can afford it. The ease of setup and consumer familiarity will be of great help when you start off - you'll have enough niggles and problems when you start off without having to worry about configuring your linux machines properly, getting app X to work, etc etc. And something need only even look different to have Joe Public in vomiting fits of panic - I dread to think how the pe0ns would react to a completely different OS. You'd probably also have to train your staff to deal with problems on a linux system, which most of them probably would not be familiar with. When everything is all running smoothly, then you could experiment with linux on customer PCs.

These are only my views (of limited experience). I'm sure someone more knowledgable on the subject will come on and counteract my points. I have toyed with the idea of setting up the machines I admin on linux, but haven't put the plan into action yet because of the above points. When I can be sure that I can fool customers into thinking they're using windows (to avoid the idiots panicking) and that there will be no problems the ordinary staff can't handle while I'm not there, that's when I'll migrate the PCs to linux.

http://www.xpde.com/

This might fool them.

slartibardfast

I regularly use winex on a 2.2 athlon xp with 1gb of ram with a mid spec geforce4 ti under a custom built gentoo :-), however I find the performance unacceptable for anything above Sim City 4, it requires an inordinate amount of work to configure and then goes on to crash randomly all over the place.

do check out winex cvs for a free way to evaluate it, I however will be keeping my second pc for games...

flamegrill

Originally posted by tuxx
i think the main reason to have linux in a cafe is to save on windows licence cost
dual boot would defeat this purpose

Donkeys boll0x.

He'll obviously buy machines in bulk, the licence cost is neglidgable. He can use all the open source apps for the office equivalents.

He is best to get windows on each box, especially as he wouldn't want to alienate other people who just want to use windows. Life is this way, he can't be successfull unless he has windows or at least a dual boot. And hey, who ever said the windows copies had to be legit

Get 1 2k copy, and dual boot it on each machine.

Paul

MeatProduct

Many thanks for all your comments.

I was planning on having a dual boot but leaning heavily on Linux as the main OS. After doing some research there is significant time and money lost in internet cafes due to Windows down time, mainly viruses and random reboots.

The likes of the Internet Exchange have an unfamiliar interface initially and people seem to not mind that so I would think that that would be in favour of using Linux. As posted above there are XP themes available also which might fool the average user into thinking they are using Windows.

Regarding the support issue Emboss mentioned; what I meant there is that if members of the LUG could help with setting up the Linux side of the internet cafe then in return the internet cafe could offer services to the LUG (free web hosting, half-price internet access, etc.).

The games most probably will be a real pain to get working in Linux but once they are set up that's pretty much the end of it unless patches need to be applied or new mods are introduced.

Nick

Johnny Versace

I think it's a bad idea (commercially at least.)

Most people who use internet cafes are technically retarded. They want what they're used to.

If I were you and I really wanted to offer Linux, maybe have one PC with Linux on it that some nerd can use if he wants.

zAbbo

Originally posted by Johnny Versace
maybe have one PC with Linux on it that some nerd can use if he wants.

*take your personal comments elsewhere.*

Johnny Versace

No need to get insulting. Time to grow up perhaps?

Most people do not want to use Linux. They want to use something they're used to, get the job done as quick as possible, and leave.

Most people haven't even heard of Linux.

Originally posted by bazH
You Sir are an idiot, it wont matter what OS he`s running, any pleb will be able to work a Web Browser

Ivan

I've worked in a cyber-cafe, ran one for 18 months too.

To be perfectly honest, it wont make a difference what OS your running, so long as its a GUI and has a web browswer, thats what 95% of your customers will want.

The problem will arise when something funky happens with linux and you or your staff cannot solve the problem.

So long as you and your staff are competent enough that you can help people out if/when they have a problem, I dont see why it shouldnt work.

If it were up to me, I'd either have a few machines with 2k licences and some others with linux/WineX licences and see how it goes.

There would be no saving if you spend less on WineX only to find you have no customers because of it.

MeatProduct

I think familiarity is one of the biggest issues as mentioned above. What I would hope to do is try and market it so that it looks better, feels better and promote it heavily by giving free training to those unfamiliar with the Linux interface. It's clearly an uphill battle but if Linux is to get a hold these battles must be fought.

Nick

zAbbo

Im gauging my experience from working in an Internet Cafe, where you getting yours from, running down the mans good idea saying its a bad idea "commercially at least". Justify that.

Not really wanting to drag this off topic tho, so I`ll leave it at that. Doesnt matter if a person has heard of Linux or not. My GF had no experience with linux, and now she`s well capable of using it(Firefox and Openoffice) which are the most used apps in an Internet Cafe

MeatProduct

Originally posted by Ivan
There would be no saving if you spend less on WineX only to find you have no customers because of it.

This is my main concern. What I am trying to assess elsewhere is whether gamers care what OS it is as long as the game works just as well as it works on Windows. If gamers don't care then that's a boost to the Linux case.

Nick

Johnny Versace

bazH, there is a difference between disagreeing, and just being an asshole for no reason. You are being the latter at the moment.

Why do you think practically every Internet cafe uses Windows?

- Ease of use
- Familiarity
- Good games support
- Microsoft office

You may think "just use Linux, who cares", but this guy wants to set up a business, and is it really worth the risk?

MeatProduct

Originally posted by Johnny Versace

Why do you think practically every Internet cafe uses Windows?

- Ease of use
- Familiarity
- Good games support
- Microsoft office

You may think "just use Linux, who cares", but this guy wants to set up a business, and is it really worth the risk?

I'm confident that the ease of use issue can be overcome by taking some time to set up Linux properly so that it's geared toward novices.

Familiarity is the big problem for me, a suitable theme might help that but I'm not completely confident about that.

The games support is an issue. I feel that if I can have the top 5 LAN games working then that might be sufficient. The problem will be with new game releases that will take a while until they are supported by WineX.

MS Office is contraversial. I'm not sure if the average user will notice a big difference between OpenOffice and MS Office. I'm not sure they'll care. I actually don't know in this matter.

Many thanks for the suggestions,

Nick

Johnny Versace

Nick, I wish you the best of success with whatever setup you choose. If you're worried, better to be safe than sorry IMHO.

Good luck!

flamegrill

Keep the noise down people.

Bannings will be handed out willy nilly.

The_Conductor

As long as it has a browser with an address bar, and a word processor that is fairly intuitive- that will probably satisfy 80% of internet cafe users. My own girlfriend was using Safari on Panther- Mac OS 10.2 for weeks before she even realised there was a difference (apart from the fact that there were no blue screens and memory management was better than she expected).

MeatProduct

Originally posted by Johnny Versace
Nick, I wish you the best of success with whatever setup you choose. If you're worried, better to be safe than sorry IMHO.

Good luck!

Thank you very much! It's a tough call at the moment.

Nick

Emboss

Originally posted by MeatProduct
I'm confident that the ease of use issue can be overcome by taking some time to set up Linux properly so that it's geared toward novices.

Familiarity is the big problem for me, a suitable theme might help that but I'm not completely confident about that.

The games support is an issue. I feel that if I can have the top 5 LAN games working then that might be sufficient. The problem will be with new game releases that will take a while until they are supported by WineX.

MS Office is contraversial. I'm not sure if the average user will notice a big difference between OpenOffice and MS Office. I'm not sure they'll care. I actually don't know in this matter.

Many thanks for the suggestions,

Nick

Nick,

stating the obvious here but for the average joe.

Familiarity is _not_ an issue when it comes to windows, Games are _not_ an issue browsing the web is _not_ reading mail is _not_

Although you MIGHT be able to overcome some these issues it's not what the consumer wants.

If you're looking for help from ILUG I would assume (correct me if I'm wrong) you're not very technically proficent in the linux world.

If this is the case not only do you need to be trained, your staff and in alot of cases the users will need to be giving alot more attention from your staff.

In my expirience of cafe's in dublin and around europe the staff or not very technical, they don't need to be. hence why their not on the best of wages, so if you want to hire linux techs the yearly outgoings are all ready taken a bang

Downtime was mentioned for windows machines, when something goes wrong on a linux box and you don't know what you're doing, you're not talking about 20-30 seconds for a reboot or 3 minutes to install a patch you could really end up **** creek.

I can't see why you have such a hardon for linux in this case, I'm not big fan of MS products myself but in cases like this you're really not gaining anything by using linux.

Windows has it's place and one of them is internet cafe's.

MeatProduct

Thanks for that Emboss.

I'm fairly confident regarding my Linux skills, I worked in computer repair shops for 2 years so I have a good technical background too. The reason for the support from the Linux community is because I feel it is mutually beneficial. Both want to support and promote Linux and I think that is better served through a partnetship of some sort.

By no means have I decided that I will be going for Linux for this cafe. I am strongly considering it but I am not yet completely satisified that it is feasible.

On the up side Doom 3 will be released for Linux and that game engine will be used for other games as is the norm for ID engines.

Nick

Edit: The point about the staff is a good one. That could be the point that makes Linux a no-go.

mneylon

Reading over this thread had me giggling quietly under my breath.
Why do most Net Cafes use Windows?
- Because it's the simplest option for them to setup

Do users care if the OS is linux or Windows?
-NO. All they want is to check mail and browse a few websites

If "end user" can do what they want to do "end user" will not care what the OS is.

Total cost of ownership of running a net cafe would be lower overall if run on Linux. That is business. End of story.

Personal insults and other childish behaviour, coupled with general ignorance can turn a potentially interesting thread into a mess.
*sigh*

Emboss

Not funny.

Give over.

pickarooney

So just change the icons. You only need about five - browser, (a)MSN/(g)AIM, counterstrike, burn and (open)office for most people.
I reckon you'll attract more people with slightly lower prices than you'll turn away with no windows start button (not that you can't just skin KDE up with an XP theme).
You could conceivably have just one main server and a load of dumb terminals for the non-gaming section of the café, and have actual user accounts on the server (ah, all my lovely bookmarks are saved!), sell membership to the café etc. etc. Once you know what kind of user base you're going to have you can tailor the place to suit their needs. For the casual dropin, a generic account with a row of icons pointing to hotmail, google etc. (precious seconds count when you're paying for access by the 1/4 hour). For regular customers, have a daily/weekly/monthly charge...

Emboss

echomadman

Do users care if the OS is linux or Windows?
-NO. All they want is to check mail and browse a few websites

If "end user" can do what they want to do "end user" will not care what the OS is.

pfft
"end users" are fucking idiots, using linux in a cafe would be a nightmare for the staff if you offer any services beyong email access.

echomadman

MS Office is contraversial. I'm not sure if the average user will notice a big difference between OpenOffice and MS Office. I'm not sure they'll care. I actually don't know in this matter.

They will
They do

Trust me I know

mneylon

Originally posted by echomadman
pfft
"end users" are fucking idiots,

End users are an "interesting" species