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Liverpool -v- Everton next season's CL places

  • 04-05-2005 03:39PM
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭


    Alright...here's the question.

    A - In the event of Liverpool winning the CL, and finishing outside the top four in the PL, should they be entitled to entry in next seasons competition?

    Vote Yes

    B - Should Everton retain 4th place, they should therefore assume entry into next seasons CL based on domestic league positions.

    Vote No

    Should Liverpool be granted automatic entry into next seasons CL if they win it? 30 votes

    Yes - Everton banished to the UEFA Cup
    0% 0 votes
    No - CL entry is based on domestic placing alone
    100% 30 votes


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Keano_sli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 242 ✭✭Keano_sli


    Wow 100% of people agree with me, Oh wait no I am just the only one who has voted yet!! :D


  • #3
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,549 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Keano_sli wrote:
    Wow 100% of people agree with me, Oh wait no I am just the only one who has voted yet!! :D

    sorry not anymore. to be honest i said liverpool but dont agree with the actual option i voted for (everton being relegated to uefa cup). both should get in, everton as domestic qualifier, liverpool as champions irrelevent of country they're representing. should just be a mechanism for an extra team.
    sigh, stupid uefa making it so very needlessly complicated, why didn't they get it sorted after the real incident in 2000?

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  • #4
    mr_angry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭mr_angry


    This poll is desperately missing an "Atari Jaguar" option.

    Perhaps you missed last week's poll on the exact same subject. I suggest using the "search" feature sometime.


  • #5
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    mr_angry wrote:
    Perhaps you missed last week's poll on the exact same subject. I suggest using the "search" feature sometime.


    Is is this poll.?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=245697


  • #6
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,549 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    to be honest there have been loads of threads on this general topic, this being another poll on it
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=250791

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  • #7
    Third_Echelon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,867 ✭✭✭Third_Echelon


    mr_angry wrote:
    This poll is desperately missing an "Atari Jaguar" option.

    Perhaps you missed last week's poll on the exact same subject. I suggest using the "search" feature sometime.

    That poll was slightly different...

    The question was which was better? Win CL or Fin 4th.


  • #8
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I'm not voting because I don't want Everton banished if they got fourth but it is only natural for Liverpool to defend their trophy if they win it.


  • #9
    Serbian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭Serbian


    Personally I think that the cup champions should be there to defend it. However, I think that it would be unfair on Everton if they were to finish 4th, that they would have to put up with UEFA cup football next season.

    If you had asked anyone on day one of the season: If Everton finish 4th, will they be playing in the Champions League next season and the answer would have been a unanimous yes.

    Maybe it was the short-sightedness of the English FA, or maybe people just assumed that if you were good enough to win the Champions League, you would be good enough to finish in the top 4 in the league, but without a precedent of a team finishing outside the top 4 but still qualifying for the Champions League, there is no chance for Liverpool going back in next season should they defeat PSV / Milan in the final.

    The unfortunate part of this for Liverpool, and for any other team who may find themselves in a similar situation, this season will set the precedent, so it's unlikely to change.


  • #10
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,379 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Honestly, I think that IF (and that's a huge IF) Liverpool win there should (and possibly will) be an exception made and both Liverpool and Everton will enter next season's competition. Johansson has already hinted at this and honestly, I can't see how you can have a Champions League, without The Champions.


  • #11
    fade2black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,936 ✭✭✭fade2black


    I think it's madness that a team that finishes fourth in their domestic league should be allowed anywhere near a champions league competition to be honest. If Liverpool win the Champions league then without a doubt they should be there the next season to defend it.


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  • #12
    mayordenis
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 9,745 Mod ✭✭✭✭mayordenis


    well in fairness if liverpool win then they are champion if everton come 4th are they champions of anything?


  • #13
    Memnoch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    I still think we should wait on this debate until AFTER liverpool win the league, then there will be pleanty of time to debate the issue :)


  • #14
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    I'll say it again - Everton and Liverpool should have a two legged play off tie before the 3rd qualification round is drawn. The winner goes in, the looser enters UEFA Draw.

    Mike.


  • #15
    Third_Echelon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,867 ✭✭✭Third_Echelon


    mike65 wrote:
    I'll say it again - Everton and Liverpool should have a two legged play off tie before the 3rd qualification round is drawn. The winner goes in, the looser enters UEFA Draw.

    Mike.

    According to the FA guidelines as I pointed out in this post ->
    Linky in this thread -> Linky, if the CL winners are even considered for entry, they get an automatic qualification spot.

    This would mean that the 2nd place team (Arsenal) in the league would lose their direct entry spot and would have to enter a qualifying round along with the 3rd place team (Man Utd) with the 4th place team (Everton) going into the UEFA cup.

    Scenario:
    So should there be a playoff between 3rd (Man Utd) and 4th (Everton) for the last qualifying spot with the loser going into the UEFA cup?

    Because this is basically what is being asked of Everton fans. What would man utd fans think of this.

    Now that would be an interesting poll????

    I don't think Man Utd would allow that to happen. Do you?


  • #16
    uberwolf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,581 ✭✭✭uberwolf


    IMO - Everton should have entry. And UEFA should offer Liverpool the spot - their absence devalues the contest should they win it.

    And teh rules should be clarified. They obviously thought of the situation in the past, why they hadn't prescribed for it escapes me.


  • #17
    Drag00n79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Drag00n79


    I agree with Überwolf. The winners of the Champions League should gain entry the following season and that country should then have an extra place in the Champions League that season. I think Everton deserve to qualify if they finish 4th.


  • #18
    Lex Luthor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭Lex Luthor


    fade2black wrote:
    I think it's madness that a team that finishes fourth in their domestic league should be allowed anywhere near a champions league competition to be honest. If Liverpool win the Champions league then without a doubt they should be there the next season to defend it.
    I have to agree here.....I think that anything outside the top 2 should be playing UEFA cup, but the money men don't see it that way.
    Nevertheless, in any cup competition, the winner should always be invited back to defend the trophy..
    But if the 4th place team is entitled to a CL play-off place, then they should get that too.
    UEFA should make provisions for this even though it won't happen that often.


  • #19
    p.pete
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭p.pete


    Well apparently UEFA don't think that Liverpools absence would devalue the competition, which is a might unfortunate as a Liverpool fan. I think it's fair enough that the Uefa coefficients give 4, 3 or however many places to each country but the place going to the competition winner should be independant of this.

    At the moment however, UEFA aren't offering a direct place to the winners - similar to the World Cup so it seems to be their current fashion on how to run things but I don't agree on it as being a good idea.


  • #20
    Serbian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭Serbian


    p.pete wrote:
    The place going to the competition winner should be independant of this.

    As far as I know, the winner of the Champions League has never failed to qualify in following season before. This means that it has never been a requirement to hold a specific place for the champion. If they were to decide that the champion must re-enter the competition the following season, that would mean if a situation arose (like is possible with Liverpool) where the champion does not qualify, they would need to take a place from somewhere to award it to the defending champion. Do you think any other country in Europe would be happy to surrender their Champions League place to accommodate the champions?


  • #21
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,379 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Serbian wrote:
    As far as I know, the winner of the Champions League has never failed to qualify in following season before. This means that it has never been a requirement to hold a specific place for the champion. If they were to decide that the champion must re-enter the competition the following season, that would mean if a situation arose (like is possible with Liverpool) where the champion does not qualify, they would need to take a place from somewhere to award it to the defending champion. Do you think any other country in Europe would be happy to surrender their Champions League place to accommodate the champions?

    Yes, Spain. In 2000 Real Madrid won the Champions League but finished in fifth place with Real Zaragoza in fourth. The decision was taken to send Real Zaragoza into the UEFA Cup and Madrid took their place in the Champions League. So, as you can see, there's a precedent.


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  • #22
    Serbian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭Serbian


    super_furry wrote:
    Yes, Spain. In 2000 Real Madrid won the Champions League but finished in fifth place with Real Zaragoza in fourth. The decision was taken to send Real Zaragoza into the UEFA Cup and Madrid took their place in the Champions League. So, as you can see, there's a precedent.

    That decision was taken by the Spanish FA not by UEFA. There's no precedent in England.


  • #23
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


  • #24
    case n basket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 403 ✭✭case n basket


    Ideally both, but I'm leaning towards Liverpool if forced to choose. I don't think 4th place finishers should get entrance to the CL in the first place.


  • #25
    TheMonster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭TheMonster


    Looks like the FA will see sense

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/4515401.stm
    The Football Association is set to decide on Thursday who will take the final Champions League spot for next season if Liverpool win the tournament.
    If the Reds beat AC Milan in the final and finish behind Everton in the league the FA would have the final decision.

    Uefa has said it would not allow five English clubs to take part but will look into changing the rule in future.

    Everton are currently lying in fourth place in the Premiership, three points ahead of Liverpol in the table.

    The FA's professional game board is meeting at Soho Square to finalise their position if Liverpool are crowned European champions.

    Uefa has stated it would not allow Rafael Benitez's team to automatically enter next season's Champions League as holders.

    "You cannot change the rule at this late stage of the season," insisted Uefa spokesman William Gaillard.

    "For future seasons, say from 2006-2007, the executive committee may look to change the rule. But for next season the rule stays at it is.

    "The English Premiership has four places and it would be unfair to tell another national association that they have lost one of theirs."


  • #26
    Washout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Washout


    abd hopefully the sense is the place going the fourth place


  • #27
    PHB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    The fact that Liverpool have come 4th and are now in the final should show people why you should allow all these non champion teams into compo.
    Its not about last years champions of europe, its about next years. The best way to ensure that the best teams in europe of this year are in the compo is to give 4 places to italy spain and england


  • #28
    20 Times 20 Times
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,227 ✭✭✭20 Times 20 Times


    In fairness i think milan wil beat liverpool so really it aint going to come to that , but in the event that is does then everton came 4th liverpool uefa cup please

    my 2 cent


  • #29
    uberwolf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,581 ✭✭✭uberwolf


    Would LFC walk teh UEFA cup next season?


  • #30
    WhiteWashMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    fade2black wrote:
    I think it's madness that a team that finishes fourth in their domestic league should be allowed anywhere near a champions league competition to be honest. If Liverpool win the Champions league then without a doubt they should be there the next season to defend it.

    what place did liverpool come to get into the champions league out of interest?


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  • #31
    20 Times 20 Times
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,227 ✭✭✭20 Times 20 Times


    without stevie gearad ?


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