Lawning sowing - any advice

pdunno · 23-06-2005 9:30am #1

Ok, new house, patio laid now I need to get the lawn going. Back garden is at the moment rock hard soil, I've already killed the weeds. What's the best, most efficient way of getting it rerady for a lawn? Soil is very bad, full of rubble and stones. Should I just plow in with a rotivator or simple turn it with a pitch fork , rake and add seed/fertiliser. Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

Lex Luthor · 23-06-2005 10:14am

pdunno wrote:

Should I just plow in with a rotivator or simple turn it with a pitch fork , rake and add seed/fertiliser. Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

If you want to add in a few bags of top soil when turning it'll do no harm
After that, rake & level and add seed evenly.
Leave the fertiliser till the lawn is established.

MR DAZ · 23-06-2005 10:24am

Yeah I'd aggree with lex ... but if its rock solid you'll have your work cut out for yourself just turning it.

I did my own lawn about a month ago...I hired out a rotivator, it really is the job as it made things alot easier for raking afterwards.

Dazza

GreeBo · 23-06-2005 10:31am

Lex Luthor wrote:

If you want to add in a few bags of top soil when turning it'll do no harm

Id mix the topsoil with sharp sand and some sort of organic matter (compost or peat)
You want about a 2-3-4 mix, soil-sand-compost
topsoil on its own doesnt hold water very well and it well end up very dry and hard in a few weeks, compost & sand will help to break up the sticky soil and get your ground more loam-like.
enjoy, Im doing the same myself.
Get good seed, its so important, I made the mistake of buying a "B&Q bumper bag 'o seed" last week. Id say about 20% of the seeds germinated...
were taking big time Patches O'Houlihan here

Stoner · 23-06-2005 6:50pm

If its full of stones etc you may have to sieve the ground a bit , did this a couple of times, once you have broken the ground up, you may have to dig it with the fork first then run over it with a rotivator as rotivators are not great with the initial really hard ground, get it as fine/broken up as possible. You can get some wire mesh with big enough grating in it, then you shovel the soil onto the grid, the stones etc will not pass through, then you can dump them or keep em for dry fill for your potting needs. Its hard work but its one way to do it, you'll be picking stones off your lawn for ages if its as bad as you say it is, the stones will keep getting pushed to the surface and shot around the place by the mower etc.

GreeBo · 24-06-2005 10:29am

Even if you arent going to sieve it, rake the stones out, leave for a couple of days and repeat
stones are bastards for coming to the surface at night and picking them up is a pain in the títs.

Stoner · 24-06-2005 12:46pm

Hey Greebo, Watch who your calling a Bastard!!!!!

delly · 26-06-2005 12:48pm

I'm currently working on the garden putting in some drainage, but will be re-sowing afterwards. I got a couple of boxs of the B&Q family lawnseed with ryegrass. Is this the same stuff that you got GreeBo, or was it a big generic bag?

Also if this stuff is a load of pants, can anybody recommend a good brand of lawnseed.

When i'm all done with the drainage i'm planning to make a post on how i did it with some pics. Thats hoping that it actually works.

joseph brand · 27-06-2005 1:23am

I was told that there are different types of lawnseed, one that grows very slowly, less time out with mower.

Don't know what it's called though.

pdunno · 27-06-2005 8:57am

ok here's what I've done so far.

broke up hard ground with a pick and shovel and turned the sods slightly. then I covered the ground with a layer of fertiliser (old manure/compost which I gathered from a friend whose got horses). About 15 wheelbarrows of this stuff. Then I used a rotviator to mix it all up and loosen the ground more. Now all is left is to roll and sow grass. Nearly there!! Any recommendations for the grass seed? Or does it really matter what you get?

GreeBo · 27-06-2005 9:41am

The stuff I got that seems to be patchy was a big, red 5KG or so bag of B&Q grass seed "With ryegrass"
I found the boxes (30sqm) of Family Lawn were good, the fast acting one came up within 10 days.
But you really, REALLY need to keep the seeds wet in the begining. Just keep the top inch of soil most.
Once you start to see grass growing you will wan to water less often but deeper.
You want to give about an inch or water so that the soil is moist for about 6-8 inches down.
This helps promote the roots to go deep and be long lasting and drought resistant rather than shallow and dead when you get back from Spain after 2 weeks!
Dont forget to use ribbon to scare the birds, or some netting if you have it.

pdunno · 28-06-2005 4:52pm

all raked, sowed and rolled!! and then rain, just after it's been finished so hopefullly it'll grow well over the next few weeks, thanks for all advice!!!

GreeBo · 28-06-2005 4:57pm

pdunno wrote:

all raked, sowed and rolled!! and then rain, just after it's been finished so hopefullly it'll grow well over the next few weeks, thanks for all advice!!!

take pics if you can, even if you cant get them on here they will be useful for you to look back on, you wont notice the change as you are looking at it everyday and its a pity to miss out on the transformation.

pdunno · 14-07-2005 10:00am

Welll it's a little of 3 weeks since the lawn was sowed but it's turned out very patchy. I'd say only about 50% of the seeds germinated and the lawn doesn't look to good at the moment. What's the next step? Water, sow more seed and fertilise?.

GreeBo · 15-07-2005 1:53pm

pdunno wrote:

Welll it's a little of 3 weeks since the lawn was sowed but it's turned out very patchy. I'd say only about 50% of the seeds germinated and the lawn doesn't look to good at the moment. What's the next step? Water, sow more seed and fertilise?.

Hmm sounds like they dried out on ya, you literally need to water them everynight until they start to appear above the ground...
rake over the patchy area until the soil is loose to a depth of about 1-2 inches
then reseed and rake in to get good see/soil contact
then water, water, water.

<edit>
you probably dont need any more fertiliser, if you are seeding into new topsoil/compost/peat that will be fine for the seeds to germinate in, infact the will germinate in just water.
If you fertilise again you will either burn the grass or will be cutting it every 2 days.

Mr Magnolia · 07-07-2006 7:11am

I'm doing work in the back-garden at the mo.

I've some top soil left over from a flower bed and would like to level the back lawn (it's not massive - 3bed semi) Can i spread 8-10 inches of top soil over the grass that's already there, then re-seed or do I really need to dig up the sod?? Also, is now a good time of year to sew grass?

I've put up a fence and done a decking, I'll stick up a couple of photos when I'm finished.

Thanks all!

aka_Ciaran · 07-07-2006 8:32am

I'm in the same boat so I'd be interested in an answer to this aswell...save me startin a new thread!

GreeBo · 07-07-2006 9:56am

will you really need 8-10 inches to level it out?!
If you only have a couple of inches the grass will grow through and you can seed at the same time for better coverage.
8-10 will kill the grass underneath so you dont need to dig it up.
If you dig down 10 inches right now you wont find any grass roots, more likely crappy clay and stones/builders rubble.

Sleipnir · 07-07-2006 10:15am

I've grown into a bit of a lawn freak over the past year and am a bit obsessed with it now. Just ask the missus. At the moment I'm cutting quite high twice a week (lawn is less that 1 year old), feeding about every 6 weeks, using lawn sand to keep the moss at bay and will be 'dressing' the lawn in september.

Really, this is just the WRONG time to be sowing a lawn and I'm not surprised it's turned out patchy. Best time is either September or the spring. The good thing about autumn sowing is that the lawn is walked on less and the ground is usually moist. Sowing in the spring means that you have to water the lawn thoroughly all summer long. Sowing in the hot weather of june and July will result in the seed getting scorched, especially if you water on a hot day.

Often the stuff the builders leave is a mix of subsoil and topsoil (this may also be the reason it's patchy) so they best thing to do it remove it and replace with a good quality topsoil although that's a lot of work!

The sod does need to be broken up; placing a layer above will only mean that it will compact quickly and eventually end up just like the stuff you were trying to hide. Use a rotovator for this (personally I like the fast and light ones instead of the slow and heavy ones you usually get) then remove old sod with root etc. After that, remove the stones and then level.

Levelling can be tricky but one handy way is to get a ladder and tie a rope to it so you can drag it over seed bed. You have to go over it again and again. The neighbours will think you've lost it but that's neither here nor there.

Mr Magnolia · 07-07-2006 10:32am

Sleipnir wrote:

The sod does need to be broken up; placing a layer above will only mean that it will compact quickly and eventually end up just like the stuff you were trying to hide.

I'm not trying to hide the grass that's there, I just want to level it a bit, a few inches here or there. Should I rotavate or not? what do ye think?

Thanks again

Sleipnir · 07-07-2006 11:29am

If you want to get rid of a bump here and there you cut the sod with a spade making a capital "I" down to about 3-4 inches. and then you can peel back the sod, remove the soil which is causing the bump and replace the turves above. then fill the gaps with sieved soil and then water the area.
To fill in a hollow, you use lawn dressing.

If it's humps, bumps, hollows and holes all over the place, then you really should dig it. But if you absolutely don't want to do this then you should use lawn dressing all over the lawn in September and gradually build the hollows up. You'll probably need to re-seed if the hollow is deep.
The problem here is that you can only do so much per season as otherwise you'll smother the grass. (Lawn dressing a particular mix of loam sand and soil by the way)

Mr Magnolia · 07-07-2006 12:38pm

Cheers folks.

Sonnenblumen · 07-07-2006 10:30pm

This is a labour intensive business involving plenty of graft and grit. It is quite commen for lawns in most new houses to have as little as 2-3 inches (75mm) topsoil on what is generally very compacted mixture of subsoil/rubble which is virtually useless as a base for new lawns.

*Spray (Roundup best) existing lawn and leave for 7-10 days to kill all growth in new lawn area.
* Hire Rotovator (5 HP should suit most, probably costs € 80/day which will cope with average area 3/4 Bed House) . For larger areas and very bad ground 13 HP Rotvators are available and of course you move on up top Mini Diggers etc.
* Ground should be cleared and well rotovated, all stones/rubble removed, rake and level.
*Prepare new base by adding a mixture of topsoil and lawnsand (available from Landscape Depot) which can be rolled flat.
* Sprinkle fertiliser and rake finely working fertiliser into topsoil/lawnsand base.
* Sow seed or what is increasingly popular roll out lawn turf ensuring that the rolls are laid parallel, joints are staggered but well butted, and gently tapped flat in final position. If using seed (Grade 3 is good mix for rear lawns, for more ornamental and finer looking grass, go for Grade 1 or 2). Note Grade 1 or 2 completely unsuitable for children/sport/play areas etc.
If using rollturf, run roller over at end to ensure good even flat surface.

After sowing cover seed lightly with compost (avoid using peat) and water well using a gentle spray. Seeded/Rolled Turf areas should be kept moist which in warm spells means water daily.

Seeded lawns should be ready for first cut after 4-6 weeks. New lawns should only be trimmed very lightly (set blade at highest point) for first 3 cuts and thereafter reduce gradually to mid point. Avoid low cutting/using any weedkiller on new lawns during first year. Apply Autumn feed later.

Roll Turf is available form c € 3.00/sq m. Looks better and is ready for reasonable traffic after 2 weeks but looks finished from Day 1.

A good lawn takes some effort to achieve, the secret is to prepare ground well, therafter regular watering and feeding will result in a lush healthy vivid green lawn.

Drag00n79 · 08-07-2006 3:50pm

Sleipnir wrote:

Levelling can be tricky but one handy way is to get a ladder and tie a rope to it so you can drag it over seed bed. You have to go over it again and again. The neighbours will think you've lost it but that's neither here nor there.

Good tip! Thanks

tinofapples · 16-07-2009 1:54pm

take pics if you can, even if you cant get them on here they will be useful for you to look back on, you wont notice the change as you are looking at it everyday and its a pity to miss out on the transformation.

Agreed, will give the rest of us a comparison to make with our own "projects"

faroutthere · 21-03-2010 12:29pm

Ive a .8 of an acre project which Im getting great tips on here but now looking forward to doing!:(

sheehk · 25-03-2010 4:27pm

Hi there,

I have a new lawn that was sown last July / August. Due to the terrible Summer we had the growth was very slow. Since then the frost & snow has not helped things. Only now is it starting to regain its green colour although the grass is still very short & bare in spots.

Should I throw on some more seed or sprinkle with lawn feed ?

Any advice appreciated

doubtfir3 · 25-03-2010 5:11pm

I would also be interested in this.

I moved into a house last August with recently seeded grass and fed it and reseeded in September which seemed to help it along quite a bit.

Of course the winter and teh fact that I have two dogs hasn't helped .. not to mention the fact that there's only a tiny bit of top soil on and its all compacted.

I've used a fork in the worst places to get rid of the puddles but am hoping that a good feed will help it along this spring and that I'll be able to use it this summer.

Any tips are gratefully appreciated. I really, really don't want to have to rotavate it as its so compacted and there's so little top soil so i think the only thing for it is going to be adding a few tonnes of topsoil to the whole garden.

there's my next few weekends gone!

GubMan · 07-05-2010 3:37pm

all good information on here. I have one question. I've burnt off my weeds, have let them burn down to roots and have rotivated. As the area was let grow weeds from Oct '08 til this March, I've a lot of burnt grass roots that I will never get rid of. I do need to roll the area now though as there are some uneven sections. Q. Can I roll, then seed? I'm prepared to have a lawn that'll take until '11 to sort itself out and I'm not looking for a perfect one either. Comments? Thanks