Kitchen Questions

tedimc · 07-10-2016 10:35AM #1

We are about to pull the trigger on our kitchen purchase - so I have a couple of questions and would welcome people's feedback:

Appliances; Any recommendations or warnings about the following brands: Neff, Bauknecht, Miele, Liebherr? Any other brands I'm missing?

Induction hobs; We have been sold on an induction hob as opposed to gas. Are they all they are cracked up to be?

Re-circulation Extractor Fan; specially the ones that rise from the back of the hob. The hob is going in an island and it will be difficult to get the chimney type hood built into the vaulted ceiling overhead. Have MHRV so the vented option is difficult.

Steam or Induction ovens: the latest craze is 2 single ovens side by side. Anyone have a steam or induction oven in addition to a regular one? Worth the investment?

Boiling/Kettle taps; heard mostly good things about these. Quooker is one brand recommended to me and a person told me that they tend to be the best from a water temp perspective (water comes out at 100C). However, there are other, nicer tap options in my opinion. Anyone have a Franke, etc and are happy with it?

Waste disposal - undersink unit. A couple of people seem quite happy with it. Any negative feedback on these units?

Finally, can any Kube Kitchens customers please PM any feedback - good or bad?

Thanks.

murphaph · 07-10-2016 09:55PM

I don't have much to say but just note that miele outsources production of their fridges to Liebherr, which are cheaper if I'm not mistaken.

I personally don't buy into spending 2 or 3 times the money on miele as I don't want to be using the same oven in 20 years and if miele appliances do fail after warranty they can be sodding expensive to fix and you'll feel compelled to fix a very expensive appliance rath than replace it with new. But it's a matter of opinion and nothing more.

I rate IKEA appliances highly. The higher end IKEA stuff is made by Electrolux, so it's AEG or Zanussi stuff, which is certainly mid range but they are prepared to stand over all but the very low end Lagan range with a no quibble 5 year warranty.

Again, I know for a lot of people they like the high end brand names visible on their appliances to add a touch of class to the kitchen. In this case completely debadged IKEA stuff probably won't cut the mustard.

DOCARCH · 08-10-2016 05:53AM

tedimc wrote: »

Waste disposal - undersink unit. A couple of people seem quite happy with it. Any negative feedback on these units?

Watch out for your drains! They have a tendency to cause a build up of debris and cause blockages to drains.

exaisle · 08-10-2016 06:23AM

tedimc wrote: »

Re-circulation Extractor Fan; specially the ones that rise from the back of the hob. The hob is going in an island and it will be difficult to get the chimney type hood built into the vaulted ceiling overhead. Have MHRV so the vented option is difficult.

You'd be well advised to incorporate the hood into the MHR system OR even to vent it to the outside via the ceiling space. If you're cooking steaks, for example, and things get a bit smokey, you'll want to get rid of the smoke rather than just circulate it through a couple of charcoal filters otherwise the smell will linger.

BarneyMc · 08-10-2016 07:02AM

Regarding the appliances sign up to http://www.which.co.uk/ for £1 and you'll find the good, bad and ugly all done for you. Remember to unsubscribe or it will cost you £10/month. Then price around for the model you want - all suppliers should be able to get their hands on any model.

Induction hob - got one myself but not out of the package - high hopes!

Boiling tap - why not just use a kettle? The kitchen worktop might need a hole (our kitchen worktop supplier told us we would have to incorporate one in the quartz if going for one of these). Not worth it in my opinion.

Waste disposal - again why not keep it simple and ignore this.

liamo · 08-10-2016 07:24AM

tedimc wrote: »

Appliances; Any recommendations or warnings about the following brands: Neff, Bauknecht, Miele, Liebherr? Any other brands I'm missing?

We got almost all Neff for our new kitchen 8 years ago. Still delighted with the decision.

Re-circulation Extractor Fan; specially the ones that rise from the back of the hob. The hob is going in an island and it will be difficult to get the chimney type hood built into the vaulted ceiling overhead. Have MHRV so the vented option is difficult.

Like you, we couldn't (easily) get venting to outside so we have a recirculation hood on our cooker. It's not as good as an extractor, but it does work.

Boiling/Kettle taps; heard mostly good things about these. Quooker is one brand recommended to me and a person told me that they tend to be the best from a water temp perspective (water comes out at 100C). However, there are other, nicer tap options in my opinion. Anyone have a Franke, etc and are happy with it?

We have an Insinkerator combo filtered cold/boiling tap unit and it's one of my favourite items in the kitchen.
The water doesn't come out at bang-on 100 degrees (because you'd have to deal with steam and pressure buildup) but at circa 97 degrees it's close enough.
They can go wrong though. We had to change the undersink tank after three years at a cost of €300. Also, the seals in the tap unit are going now so it's leaking on to the counter when in use. The seals can't be bought separately - only a new tap unit. I'm going to have a go at hacking the seals but if I have to buy a new unit I will because I love that unit so much.

Good luck with the kitchen.

Shint0 · 08-10-2016 01:28PM

You are really paying for the fixtures and fittings which are the most important element of the units. If you have any upper units where the doors rise upwards I believe a single hinge mechanism costs in the region of €350 if it ever needed to be replaced but probably wouldn't as they are quite a good piece of engineering. Similarly the pull-out larder units and carousels are quite sturdy.

If you have the option for gas I would go with that above the induction hob. I don't have a gas supply in my house. If I did I would definitely choose it as it is the best heat source for cooking.

tedimc · 09-10-2016 10:10PM

murphaph wrote: »

I don't have much to say but just note that miele outsources production of their fridges to Liebherr, which are cheaper if I'm not mistaken.

Thanks Murphaph - good to know that. I was actually in the Miele showroom at the weekend. The appliances appear to be excellent, but funnily refrigeration in particular seems to be very over-priced. They have a fantastic, large fridge/freezer combo with a wine cooler. 25 Gs.....:eek:

murphaph wrote: »

I personally don't buy into spending 2 or 3 times the money on miele as I don't want to be using the same oven in 20 years and if miele appliances do fail after warranty they can be sodding expensive to fix and you'll feel compelled to fix a very expensive appliance rath than replace it with new. But it's a matter of opinion and nothing more.

I think that's a fair point - and I do agree. However, my logic for looking at the higher end of the scale is purely down to experience of such brands compared to apparent lower end products. For example - my mum put mid range Neff stuff in 15 years ago. Apart from having to replace a element in the fan oven, they are all still working perfectly. Also - they still look relatively modern and new. And my general experience with more mainstream brands has been pretty poor. We had a Whirlpool fridge/freezer - on our 3rd since 2005. A Belling dishwasher - dodgy locking mechanism, 2 pumps and some of the programs don't work. Had to replace a capacitor in a Electrolux dryer, etc. etc.

murphaph wrote: »

I rate IKEA appliances highly. The higher end IKEA stuff is made by Electrolux, so it's AEG or Zanussi stuff, which is certainly mid range but they are prepared to stand over all but the very low end Lagan range with a no quibble 5 year warranty.

Again, I know for a lot of people they like the high end brand names visible on their appliances to add a touch of class to the kitchen. In this case completely debadged IKEA stuff probably won't cut the mustard.

I pretty much ruled out the Ikea stuff since we weren't going with an Ikea kitchen, but didn't consider them on their own. I will look into them - I am a big fan of Ikea in general.

tedimc · 09-10-2016 10:11PM

DOCARCH wrote: »

Watch out for your drains! They have a tendency to cause a build up of debris and cause blockages to drains.

Thanks Docarch - will keep this in mind.

tedimc · 09-10-2016 10:13PM

exaisle wrote: »

You'd be well advised to incorporate the hood into the MHR system OR even to vent it to the outside via the ceiling space. If you're cooking steaks, for example, and things get a bit smokey, you'll want to get rid of the smoke rather than just circulate it through a couple of charcoal filters otherwise the smell will linger.

Thanks - has anyone done this successfully? Do people use a grease trap or how do you avoid gun gunking up the pipework?

tedimc · 09-10-2016 10:20PM

BarneyMc wrote: »

Regarding the appliances sign up to http://www.which.co.uk/ for £1 and you'll find the good, bad and ugly all done for you. Remember to unsubscribe or it will cost you £10/month. Then price around for the model you want - all suppliers should be able to get their hands on any model.

Induction hob - got one myself but not out of the package - high hopes!

Boiling tap - why not just use a kettle? The kitchen worktop might need a hole (our kitchen worktop supplier told us we would have to incorporate one in the quartz if going for one of these). Not worth it in my opinion.

Waste disposal - again why not keep it simple and ignore this.

Good call on Which - must sign up for that. Even at £10/month it could be handy for the next few months!!

To be fair re the boiling taps - everyone that has one loves them. They are instantaneous 100C water, and have a store of 3L plus. One kitchen guy told me that he pushes them on all clients if they can afford it. If they are unsure, he tells them take it and if not happy with it in 3-4 weeks time, he will give them a full refund. He hasn't had any back yet.

The waste disposal is a funny one. I'm sick of having to clear food residue out of the sink - I was opening it would be one less dirty job in the new house. Haven't heard much about them though in general on this side of the Atlantic.

tedimc · 09-10-2016 10:24PM

liamo wrote: »

We got almost all Neff for our new kitchen 8 years ago. Still delighted with the decision.

Like you, we couldn't (easily) get venting to outside so we have a recirculation hood on our cooker. It's not as good as an extractor, but it does work.

We have an Insinkerator combo filtered cold/boiling tap unit and it's one of my favourite items in the kitchen.
The water doesn't come out at bang-on 100 degrees (because you'd have to deal with steam and pressure buildup) but at circa 97 degrees it's close enough.
They can go wrong though. We had to change the undersink tank after three years at a cost of €300. Also, the seals in the tap unit are going now so it's leaking on to the counter when in use. The seals can't be bought separately - only a new tap unit. I'm going to have a go at hacking the seals but if I have to buy a new unit I will because I love that unit so much.

Good luck with the kitchen.

Thanks Liamo. If it is any help - I have heard that some of the other major brands of boiling tap seems to be the market leaders. I did look at the Insinkerator tap in a showroom and did find the tap/safety feature to be a bit dodgy. It could be just abuse it gets in the showroom, but build quality didn't seem to be 100%. If you do change units - perhaps look at some of the others for reference.

tedimc · 09-10-2016 10:28PM

Shint0 wrote: »

You are really paying for the fixtures and fittings which are the most important element of the units. If you have any upper units where the doors rise upwards I believe a single hinge mechanism costs in the region of €350 if it ever needed to be replaced but probably wouldn't as they are quite a good piece of engineering. Similarly the pull-out larder units and carousels are quite sturdy.

If you have the option for gas I would go with that above the induction hob. I don't have a gas supply in my house. If I did I would definitely choose it as it is the best heat source for cooking.

Thanks Shint0.

I'll have to fit gas bottles - as we don't have piped gas. Was going to get a gas dryer anyway, so not an issue.

drunkmonkey · 09-10-2016 10:30PM

tedimc wrote: »

Waste disposal - undersink unit. A couple of people seem quite happy with it. Any negative feedback on these units?

Finally, can any Kube Kitchens customers please PM any feedback - good or bad?

Thanks.

Had a very good experience with Kube, they really went through everything, must have spent a full day in there designing it once we decided it was a kube kitchen, the quality of the cabinets is brilliant, one of the kids was sitting in one of the large plate drawers the other day while his brother pushed him in and out, they really are sturdy.

We didn't get any of the appliances off them, we went with Siemens IQ700 range throughout, think the microwave is IQ500, They are expensive but I done a lot of shopping around for them at the time and it was a shop wexford that beat everyone I tried. Again it's rock solid stuff and really adds a top notch finish to the kitchen. If your interested in the siemens stuff send me a pm and i'll send you on details of what we paid. The IQ 700 ovens will turn you into a master chef and look good doing it.

As for the garbage disposal, best thing ever. I detest the smell of bins. We went with an Inskerator Evo 200, the price was crazy for them in Ireland, we got it from a plumbing company on Amazon UK and saved a lot on it. Warranty and all that still stands here as we needed a call out after a screw managed to get in it, I think someone swept up some food off the floor and tipped it into it, If it happened again and it has I was able to fix it myself. We put all food waste down it, full chickens, t-bone steaks, it munches them all. Just make sure there's not a grease trap fitted at your house or it'll be full in a few days, wouldn't advise on if you have, or else bypass the trap.

tedimc · 09-10-2016 10:56PM

Thanks Drunkmonkey - great to hear some positive feedback on them.

Yeah - I liked the look of the Siemens stuff too, but haven't browsed the catalogue or anything yet. I'll send a PM to request the details for the crowd in Wexford.

drunkmonkey · 09-10-2016 11:03PM

tedimc wrote: »

Thanks Drunkmonkey - great to hear some positive feedback on them.

Yeah - I liked the look of the Siemens stuff too, but haven't browsed the catalogue or anything yet. I'll send a PM to request the details for the crowd in Wexford.

Yea no bother,

This is our oven, it's been replaced by a newer model with a colour screen last year, but the cooking functions on it are brilliant, I haven't cooked something wrong yet. Once you know the weight it does everything for you to perfection.

Worth a watch..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4j_eNK3JDA

MightyMunster · 10-10-2016 09:13PM

Bosch and Siemens is a joint venture for home appliances so no difference in quality between them. They also make Neff, since 1982. So you're really paying a premium for the name for Neff.
I've a Nobilia kitchen (think that's what Kube supply) and it's great quality, highly recommend all drawers under counter height. My parents have one too and are also very happy with it.

tedimc · 10-10-2016 10:54PM

Thanks MightyMunster - I suspected Siemens & Neff were the same outfit, I noticed that their Dishwasher seem very similar.

Would Neff be classed as the more premium brand of the three? Off DrunkMonkey's feedback I had a good look at Siemens earlier - very impressed I must say.

I'll look into Nobilia, all I know is that they sell a German brand. Did you purchase the units through someone else?

drunkmonkey · 10-10-2016 11:20PM

The Kube kitchens are German as well. They make them there once you put in your order. Any of the Irish stuff just didn't feel as solid, went into a few places with irish made kitchens and if you went at them hard enough you could damage them.

Did you check out the projector on the iq700 dishwasher. :cool:

Alucan · 10-10-2016 11:27PM

If you like cooking at all don't get an induction hob the are awful.I would go with gas personally but anything over induction

murphaph · 10-10-2016 11:27PM

Nobilia is generally considered to be around the same quality level as IKEA over here. IKEA will probably be cheaper in Ireland but that's just my assumption.

IKEA offers something others don't....the Metod system is new so you'll be able to get doors and drawers for it for probably the next 15 years. This allows you to change your kitchen to suit your needs over time. IKEA drawers and hinges are made by Blum of Austria. I believe Nobilia uses Hettich, which is of comparable quality.

tedimc · 10-10-2016 11:42PM

Alucan wrote: »

If you like cooking at all don't get an induction hob the are awful.I would go with gas personally but anything over induction

Really? A lot of people are swearing by them. Even a lot of chefs are moving away from Gas towards induction.

The wife was at a cookery class in Nevin Maguires cookery school and it had all induction hobs. The man himself said they were the best thing since sliced bread......

drunkmonkey · 11-10-2016 12:01AM

Here's 2 cowboy steaks on the induction hob https://s31.postimg.org/r706jgqaj/image.jpg
They tasted might fine, can't see what much else gas could bring to the table, we were gong to go 50/50 half induction and half gas but just went full induction in the end. You can get add ons like the barbecue one above and there's also a teppanyaki plate for the hob as well it's a lot cheaper than going for the domino options in each. Gives you a lot of cooking options.

BoardsMember · 11-10-2016 03:27PM

Cleaning gas is a pain in the ass, next one we get will be induction, heard only good things.

drunkmonkey · 11-10-2016 07:12PM

BoardsMember wrote: »

Cleaning gas is a pain in the ass, next one we get will be induction, heard only good things.

Also grease traps, non self cleaning ovens and food waste bins...

Design it so it's as maintenance and smell free as possible...

tedimc · 11-10-2016 08:50PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Also grease traps, non self cleaning ovens and food waste bins...

on that note - is the marketing guff around the self cleaning true? How does the Siemens version work out?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Design it so it's as maintenance and smell free as possible...

+1 to that.........

BoardsMember · 12-10-2016 08:23AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

BoardsMember wrote: »

Cleaning gas is a pain in the ass, next one we get will be induction, heard only good things.

Also grease traps, non self cleaning ovens and food waste bins...

Design it so it's as maintenance and smell free as possible...

Can you add info/recommendations on how best to achieve this please?

db · 12-10-2016 08:45AM

tedimc wrote: »

Waste disposal - undersink unit. A couple of people seem quite happy with it. Any negative feedback on these units?

I had an insinkerator waste disposal previously and I wouldn't recommend it. It's great at the start and you dump everything down it but then you start to get blockages outside and you find rice, eggshells, bits of old chicken bones and everything else you stuck down it and forgot about. Any grease that goes down it will bind to the food waste and congeal making it worse. If you have a septic tank it will be even worse than mains sewerage as you will just be sending everything that goes down the sink into the tank.

drunkmonkey · 12-10-2016 09:40AM

tedimc wrote: »

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Also grease traps, non self cleaning ovens and food waste bins...

on that note - is the marketing guff around the self cleaning true? How does the Siemens version work out?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Design it so it's as maintenance and smell free as possible...

+1 to that.........

Can't speak for other brands but assume there all the same but the self cleaning bit works great, it is kinda smokey (not big clouds or anything but you wouldn't want to be in the kitchen when your doing it, we do it before going to bed and just Hoover out the dust from the oven that's left in the morning.
It's doesn't clean the racks and you need to make sure to take out the rack holders as well when doing it.
It's an extra with ovens but I'd recommend telescopic rack holders for the oven.

My experience with the inskerator has been the opposite to op, it's not clogging our pipes, we recently had to put in a new soakage pit and there was no trace of any food when we were cleaning out the system, something isn't working right if your finding bones and egg shells the evo200 we have turns everything to dust I don't see how a bone could get through it's not possible. It couldn't fit out unless it was turned to dust. Put your head in one when you see one next, you'll see it's impossible.

drunkmonkey · 12-10-2016 09:44AM

There's the inside, there's absolutely no where for a bone let alone an egg shells to get out.. https://s12.postimg.org/9peqtmoq5/IMG_8327.jpg

Dardania · 12-10-2016 10:04AM

With the topic of insincterator - I have a friend who swears by it, however...most local authorities insist you have a brown waste bin for compostable stuff. I would be hesitant to fit an insincterator, and have to pay for a compostable bin sitting idly by.

RE the earlier question about self cleaning ovens - they are wonderful. Fitted one a few years ago in our house, and even aside from the self cleaning function (which is great) they tend to get up to temp during normal cookign that bit quicker, as they have better insulation as required by the self cleaning function.

With the boiling tap...that might be a wider question that you need to think about in context of how you're doing normal hot water for your house. As you may find yourself using the hot water for non tea related functions. And if you have e.g. solar water heating or a combi boiler where normal hot water is easy...the boiling tap may be less justifiable.

On the ease of use & maintenance topic...cannot agree more with the other posters on this. Questions such as where will sockets be, where will valves be, do you need to remove trim to access appliances when they inevitably break...

Lighting considered in the design?

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