house mate leaving

tom1ie · 03-04-2020 1:11pm #1

hi all,
I'm asking this question on behalf of my sister.
so her housemate has decided she is staying put in her mothers house and she is giving her one months notice, as per the contract.
The housemate is saying she is putting her room up on facebook to allow people entry to the house to have a look around to see if they are interested.
My sister is obviously quite angry at this as the place is supposed to be on lockdown so how can you allow people into the house to go sniffing around the kitchen, toilet etc.
what do you think is the appropriate response here?

Mango Joe · 03-04-2020 1:14pm

Jesus.

No.

Tell your poor sister to warn off this Moron with threats of contacting the Landlord or Gardai or whoever else....

This idiot is clearly unhinged.

fishy_fishy · 03-04-2020 1:15pm

I'm curious as to what you want to do?

Are you happy to foot her share for a couple of months? If so, say no to viewings.

Otherwise you'll have to find a new housemate. Try source gloves and masks for anyone viewing and yourself, and maybe ask them to let you know if they want doors/presses opened and you will do so

LawBoy2018 · 03-04-2020 1:16pm

tom1ie wrote: »

hi all,
I'm asking this question on behalf of my sister.
so her housemate has decided she is staying put in her mothers house and she is giving her one months notice, as per the contract.
The housemate is saying she is putting her room up on facebook to allow people entry to the house to have a look around to see if they are interested.
My sister is obviously quite angry at this as the place is supposed to be on lockdown so how can you allow people into the house to go sniffing around the kitchen, toilet etc.
what do you think is the appropriate response here?

Tell her that this type of behaviour contravenes Government regulations and that it will not be tolerated. Most other people in this type of situation are doing 'video viewings' whereby they video call the prospective tenant, giving them a tour of the house. It would be reasonable, however, for the tenant who's most likely to take the room, to be able to view the house in person imo. Hope this helped.

Mango Joe · 03-04-2020 3:17pm

fishy_fishy wrote: »

I'm curious as to what you want to do?

Are you happy to foot her share for a couple of months? If so, say no to viewings.

Otherwise you'll have to find a new housemate. Try source gloves and masks for anyone viewing and yourself, and maybe ask them to let you know if they want doors/presses opened and you will do so

Please do not take this ridiculous, short-sighted, irresponsible advice OP.

ijohhj · 03-04-2020 3:19pm

fishy_fishy wrote: »

Try source gloves and masks

Anyone want to tell him or should I?

Tell the roomie to get lost until this is over op. It's her choice to leave, knowing the situation, so she should keep paying rent.

Caranica · 03-04-2020 3:24pm

tom1ie wrote: »

hi all,
I'm asking this question on behalf of my sister.
so her housemate has decided she is staying put in her mothers house and she is giving her one months notice, as per the contract.
The housemate is saying she is putting her room up on facebook to allow people entry to the house to have a look around to see if they are interested.
My sister is obviously quite angry at this as the place is supposed to be on lockdown so how can you allow people into the house to go sniffing around the kitchen, toilet etc.
what do you think is the appropriate response here?

If the housemate is still there she can't go to her mother's and vice versa. She can't show the room to anyone as she's legally required to stay put. People coming to view the room would also be breaking the law as it's not an essential activity

Stark · 03-04-2020 3:25pm

This situation depends whether the housemate is a licensee (ie: your sister holds the lease and sublets a room to the housemate) or co-signatory on the lease.

If she's co-signatory on the lease, then she has obligations to continue paying the rent until the lease is finished.

If she's a licensee, then she has no obligations (just as she would have to rights if the sister wanted to kick her out) and is free to leave whenever she wants and it's the sister's responsibility to find another person to sublet to.

ijohhj · 03-04-2020 3:27pm

Stark wrote: »

(just as she would have to rights if the sister wanted to kick her out)

I very much doubt you can just boot anyone you want for any reason in this country.

Stark · 03-04-2020 3:28pm

Licensees (as opposed to tenants) have no rights.

https://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/registration-docs/licensees.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Licensees are not bound by the tenancy obligations that apply to tenants and equally do not
have the rights that apply to tenants. Therefore although the tenant may take in a licensee to
contribute towards the rent, the tenant remains liable to the landlord for the full rent amount and
if the licensee does not meet their payment obligations it is the tenant’s problem and not the
landlord’s, as the tenant’s obligation to pay the agreed rent to the landlord remains. Tenants
are responsible for all of the acts and omissions of their licensees. Therefore, if an act of a
licensee breaches an obligation applying to the tenancy, whether under law or under a written
tenancy agreement, the tenant will be in breach of the obligation thus potentially entitling the
landlord to terminate the agreement and the tenancy in accordance with the relevant legislative
provisions. Examples of breaches would include; a licensee engaging in anti-social behaviour;
a licensee redecorating without the landlord’s written consent – these are prohibited by law; a
licensee hanging out washing on an apartment balcony or leaving an exterior door unlocked –
these may be in contravention of the tenant’s letting agreement or management company rules.
A tenant taking in a licensee will therefore clearly need to establish all the obligations that the
tenant will require to apply to the licensee.

ijohhj · 03-04-2020 3:32pm

"Licensees in private rented accommodation are not tenants as there has been no tenancy
entered into by them with the landlord."

This means people with no contract surely.

Stark · 03-04-2020 3:34pm

I'm not sure the circumstances of this particular case, that's why I qualified my reply depending on whether the housemate was on the lease or was subletting. In some cases, a person subletting might draw up a contract but that contract would be worth very little legally speaking.

ijohhj · 03-04-2020 3:38pm

Stark wrote: »

In some cases, a person subletting might draw up a contract but that contract would be worth very little legally speaking.

I don't think that's the case tbh. Could be wrong. But I've seen many Threshold staff take one look at notices handed to them by people in trouble and immediately telling that the notice to leave is illegal and not to comply. Right around was everyone was getting turfed so the places could be turned into AirBnBs. Definitely not full lease holders either.

Stark · 03-04-2020 3:42pm

Who was handing out the notice, the landlord or the lease holder? If it's the landlord turfing the person out in order to sell the place then of course the usual rights/obligations would apply as they'd also be kicking out the head tenant in order to gain vacant possession.

If you are renting a room to someone within your house, whether you are the homeowner or the head tenant, you have the right to kick them out on the basis that you simply do not wish to live with them.

ijohhj · 03-04-2020 3:51pm

Stark wrote: »

Who was handing out the notice, the landlord or the lease holder? If it's the landlord turfing the person out in order to sell the place then of course the usual rights/obligations would apply as they'd also be kicking out the head tenant in order to gain vacant possession.

If you are renting a room to someone within your house, whether you are the homeowner or the head tenant, you have the right to kick them out on the basis that you simply do not wish to live with them.

That's a owner occupied situation, op's isn't by the sounds of things? Calls her 'house mate' not 'tenant'.

Stark · 03-04-2020 3:57pm

I'm not sure the circumstances of this particular case, that's why I qualified my reply depending on whether the housemate was on the lease or was subletting.

Head tenant and owner occupier are the same situation when it comes to taking in a lodger.

ijohhj · 03-04-2020 3:59pm

Stark wrote: »

that's why I qualified

You do this more than our football team I feel.

You can't just boot someone living in your non-owner occupied place, especially if they have a contract, which they absolutely should and most do. So far as I know from being around Threshold folk anyway.

tom1ie · 03-04-2020 6:34pm

Caranica wrote: »

If the housemate is still there she can't go to her mother's and vice versa. She can't show the room to anyone as she's legally required to stay put. People coming to view the room would also be breaking the law as it's not an essential activity

No she went to her mams when the 2km thing came in.

tom1ie · 03-04-2020 6:36pm

Stark wrote: »

This situation depends whether the housemate is a licensee (ie: your sister holds the lease and sublets a room to the housemate) or co-signatory on the lease.

If she's co-signatory on the lease, then she has obligations to continue paying the rent until the lease is finished.

If she's a licensee, then she has no obligations (just as she would have to rights if the sister wanted to kick her out) and is free to leave whenever she wants and it's the sister's responsibility to find another person to sublet to.

Her name is on the lease as is my sisters. However she is entitled to give 1 months notice as she is doing.

Stark · 03-04-2020 7:09pm

Fair enough, it's a bit ****ty to renege on rent obligations then in that case.

tom1ie · 03-04-2020 7:34pm

Stark wrote: »

Fair enough, it's a bit ****ty to renege on rent obligations then in that case.

****ty indeed but where does that leave my sister?
She can’t cover hers and the other half of the rent.
She can’t let people in to look at the place under current circumstances.
If she contacts the LL I presume he’ll say the house mate has fulfilled her obligations by giving a months notice, I need to get my full rent somehow, which tbf he’s entitled to do.
I just think the housemate has done something pretty scumbaggy tbh.

the_syco · 03-04-2020 10:45pm

tom1ie wrote: »

The housemate is saying she is putting her room up on facebook to allow people entry to the house to have a look around to see if they are interested.

The housemate can show the people the room if they want, but your sister doesn't have to let anyone into the house if the housemate isn't there.

Your sister can put up an ad on Facebook, and do video viewings of the house.

Stark · 03-04-2020 10:48pm

Or move out herself. Pain in the hole but it's what she signed up to agreeing to a contract with 1 month's notice.

Caranica · 03-04-2020 10:52pm

the_syco wrote: »

The housemate can show the people the room if they want, but your sister doesn't have to let anyone into the house if the housemate isn't there.

Your sister can put up an ad on Facebook, and do video viewings of the house.

The housemate can't show people the room. They can't visit a home they don't reside in until current restrictions are lifted.

the_syco · 03-04-2020 11:14pm

Caranica wrote: »

The housemate can't show people the room. They can't visit a home they don't reside in until current restrictions are lifted.

Can you post up a link to this info, so that the OP's sister can send said link to the soon-to-be ex-housemate?

OP; if your sister doesn't pay the full rent, they may be evicted when the situation finishes. But until then, your sister can't be evicted.

tom1ie · 03-04-2020 11:21pm

Stark wrote: »

Or move out herself. Pain in the hole but it's what she signed up to agreeing to a contract with 1 month's notice.

Why would my sister move out because her housemate is doing something that is going against the spirit of a pandemic lockdown?

tom1ie · 03-04-2020 11:24pm

Stark wrote: »

Who was handing out the notice, the landlord or the lease holder? If it's the landlord turfing the person out in order to sell the place then of course the usual rights/obligations would apply as they'd also be kicking out the head tenant in order to gain vacant possession.

If you are renting a room to someone within your house, whether you are the homeowner or the head tenant, you have the right to kick them out on the basis that you simply do not wish to live with them.

What? No!
I said my sister is in a house share.
She is a tenant.
Other housemate is giving 1 months notice.
Other tenant wants to allow entry into house share to prospective tenants during pandemic lockdown contrary to governmental instructions.

tom1ie · 03-04-2020 11:26pm

the_syco wrote: »

The housemate can show the people the room if they want, but your sister doesn't have to let anyone into the house if the housemate isn't there.

Your sister can put up an ad on Facebook, and do video viewings of the house.

So being realistic the only way my sister gets out of this is if she decides to find a suitable house share via video link or something.

Padre_Pio · 03-04-2020 11:28pm

Call the landlord and tell them about the situation. They may let you off the roommates share of the rent.

Caranica · 03-04-2020 11:36pm

the_syco wrote: »

Can you post up a link to this info, so that the OP's sister can send said link to the soon-to-be ex-housemate?

OP; if your sister doesn't pay the full rent, they may be evicted when the situation finishes. But until then, your sister can't be evicted.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/cf9b0d-new-public-health-measures-effective-now-to-prevent-further-spread-o/

tom1ie · 03-04-2020 11:42pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Call the landlord and tell them about the situation. They may let you off the roommates share of the rent.

I highly doubt this will happen. But yeah she will ring him.

Ciaranis · 03-04-2020 11:49pm

ijohhj wrote:

Tell the roomie to get lost until this is over op. It's her choice to leave, knowing the situation, so she should keep paying rent.

Why? She's giving a month's notice as per the agreement. Is there anything legally compelling her to do more?

Ciaranis · 03-04-2020 11:54pm

Caranica wrote:

If the housemate is still there she can't go to her mother's and vice versa. She can't show the room to anyone as she's legally required to stay put. People coming to view the room would also be breaking the law as it's not an essential activity

This is government advice. GardaÃ as of this moment have no extra powers and can only guide and advise. Read the news more closely. Harris and Dept of Justice have not yet signed off

Ciaranis · 03-04-2020 11:57pm

Stark wrote:

If you are renting a room to someone within your house, whether you are the homeowner or the head tenant, you have the right to kick them out on the basis that you simply do not wish to live with them.

The head tenant! I'd love to read this law!

tom1ie · 04-04-2020 12:02am

Ciaranis wrote: »

This is government advice. Gardaí as of this moment have no extra powers and can only guide and advise. Read the news more closely. Harris and Dept of Justice have not yet signed off

ah listen, don't be a bollox, keep it civil with no attitude! so many threads with bitchin going on this needn't be one of them.
But your dead right in all your posts, there's nothing extra the housemate has to do nor can the guards do a damn thing about it, so what happens to the remaining tenant?
i take it she cant be evicted?

Heckler · 04-04-2020 12:10am

If shes is giving the appropriate notice and paying what shes is due re her contract what is she doing wrong ? Not up to her to advertise the room. Landlords problem to rent out her room.

Stark · 04-04-2020 12:15am

Ciaranis wrote: »

The head tenant! I'd love to read this law!

My pleasure to make you happy.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/types-of-tenancies-and-agreements/subletting-and-assignment/

What is subletting?
Subletting occurs when a tenant permits another party to lease the rental property that the tenant has leased from the landlord. The tenant then assumes the position of landlord (known as the head tenant) in relation to his or her subtenant. Subletting usually occurs because the tenant has signed a fixed-term lease and wants, for whatever reason, to get out of the lease before it expires. Subletting can only take place with the consent of the landlord.

Heckler · 04-04-2020 12:15am

If you are renting a room to someone within your house, whether you are the homeowner or the head tenant, you have the right to kick them out on the basis that you simply do not wish to live with them.

Stark Where in the **** did you pick up this absolute nonsense ? Try that with a tenant whos not willing to move. Get back to me in 4 years. "I don't like them boohoo"

Ciaranis · 04-04-2020 12:17am

tom1ie wrote:

ah listen, don't be a bollox, keep it civil with no attitude! so many threads with bitchin going on this needn't be one of them. But your dead right in all your posts, there's nothing extra the housemate has to do nor can the guards do a damn thing about it, so what happens to the remaining tenant? i take it she cant be evicted?

"Don't be a bollox," he says while advising others to keep it civil.

Stark · 04-04-2020 12:22am

Heckler wrote: »

If you are renting a room to someone within your house, whether you are the homeowner or the head tenant, you have the right to kick them out on the basis that you simply do not wish to live with them.

Stark Where in the **** did you pick up this absolute nonsense ? Try that with a tenant whos not willing to move. Get back to me in 4 years. "I don't like them boohoo"

I didn't say tenant, I said licensee. Totally different rights in law. Since I already posted the links to back this up, how about you post something to back up your position.

Heckler · 04-04-2020 12:26am

Stark wrote: »

I didn't say tenant, I said licensee. Totally different rights in law. Since I already posted the links to back this up, how about you post something to back up your position.

Fair enough. You're right. I was wrong. Read it incorrectly. Apologies.

Ciaranis · 04-04-2020 12:30am

Never apologise for being wrong. This is Boards.

Graham · 04-04-2020 12:31am

Heckler wrote: »

If you are renting a room to someone within your house, whether you are the homeowner or the head tenant, you have the right to kick them out on the basis that you simply do not wish to live with them.

Stark Where in the **** did you pick up this absolute nonsense ? Try that with a tenant whos not willing to move. Get back to me in 4 years. "I don't like them boohoo"

A person in the scenario described would be a licensee, not a tenant.

Such a licensee could apply to become a tenant after 6 months IIRC if they are not sharing with the homeowner.

RTB Guidelines here

Guy:Incognito · 04-04-2020 12:40am

Ciaranis wrote: »

Never apologise for being wrong. This is Boards.

Yeah, just ignore that reply that proves your smart reply wrong, eh Ciaranis

Stark wrote: »

My pleasure to make you happy.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/types-of-tenancies-and-agreements/subletting-and-assignment/

tom1ie · 04-04-2020 12:52am

Ciaranis wrote: »

"Don't be a bollox," he says while advising others to keep it civil.

yes. go on.............

Ciaranis · 04-04-2020 1:03am

tom1ie wrote:

yes. go on.............

Eh?

Canis Lupus · 04-04-2020 1:18am

So what happens when the new person moves in? House isolation for both for two weeks or will each assume the other doesn't have it

Stark · 04-04-2020 1:26am

Canis Lupus wrote: »

So what happens when the new person moves in? House isolation for both for two weeks or will each assume the other doesn't have it

Same situation as sharing with anyone at the moment. Just because no-one in my house has shown symptoms yet, doesn't mean one of us can't pick it up after being to the supermarket or whatever.

04-04-2020 11:42am

Stark wrote: »

This situation depends whether the housemate is a licensee (ie: your sister holds the lease and sublets a room to the housemate) or co-signatory on the lease.

If she's co-signatory on the lease, then she has obligations to continue paying the rent until the lease is finished.

If she's a licensee, then she has no obligations (just as she would have to rights if the sister wanted to kick her out) and is free to leave whenever she wants and it's the sister's responsibility to find another person to sublet to.

Currently in this situation myself as co-signatory. House mate wants to move at the end of the month so currently looking to fill the room. Extra stress in an already stressful time. I'm worried we won't fill it. I could use some advice.

Our yearly lease actually ends at the end of April. Exactly when the housemate wants to move. Does that make a difference? It's a rolling lease. We have no clause in our lease about amount of time given to fill rooms. In the past, people have given lots of notice (sometimes up to 6 months) so we could find the right person so we've never had any hassle. What happens if we don't fill the room? Exiting housemate will not sign the new lease. Are they obliged to keep paying regardless?

tom1ie · 04-04-2020 12:20pm

So luckily enough the LL has decided he will take the hit on the rent.
Decent person tbh.

Stark · 04-04-2020 12:56pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Decent person tbh.

Bootlicker

(joking)

house mate leaving

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